XSF Discussion - 2018-08-07

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05:45:53 flow What is the rationle behind having xep368 throwing xmpp and xmpps SRV RRs into the same bucket anyway?
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06:42:10 edhelas would it be possible to tune RSM to be able to retrieve content simply using page number and count ?
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06:46:50 jonasw edhelas, by rewriting it to be something completely different, yeah
06:47:04 jonasw (not saying that this wouldn’t be useful in some cases)
06:47:16 jonasw hm
06:47:38 jonasw edhelas, or, if a service offers this, it could have a query mode where <after/> and <before/> refer to indices instead of keys
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06:48:04 jonasw actually nevermind
06:48:07 jonasw edhelas, what is wrong with: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0059.html#jump
06:48:11 jonasw that should be doing exactly what you want
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06:48:22 jonasw ~~multiply page size with number of page you want and you’re good to go~~ ✎
06:48:34 jonasw multiply page size with number of page you want to calculate the index and you’re good to go ✏
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07:02:51 flow jonasw, what if a service choose to user a smaller page size as requested?
07:03:15 flow or is the page size locked in at size point?
07:04:49 jonasw flow, you can then request more pages until you’ve got the amount of items you want
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07:05:02 jonasw imagine a web view with a simple page number pagination
07:05:25 jonasw if the user chooses 100 items per page, but the service only provides 20, you simply have to fire 5 queries to fill the view page
07:05:51 jonasw so first RSM query woudl be with index=100*pagenumber, the subsequent four would be with <after/> based on the results of the respective previous query
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07:27:20 Holger Index support is optional though (and typically expensive).
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07:33:22 jonasw yupp
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07:46:11 edhelas jonasw "simply have to query", well it's not that simple
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07:46:45 edhelas this means that you kinda have to cache the items while their coming, be sure that no new items came in between
07:47:15 edhelas having everything ready to handle the append of items, update the previous/next button to ensure that you can navigate to the other pages
07:47:57 edhelas and also you never know in advance what the server config is, so I cannot "prepare" my UI to request 25 items, the server can return 15 and I have to change my plans
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07:52:13 flow edhelas, why not prepare the UI once you know how many items the page yielded?
07:52:33 flow after all, the query itself could fail too
07:55:05 edhelas so each time a user request a page, I need a first round to check then request the articles :)
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07:57:58 flow edhelas, I was thinking more of: user action causes a new page request, issue the query, gather results, prepare UI
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15:16:40 edhelas flow I have to see how I can refactor my flow to handle that more properly indeed
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15:17:41 edhelas also I have to check how XMPP servers are handling that, ejabberd had RSM bugs a few months ago still, and I don't know how if Prosody and the others are implementing RSM
15:18:05 edhelas a nice compliance test would also be really awesome to build
15:18:16 jonasw the aioxmpp test suite starts to become something like that
15:18:28 edhelas publish 100 items, request them in many different way to see if they are consistant
15:19:13 Ge0rG publish a message archive, join a MIX, check if history replay works
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19:18:17 edhelas disco items for a pubsub node with RSM, what do you think about it ?
19:18:31 edhelas or for any services basically
19:20:17 jonasw edhelas, isn’t that even a suggestion in XEP-0059?
19:20:23 jonasw makes sense to have
19:20:55 edhelas then ordering is also important
19:21:14 edhelas I'd like to ensure for Pubsub to disco the items based on the most recent first
19:21:25 edhelas (then I don't have to resolve the payload each time)
19:21:28 jonasw define most recent
19:21:43 jonasw most rcent isn’t a suitable key for RSM
19:21:46 edhelas well based of the "recent" definition in 0060 :p
19:22:02 edhelas https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent
19:22:09 jonasw an RSM key (for use with <before/> and <after/>) must be an immutable property of the items which are enumerated
19:22:22 jonasw edhelas, eh, that’s for a node, not for a service
19:22:57 edhelas yes but the disco#items of a pubsub node should behave the same as a service afaik
19:23:30 edhelas or we have to specify that for a service it behave in a specific manner, alphabetically for example
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19:24:03 edhelas but the XMPP server need to order by something before doing the limit/offset (for a SQL database)
19:24:33 edhelas and this need to be consistent between the XMPP servers, if not I can't rely on using disco#items with RSM in my client
19:25:05 edhelas (except by requesting everything and order the result locally…)
19:26:32 jonasw that’s what you have to do anyways
19:26:55 jonasw because in very few cases your users will want to sort by the name (as in, the @node value, not the @name) of the node
19:27:33 edhelas pubsub nodes can have hundreds of items, conference services thousands of rooms
19:27:39 jonasw yes
19:27:47 jonasw and sorting with RSM can only happen by primary keys
19:27:53 edhelas and the info is actually available on the xmpp server to sort a bit the things
19:27:56 jonasw (or unique, immutable keys at least)
19:28:12 jonasw ~~or it is going to be rather expensive~~ ✎
19:28:27 jonasw  ✏
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