it has a nice infographic on how slack handles notifications
Kev
If we care about an example being valid XML without annotation (and I'm not sure that we do, but maybe), <!-- Client --> <!-- Server --> work.
jonasw
<https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/0*PV_09olld6K1l8jQ.> for those who don’t like javascript (yes, the dot is part of the URL)
Ge0rG
And if we can get the (whatever component does the styling) to special-color "client:" and "server:" at the highest level, it'd be great.
jonasw
Kev, the text in front of the elements is valid XML, too ;-)
Kev
Well, yes, that's true.
Ge0rG
jonasw: are you saying that any text is valid XML?
jonasw
Ge0rG, no
Kev
But only if you wrap it all.
jonasw
Kev, you have to do that anyways when you have multiple elements
intosi
Kev: valid XML, sure. Valid XMPP, no :)
Ge0rG
phew. I was frightened for a moment.
Kev
jonasw: Yes, true.
jonasw
intosi, comments wouldn’t be valid XMPP either
Kev
intosi: Sure, but ... I don't think we're going to validate XMPP in the examples.
jonasw
not that strictly at least. I do have a prototype of a thing which validates the examples against the respective XML schemas
Ge0rG
Kev: but I was just going to copy-paste all XEP examples into my client's XML console!
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Kev
Ge0rG: I wouldn't try to stop you :)
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Kev
jonasw: That Slack article is very much the direction I've been pushing with XMPP, too.
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Kev
Having servers know about unread counts and understand notifications.
Ge0rG
Let's make XMPP a Slack clone!
Ge0rG
Kev: but the meta data! It's getting even more! And worse!
Kev
Ge0rG: Or, let's use good ideas even if other people have them too (after us, in this case).
Ge0rGis now going to remodel the yaxim account creation flow into entering a display name and auto-slugifying that into a JID
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flow
> Ge0rG> Yes. It's better to have an exchange in one example than in two or four
flow
Not sure, the examples in RFC 6120 § 9 a very readable without using one big example block
Ge0rG
flow: btw... did you want to offer me your help in bringing smack4 into yaxim, again? :)
flow
Ge0rG, No, I didn't want to offer my help, I did offer my help
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flow
and that offer still stands
Ge0rG
flow: the markup in https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#examples is rather minimal, the one in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html#activation is rather distracting imho
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flow
Ge0rG, yes, but that is a layout issue, maybe we need to invent an additinal <example/> thingy for sequences
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edhelas
> This application can consume between ~130MB (p10) and ~960MB (p99) of memory depending on team activity and UI state.
edhelas
damn
flow
my point is that the thing that example encloses should be just XMPP XML, and not surrounding annotations. Using XML comments for annotations doesn't appeal to me too, because it may give the impression that XMPP allows them
jonasw
hm
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flow
IIRC Link Mauve (?) worked on validating examples with the provided schema. I'd really like to see that happen, as it helps finding issues in the examples *and* the schema
jonasw
we can do that already
jonasw
source: I have code which does it
flow
and one precondition would probably be that the, possibly new to be created, <examples-foo/> thing is as pure as possible
flow
jonasw, is it part of your xeplint?
jonasw
yes
jonasw
or at least of an earlier version
jonasw
I think the current one doesn’t do it yet
flow
that's great, how many false negatives to you get?
jonasw
the issue is that many included schemas aren’t available
jonasw
so validation breaks very easily
flow
"aren't available"?
jonasw
404
flow
are those schemas not included in the XEP?
jonasw
the ones defined by the XEP are, but sometimes they refer to other XEP’s schemas
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flow
jonasw, ahh, but then it's not really a 404 if the other XEP is availble, isn't it? :)
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jonasw
flow, it is, because the schema is included via an HTTP url
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jonasw
guessing from which XEP the included schema originates is impossible without scanning over all XEPs
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MattJ
Kev, and do you have a proposol on how to get anything nearly as complex as that graph standardized and configurable?
Kev
Not yet. My first interest is solving the unread problem, and then moving on to notifications.
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Kev
FWIW, a lot of it revolves around attaching references to messages, I think.
Kev
I think if we craft references sensibly, we can at least make mentions and things easier for a server to process.
jonasw
Kev, is there any hope that my feedback gets incorporated into References?
Kev
I've not touched References in a while, sorry. If you gave feedback and I've not addressed it, it should still be in my XSF TODO folder.
Kev
Edwin's got the lead of References updates at the moment.
jonasw
2018-03-12 is the date of my email, if that helps
Kev
Although I keep giving him other stuff to do :)
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MattJ
Is the "unread problem" blocking bind2?
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Kev
No, I don't think so.
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Ge0rG
do we have an agenda?
Ge0rG
I'd like to add a proto XEP
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Dave Cridland
Ge0rG, We do; I've just not quite sent it yet. What's the ProtoXEP you wanted?
Ge0rG
Dave Cridland: I need to submit it yet.
jonasw
synopsis?
Dave Cridland
Ge0rG, Hurry!
jonasw
Dave Cridland, do you have file sharing notifications on your list?
Dave Cridland
jonasw, "fsn" and #681.
Bunneh
jonasw: XEP-0050: Remove the status attribute from the request #681
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/681
Ge0rG
> XEP-xxxx: Schrödinger's Chat
> This protocol extension for XEP-0045 Multi User Chat allows clients to check whether they are still joined to a chatroom.
jonasw
Dave Cridland, #682
Bunneh
Dave Cridland: XEP-0065, XEP-0363: Document exposing the service on the user’s domain #682
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/682
Dave Cridland
I love the name.
Ge0rG
It's been the name of the XMPP off-topic MUC for a while now.
jonasw
Dave Cridland, the vote on #672 is missing from your spreadsheet of doom
Bunneh
Dave Cridland: XEP-0059: Add 'exact(-index)' attribute to RSM's <count/> and <first/> #672
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/672
jonasw
(you probably know that, but I thought I’d mention it anyways)
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Dave Cridland
Ted Sterr actually put the voting stuff into a CSV and sent it to me to paste in. I need to do that (maybe Real Soon Now)
Dave Cridland: ETA is some time between 30 and 55mins from now. You could also wait until tomorrow morning and tell Kev to complain to me about it.
Dave Cridland
Well, got the agenda item all written up ready, just got to hit sent when it's done.
Ge0rG
That's great preparation.
Dave Cridland
For once.
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jonasw
Ge0rG, Dave Cridland, check your (standards@) inboxes, the ProtoXEP is now at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-selfping.html
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Dave Cridland
Agenda launched!
jonasw
impact in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
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Ge0rG
Damn, my mobile email client has reset itself.
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SamWhitedis looking forward to reading it, but as amusing as the title is probably won't +1 until there's a descriptive title that actually tells me what the XEP does.
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Ge0rG
SamWhited: "MUC Self Ping" is way too unexciting
SamWhited
Good. I like unexciting.
SamWhited
(Schrödinger's Chat is very amusing though; maybe that could be an april fools XEP or something)
Zash
MattJ: What was the term you pointed out in the ActivityPub spec?
Zash
SamWhited: Boring specs are out
Zash
> cool linked data
Zash
Cool!
MattJ
Standards are slipping
Zash
If it doesn't fit in 140 characters then it's too long and complicated!!11
That one tells you what it does in a clear way before making a joke, at least.
Ge0rG
So we can settle on "MUC Self Ping (Schrödinger's Chat)"?
Ge0rG
I'd rather prefer it to be the other way round
Zash
Schrödinger's chat (Or, how I learned to stop worrying and self-ping in MUCs)
MattJ
This one weird trick...
Ge0rG
Zash [18:56]:
> Schrödinger's chat (Or, how I learned to stop worrying and self-ping in MUCs)
👍
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martin
Funn, just a few days ago I exectly implemented self ping in a bot I wrote.
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Ge0rG
martin: did you do everything right?
martin
Hope so. I send ping to muc participant and check for result IQ with the correct ID. At least it works. Have not yet looked at your proposal in detail.
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martin
Ge0rG: uh, your proposal says server reply is type 'get'. I always got 'result' or 'cancel'.
martin
I looked at 0199 so I did it this way.
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Ge0rG
martin: sorry, copy & paste error in the example
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Ge0rG
martin: no, wait. It's not the response, it's the reflection