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Seve/SouL
Thanks for sharing pep. I will take a look
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jonasw
meh videos
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flow
my thought exactly
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Seve/SouL
I guess it's more 'sound' than video :)
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Seve/SouL
But I understand
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jonasw
I’d love to skim it to gauge applicability/interest :(
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pep.
jonasw: so much negativity ;)
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pep.
jonaws, I've got text notes here for you: https://bpaste.net/raw/6e36088b2615
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Guus
Board o'clock
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Guus
No MattJ today, nor Nyco. RalphM, Martin?
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nyco
so finally, I can make it
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Guus
🙂
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Guus
seems to be just you and me though
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nyco
what's the timeout value? 10 minutes? 😉
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MattJ
I'm kinda here, but can't promise I won't need to disappear
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MattJ
And I'm multitasking
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nyco
so, do we do that meeting?
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nyco
if MattJ is half here, then we are 2.5, is that a quorum? 😉
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Guus
Let's skip until next week, unless someone wants to address something urgently
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nyco
next week, I'll a very constrained bandwidth, I think I'll have to skip it
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nyco
I'll know better on Wednesday
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Martin
Guus: I am not the xsf Martin 😉
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Guus
Martin, I know, but I'm not aware of XSF's Martins other nickname 🙂
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Guus
nyco, ok, please let us know
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Guus
doesn't seem that there's much interest in continuing today
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nyco
yep
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nyco
thx
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Guus
until we meet again!
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edhelas
https://drewdevault.com/2018/08/08/Signal.html
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jonasw
okay wat
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jonasw
something is kaputt
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jonasw
I can’t access that, and I can’t access stackoverflow.
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Ge0rG
jonasw: your internet is b0rked!
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jonasw
yes, but why
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jonasw
it is not DNS
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edhelas
jonasw did you tried HTTP over XMPP ?
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jonasw
edhelas, no
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jonasw
IPv4 seems to be kaputt
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edhelas
IPv6 is the new IPv4
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jonasw
and the v6 of drewdevault.com is kaputt
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jonasw
that explains it
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jonasw
gonna reboot the router thing
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jonasw
odd
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jonasw
also interesting how long I didn’t notice that v4 was b0rked
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edhelas
it's maybe a good thing
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Ge0rG
> Last time I've tried Matrix (this spring) with a group of peers, my E2E rooms were full of random "failed to decrypt" and lots of out-of-band communications "hey, are my messages working for you today?" I'm glad Matrix is having the same issues as XMPP with E2EE
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jonasw
:)
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moparisthebest
What issues does XMPP have with it? :)
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jonasw
moparisthebest, talk to the folks who regularly get OMEMO errors.
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moparisthebest
Seriously though, for normal users who only have a phone it works flawlessly
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Ge0rG
I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
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jonasw
I sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
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moparisthebest
jonasw: likely only advanced users who like to flip knobs in advanced settings and try a lot of clients
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moparisthebest
Ie, most people here, but no normal people
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest: or people who try to configure a private MUC
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jonasw
moparisthebest, we have fairly normal people around at xmpp@ who have (likely) OMEMO issues they just.can’t.solve, and thanks to the huge amount of moving parts which are required for OMEMO support, it’s impossible to debug
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jonasw
because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible.✎ -
jonasw
also because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible. ✏
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jonasw
but mostly because even when you get logs, it ends up with "eeehh... yeah, no idea"
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Ge0rG
Somebody should make a "Why am I losing messages in XMPP?" flowchart
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jonasw
sounds like a plan
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moparisthebest
I installed conversations on my Mom's phone years ago and she's never had issues, and you've never met a more technology incompetent person
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest: did she ever *create* a private MUC?
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jonasw
is s2s involved?
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moparisthebest
She doesn't even know what words like omemo or xmpp are, it's just how she messages family, and it *just works*
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moparisthebest
No on creating private muc
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest: see!
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moparisthebest
No s2s but that's not really a client concern anyway
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jonasw
moparisthebest, nobody said anything about "client" concerns only
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, when my father upgraded to some version of Conversations, he couldn’t even talk to me anymore because it was telling him I don’t have any OMEMO key, and he obviously didn’t read the error message and just assumed “it” stopped working.
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Link Mauve
He’s not totally illiterate, but he still doesn’t read error messages.
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moparisthebest
That's also probably not the best error message if you don't know what omemo is
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moparisthebest
Was that because the default changed to omemo and you don't use it?
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moparisthebest
Cause that dialog has been improved a lot
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moparisthebest
https://burtrum.org/up/dbce0222-f2f1-48b2-bcc7-b35f5b0c55a0/IJ5QOl5mQsyOdwogck45XA.jpg
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, maybe, since then I went on holiday at his place and switched this tab to no encryption, he’s using the same server as mine anyway.
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moparisthebest
That's what it looks like now, sending to a user named 'test'
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, see, faced with such a dialog the only thing he would do would be to click Cancel.
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Link Mauve
And then try again three or four times before giving up.
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Ge0rG
My father is using all the evil chat systems.
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moparisthebest
That's fair, I'm not a UI guy but it could be improved
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pep.
edhelas, thas drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor)✎ -
pep.
edhelas, that drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor) ✏
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pep.
edhelas, I'd be interested to hear his opinions about XMPP, seeing that he recommends matrix and tox :)
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Ge0rG
pep.: on HN he wrote that he didn't evaluate any other chat systems besides of matrix and signal
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Syndace
If conversations does not even find a device list, then how the f* does it encrypt messages?
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Syndace
What the hell is "we can't encrypt, there is no way. Keep on encrypting?"
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Syndace
???
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moparisthebest
Syndace: it gives you the option to disable it, what else could it do?
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moparisthebest
Can't silently fall back to unencrypted, this ain't email