XSF Discussion - 2018-08-09

Thanks for sharing pep. I will take a look

meh videos

my thought exactly

I guess it's more 'sound' than video :)

But I understand

I’d love to skim it to gauge applicability/interest :(

jonasw: so much negativity ;)

jonaws, I've got text notes here for you: https://bpaste.net/raw/6e36088b2615

Board o'clock

No MattJ today, nor Nyco. RalphM, Martin?

so finally, I can make it

🙂

seems to be just you and me though

what's the timeout value? 10 minutes? 😉

I'm kinda here, but can't promise I won't need to disappear

And I'm multitasking

so, do we do that meeting?

if MattJ is half here, then we are 2.5, is that a quorum? 😉

Let's skip until next week, unless someone wants to address something urgently

next week, I'll a very constrained bandwidth, I think I'll have to skip it

I'll know better on Wednesday

Guus: I am not the xsf Martin 😉

Martin, I know, but I'm not aware of XSF's Martins other nickname 🙂

nyco, ok, please let us know

doesn't seem that there's much interest in continuing today

yep

thx

until we meet again!

https://drewdevault.com/2018/08/08/Signal.html

okay wat

something is kaputt

I can’t access that, and I can’t access stackoverflow.

jonasw: your internet is b0rked!

yes, but why

it is not DNS

jonasw did you tried HTTP over XMPP ?

edhelas, no

IPv4 seems to be kaputt

IPv6 is the new IPv4

and the v6 of drewdevault.com is kaputt

that explains it

gonna reboot the router thing

odd

also interesting how long I didn’t notice that v4 was b0rked

it's maybe a good thing

> Last time I've tried Matrix (this spring) with a group of peers, my E2E rooms were full of random "failed to decrypt" and lots of out-of-band communications "hey, are my messages working for you today?" I'm glad Matrix is having the same issues as XMPP with E2EE

:)

What issues does XMPP have with it? :)

moparisthebest, talk to the folks who regularly get OMEMO errors.

Seriously though, for normal users who only have a phone it works flawlessly

I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo

I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo

jonasw: likely only advanced users who like to flip knobs in advanced settings and try a lot of clients

Ie, most people here, but no normal people

moparisthebest: or people who try to configure a private MUC

moparisthebest, we have fairly normal people around at xmpp@ who have (likely) OMEMO issues they just.can’t.solve, and thanks to the huge amount of moving parts which are required for OMEMO support, it’s impossible to debug

also because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible. ✏

but mostly because even when you get logs, it ends up with "eeehh... yeah, no idea"

Somebody should make a "Why am I losing messages in XMPP?" flowchart

sounds like a plan

I installed conversations on my Mom's phone years ago and she's never had issues, and you've never met a more technology incompetent person

moparisthebest: did she ever *create* a private MUC?

is s2s involved?

She doesn't even know what words like omemo or xmpp are, it's just how she messages family, and it *just works*

No on creating private muc

moparisthebest: see!

No s2s but that's not really a client concern anyway

moparisthebest, nobody said anything about "client" concerns only

moparisthebest, when my father upgraded to some version of Conversations, he couldn’t even talk to me anymore because it was telling him I don’t have any OMEMO key, and he obviously didn’t read the error message and just assumed “it” stopped working.

He’s not totally illiterate, but he still doesn’t read error messages.

That's also probably not the best error message if you don't know what omemo is

Was that because the default changed to omemo and you don't use it?

Cause that dialog has been improved a lot

https://burtrum.org/up/dbce0222-f2f1-48b2-bcc7-b35f5b0c55a0/IJ5QOl5mQsyOdwogck45XA.jpg

moparisthebest, maybe, since then I went on holiday at his place and switched this tab to no encryption, he’s using the same server as mine anyway.

That's what it looks like now, sending to a user named 'test'

moparisthebest, see, faced with such a dialog the only thing he would do would be to click Cancel.

And then try again three or four times before giving up.

My father is using all the evil chat systems.

That's fair, I'm not a UI guy but it could be improved

edhelas, that drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor) ✏

edhelas, I'd be interested to hear his opinions about XMPP, seeing that he recommends matrix and tox :)

pep.: on HN he wrote that he didn't evaluate any other chat systems besides of matrix and signal

If conversations does not even find a device list, then how the f* does it encrypt messages?

What the hell is "we can't encrypt, there is no way. Keep on encrypting?"

???

Syndace: it gives you the option to disable it, what else could it do?

Can't silently fall back to unencrypted, this ain't email