jonaswit has a nice infographic on how slack handles notifications
KevIf we care about an example being valid XML without annotation (and I'm not sure that we do, but maybe), <!-- Client --> <!-- Server --> work.
jonasw<https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/0*PV_09olld6K1l8jQ.> for those who don’t like javascript (yes, the dot is part of the URL)
Ge0rGAnd if we can get the (whatever component does the styling) to special-color "client:" and "server:" at the highest level, it'd be great.
jonaswKev, the text in front of the elements is valid XML, too ;-)
KevWell, yes, that's true.
Ge0rGjonasw: are you saying that any text is valid XML?
jonaswGe0rG, no
KevBut only if you wrap it all.
jonaswKev, you have to do that anyways when you have multiple elements
intosiKev: valid XML, sure. Valid XMPP, no :)
Ge0rGphew. I was frightened for a moment.
Kevjonasw: Yes, true.
jonaswintosi, comments wouldn’t be valid XMPP either
Kevintosi: Sure, but ... I don't think we're going to validate XMPP in the examples.
jonaswnot that strictly at least. I do have a prototype of a thing which validates the examples against the respective XML schemas
Ge0rGKev: but I was just going to copy-paste all XEP examples into my client's XML console!
lskdjfhas joined
Zashhas left
KevGe0rG: I wouldn't try to stop you :)
kasper.dementhas joined
Alexhas left
Kevjonasw: That Slack article is very much the direction I've been pushing with XMPP, too.
Alexhas joined
KevHaving servers know about unread counts and understand notifications.
Ge0rGLet's make XMPP a Slack clone!
Ge0rGKev: but the meta data! It's getting even more! And worse!
KevGe0rG: Or, let's use good ideas even if other people have them too (after us, in this case).
Ge0rGis now going to remodel the yaxim account creation flow into entering a display name and auto-slugifying that into a JID
Zashhas left
flow> Ge0rG> Yes. It's better to have an exchange in one example than in two or four
flowNot sure, the examples in RFC 6120 § 9 a very readable without using one big example block
Ge0rGflow: btw... did you want to offer me your help in bringing smack4 into yaxim, again? :)
flowGe0rG, No, I didn't want to offer my help, I did offer my help
404.cityhas joined
flowand that offer still stands
Ge0rGflow: the markup in https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#examples is rather minimal, the one in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html#activation is rather distracting imho
Valerianhas left
Valerianhas joined
flowGe0rG, yes, but that is a layout issue, maybe we need to invent an additinal <example/> thingy for sequences
rishiraj22has joined
edhelas> This application can consume between ~130MB (p10) and ~960MB (p99) of memory depending on team activity and UI state.
edhelasdamn
flowmy point is that the thing that example encloses should be just XMPP XML, and not surrounding annotations. Using XML comments for annotations doesn't appeal to me too, because it may give the impression that XMPP allows them
jonaswhm
kasper.dementhas joined
flowIIRC Link Mauve (?) worked on validating examples with the provided schema. I'd really like to see that happen, as it helps finding issues in the examples *and* the schema
jonaswwe can do that already
jonaswsource: I have code which does it
flowand one precondition would probably be that the, possibly new to be created, <examples-foo/> thing is as pure as possible
flowjonasw, is it part of your xeplint?
jonaswyes
jonaswor at least of an earlier version
jonaswI think the current one doesn’t do it yet
flowthat's great, how many false negatives to you get?
jonaswthe issue is that many included schemas aren’t available
jonaswso validation breaks very easily
flow"aren't available"?
jonasw404
floware those schemas not included in the XEP?
jonaswthe ones defined by the XEP are, but sometimes they refer to other XEP’s schemas
jubalhhas left
jubalhhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
404.cityhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
flowjonasw, ahh, but then it's not really a 404 if the other XEP is availble, isn't it? :)
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
jonaswflow, it is, because the schema is included via an HTTP url
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
jonaswguessing from which XEP the included schema originates is impossible without scanning over all XEPs
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
nycohas joined
Alexhas left
MattJKev, and do you have a proposol on how to get anything nearly as complex as that graph standardized and configurable?
KevNot yet. My first interest is solving the unread problem, and then moving on to notifications.
rionhas left
KevFWIW, a lot of it revolves around attaching references to messages, I think.
KevI think if we craft references sensibly, we can at least make mentions and things easier for a server to process.
jonaswKev, is there any hope that my feedback gets incorporated into References?
KevI've not touched References in a while, sorry. If you gave feedback and I've not addressed it, it should still be in my XSF TODO folder.
KevEdwin's got the lead of References updates at the moment.
jonasw2018-03-12 is the date of my email, if that helps
KevAlthough I keep giving him other stuff to do :)
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
MattJIs the "unread problem" blocking bind2?
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
KevNo, I don't think so.
lskdjfhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
nycohas left
blablahas left
blablahas joined
Valerianhas left
karphas left
karphas joined
Valerianhas joined
lumihas joined
kasper.dementhas left
nycohas joined
Tobiashas joined
lskdjfhas left
lskdjfhas left
Tobiashas joined
404.cityhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
lskdjfhas joined
Zashhas left
alacerhas left
tuxhas joined
blablahas joined
kasper.dementhas left
alacerhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
blablahas joined
rishiraj22has left
ThibGhas left
ThibGhas joined
nycohas left
kasper.dementhas joined
jubalhhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
kasper.dementhas left
Valerianhas left
Valerianhas joined
Valerianhas left
Valerianhas joined
Valerianhas left
Valerianhas joined
Valerianhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
jubalhhas joined
doshas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
mrdoctorwhohas joined
404.cityhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
Valerianhas joined
lnjhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
muppethhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
jerehas joined
Dave Cridlandhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Guushas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
Valerianhas left
Valerianhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
Dave Cridlandhas left
Dave Cridlandhas left
Dave Cridlandhas left
Dave Cridlandhas left
Dave Cridlandhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
matlaghas left
Dave Cridlandhas left
Guushas left
Guushas joined
vanitasvitaehas joined
lskdjfhas left
j.rhas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
rishiraj22has left
kasper.dementhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
lumihas joined
Valerianhas left
kasper.dementhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
Alexhas left
kasper.dementhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
jjrhhas left
la|r|mahas left
la|r|mahas joined
Ge0rGhas left
kasper.dementhas left
j.rhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
Alexhas left
Alexhas joined
lnjhas joined
Valerianhas joined
alacerhas left
alacerhas joined
lumihas joined
Zashhas left
Ge0rGhas left
j.rhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
kasper.dementhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
karphas left
karphas joined
Ge0rGhas joined
kasper.dementhas left
Syndacehas left
Syndacehas joined
lnjhas left
Kevhas left
Ge0rGhas left
lnjhas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
mimi89999has joined
404.cityhas joined
Ge0rGhas left
Ge0rGhas left
j.rhas left
j.rhas joined
doshas left
vanitasvitaehas left
Ge0rGhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
tuxhas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
Ge0rGhas left
andrey.ghas left
jubalhhas joined
bigoukunhas joined
andyhas left
Alexhas left
lumihas joined
Bigouhas joined
Bigouhas left
Bigouhas joined
lnjhas left
Bigouhas left
mikaelahas left
mikaelahas joined
Alexhas joined
jubalhhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
lorddavidiiihas left
vanitasvitaehas left
alacerhas left
Bigouhas joined
Bigouhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas left
Valerianhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
Ge0rGhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
lskdjfhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
lskdjfhas left
bigoukunhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas left
jjrhhas left
andrey.ghas joined
vanitasvitaehas left
kasper.dementhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
lskdjfhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
doshas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
jubalhhas joined
jubalhhas joined
Alexhas left
Ge0rGhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
winfriedhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Ge0rGhas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
404.cityhas left
kasper.dementhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
jjrhhas left
jjrhhas left
blablahas left
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
jubalhhas joined
kasper.dementhas left
doshas left
kasper.dementhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
tuxhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
marchas joined
Zashhas left
Ge0rGdo we have an agenda?
Ge0rGI'd like to add a proto XEP
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
lovetoxhas joined
j.rhas joined
lnjhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
j.rhas joined
kasper.dementhas joined
Nekithas joined
Dave CridlandGe0rG, We do; I've just not quite sent it yet. What's the ProtoXEP you wanted?
Ge0rGDave Cridland: I need to submit it yet.
jonaswsynopsis?
Dave CridlandGe0rG, Hurry!
jonaswDave Cridland, do you have file sharing notifications on your list?
Dave Cridlandjonasw, "fsn" and #681.
Bunnehjonasw: XEP-0050: Remove the status attribute from the request #681
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/681
Ge0rG> XEP-xxxx: Schrödinger's Chat
> This protocol extension for XEP-0045 Multi User Chat allows clients to check whether they are still joined to a chatroom.
jonaswDave Cridland, #682
BunnehDave Cridland: XEP-0065, XEP-0363: Document exposing the service on the user’s domain #682
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/682
Dave CridlandI love the name.
Ge0rGIt's been the name of the XMPP off-topic MUC for a while now.
jonaswDave Cridland, the vote on #672 is missing from your spreadsheet of doom
BunnehDave Cridland: XEP-0059: Add 'exact(-index)' attribute to RSM's <count/> and <first/> #672
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/672
jonasw(you probably know that, but I thought I’d mention it anyways)
Alexhas joined
Dave CridlandTed Sterr actually put the voting stuff into a CSV and sent it to me to paste in. I need to do that (maybe Real Soon Now)
jonaswawesome
jonaswcan I subscribe to that?
jonaswwould be useful to keep the pull requests clean
Dave Cridlandjonasw, It's public; let me dig out the link.
Dave Cridlandjonasw, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AZ-Sna6OiRG--b-mJMKv3XXfrn3Nehm0kAtlyJvImL0/edit?usp=sharing
jonaswI know your spreadsheet (I have it bookmarked, even), but the CSV service from Ted would be good too :)
jonaswalso, was #664 discussed?
Bunnehjonasw: XEP-0045: Add implementation note about {jabber:x:conference}x payload #664
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/664
Dave Cridlandjonasw, Oh. I don't think it's a *service* as such...
jonaswoh, it was
jonaswtotally missed that all were +1 except for the typo :)
jonaswMattJ, no, I don’t need CSV specifically. I had the impression that Ted had some updated data which isn’t in that document yet
Dave Cridlandjonasw, I'll put that in now. Sadly doesn't cut/paste.
Dave Cridlandjonasw, If you want edit rights to the sheet, though, just ask.
jonaswif I were able to follow the council meetings closely enough to do that, I’d be taking minutes and/or not need that sheet at all, unfortunately :(
lnjhas left
kasper.dementhas joined
Dave CridlandGe0rG, How imminent in that ProtoXEP?✎
Dave CridlandGe0rG, How imminent is that ProtoXEP? ✏
kasper.dementhas joined
Ge0rGDave Cridland: it's 75% ready.
Ge0rGDave Cridland: if you put it on the agenda, I'll get it to the editor within the next 2h
la|r|mahas left
la|r|mahas joined
jonaswthe editor can’t promise to manage it to get it on the website and emailed today unless there is a PR before 18:30✎
jonaswthe editor can’t promise to manage it to get it on the website and emailed today unless there is a PR before 18:30 CEST ✏
jonaswbut I’ll do my best
Dave Cridlandhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
j.rhas joined
j.rhas joined
Ge0rGjonasw: 18:30, okay.
Dave Cridlandhas left
Dave CridlandGe0rG, I can't send the agenda out with a protoxep on it that's not been announced. Don't rush it - we'll do it next week if not this.
Ge0rGDave Cridland: I don't believe into those delays, and I'm going on holiday in three weeks.
Dave CridlandWell, I'll hold off as long as possible.
lorddavidiiihas joined
jonaswDave Cridland, what’s your limit for delaying the agenda?
Dave CridlandWell, I (try to) send it out 24 hours in advance, which was 26 minutes ago. :-)
Dave CridlandBut in practise, Kev only starts complaining if it's not out by tomorrow morning.
KevAnd Kev's the only person who ever complains.
Dave CridlandI didn't say that.
Dave CridlandHinted, very strongly, but didn't actually say...
KevWhich might, disappointingly, mean Kev's the only person who puts aside time to review the agendums before each meeting.
lnjhas joined
ThibGhas joined
ThibGhas joined
Ge0rGI try to take aside the time. I'm just too polite to complain.
Ge0rGDave Cridland: ETA is some time between 30 and 55mins from now. You could also wait until tomorrow morning and tell Kev to complain to me about it.
Dave CridlandWell, got the agenda item all written up ready, just got to hit sent when it's done.
Ge0rGThat's great preparation.
Dave CridlandFor once.
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
jjrhhas left
waqashas left
kasper.dementhas joined
blablahas joined
blablahas joined
martinhas joined
marchas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
kasper.dementhas left
jonaswGe0rG, Dave Cridland, check your (standards@) inboxes, the ProtoXEP is now at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-selfping.html
waqashas joined
Dave CridlandAgenda launched!
jonaswimpact in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
alacerhas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Ge0rGDamn, my mobile email client has reset itself.
Alexhas left
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
muppethhas joined
Guushas left
muppethhas joined
Guushas joined
Dave Cridlandhas left
SamWhitedis looking forward to reading it, but as amusing as the title is probably won't +1 until there's a descriptive title that actually tells me what the XEP does.
Tobiashas left
Tobiashas joined
404.cityhas left
marchas left
Ge0rGSamWhited: "MUC Self Ping" is way too unexciting
SamWhitedGood. I like unexciting.
SamWhited(Schrödinger's Chat is very amusing though; maybe that could be an april fools XEP or something)
ZashMattJ: What was the term you pointed out in the ActivityPub spec?
ZashSamWhited: Boring specs are out
Zash> cool linked data
ZashCool!
MattJStandards are slipping
ZashIf it doesn't fit in 140 characters then it's too long and complicated!!11
SamWhitedThat one tells you what it does in a clear way before making a joke, at least.
Ge0rGSo we can settle on "MUC Self Ping (Schrödinger's Chat)"?
Ge0rGI'd rather prefer it to be the other way round
ZashSchrödinger's chat (Or, how I learned to stop worrying and self-ping in MUCs)
MattJThis one weird trick...
Ge0rGZash [18:56]:
> Schrödinger's chat (Or, how I learned to stop worrying and self-ping in MUCs)
👍
Dave Cridlandhas left
martinFunn, just a few days ago I exectly implemented self ping in a bot I wrote.
Dave Cridlandhas left
Ge0rGmartin: did you do everything right?
martinHope so. I send ping to muc participant and check for result IQ with the correct ID. At least it works. Have not yet looked at your proposal in detail.
intosihas left
intosihas joined
intosihas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
martinGe0rG: uh, your proposal says server reply is type 'get'. I always got 'result' or 'cancel'.
martinI looked at 0199 so I did it this way.
Guushas left
Guushas joined
valohas joined
Ge0rGmartin: sorry, copy & paste error in the example
Kevhas left
Ge0rGmartin: no, wait. It's not the response, it's the reflection