jonaswI can’t access that, and I can’t access stackoverflow.
Ge0rGjonasw: your internet is b0rked!
jonaswyes, but why
jonaswit is not DNS
edhelasjonasw did you tried HTTP over XMPP ?
jonaswedhelas, no
jonaswIPv4 seems to be kaputt
edhelasIPv6 is the new IPv4
jonaswand the v6 of drewdevault.com is kaputt
jonaswthat explains it
jonaswgonna reboot the router thing
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jonaswodd
jonaswalso interesting how long I didn’t notice that v4 was b0rked
edhelasit's maybe a good thing
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Ge0rG> Last time I've tried Matrix (this spring) with a group of peers, my E2E rooms were full of random "failed to decrypt" and lots of out-of-band communications "hey, are my messages working for you today?"
I'm glad Matrix is having the same issues as XMPP with E2EE
jonasw:)
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moparisthebestWhat issues does XMPP have with it? :)
jonaswmoparisthebest, talk to the folks who regularly get OMEMO errors.
moparisthebestSeriously though, for normal users who only have a phone it works flawlessly
Ge0rGI sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
jonaswI sent you an OMEMO encrypted message but your client doesn’t seem to support that. Find more information on https://conversations.im/omemo
moparisthebestjonasw: likely only advanced users who like to flip knobs in advanced settings and try a lot of clients
moparisthebestIe, most people here, but no normal people
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: or people who try to configure a private MUC
jonaswmoparisthebest, we have fairly normal people around at xmpp@ who have (likely) OMEMO issues they just.can’t.solve, and thanks to the huge amount of moving parts which are required for OMEMO support, it’s impossible to debug
jonaswbecause they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible.
jonaswalso because they’re not technical people and getting usable logs is ~impossible.
jonaswbut mostly because even when you get logs, it ends up with "eeehh... yeah, no idea"
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Ge0rGSomebody should make a "Why am I losing messages in XMPP?" flowchart
jonaswsounds like a plan
moparisthebestI installed conversations on my Mom's phone years ago and she's never had issues, and you've never met a more technology incompetent person
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: did she ever *create* a private MUC?
jonaswis s2s involved?
moparisthebestShe doesn't even know what words like omemo or xmpp are, it's just how she messages family, and it *just works*
moparisthebestNo on creating private muc
Ge0rGmoparisthebest: see!
moparisthebestNo s2s but that's not really a client concern anyway
jonaswmoparisthebest, nobody said anything about "client" concerns only
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Link Mauvemoparisthebest, when my father upgraded to some version of Conversations, he couldn’t even talk to me anymore because it was telling him I don’t have any OMEMO key, and he obviously didn’t read the error message and just assumed “it” stopped working.
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Link MauveHe’s not totally illiterate, but he still doesn’t read error messages.
moparisthebestThat's also probably not the best error message if you don't know what omemo is
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moparisthebestWas that because the default changed to omemo and you don't use it?
moparisthebestCause that dialog has been improved a lot
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, maybe, since then I went on holiday at his place and switched this tab to no encryption, he’s using the same server as mine anyway.
moparisthebestThat's what it looks like now, sending to a user named 'test'
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, see, faced with such a dialog the only thing he would do would be to click Cancel.
Link MauveAnd then try again three or four times before giving up.
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Ge0rGMy father is using all the evil chat systems.
moparisthebestThat's fair, I'm not a UI guy but it could be improved
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pep.edhelas, thas drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor)
pep.edhelas, that drewdevault guy is.. interesting. I know him from Sway (compositor)
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pep.edhelas, I'd be interested to hear his opinions about XMPP, seeing that he recommends matrix and tox :)
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Ge0rGpep.: on HN he wrote that he didn't evaluate any other chat systems besides of matrix and signal
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SyndaceIf conversations does not even find a device list, then how the f* does it encrypt messages?
SyndaceWhat the hell is "we can't encrypt, there is no way. Keep on encrypting?"
Syndace???
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moparisthebestSyndace: it gives you the option to disable it, what else could it do?
moparisthebestCan't silently fall back to unencrypted, this ain't email