XSF Discussion - 2018-08-10

00:00:09 Syndace If there is no device list there is literally no way to send encrypted messages. I have no idea what conversations even sends in that case. A message only with the "your client does not support omemo" message? It should not ask to disable, but rather simply tell the user that encryption is impossible and switch to plaintext.
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00:00:54 Syndace No buttons that helpless users have to decide between
00:01:21 Syndace as someone said earlier, if you're scared and don't understand something, you probably click "cancel"
00:01:25 moparisthebest Syndace: it won't let you send anything, that's the correct behavior
00:01:46 Syndace Oh, that dialogue reappears until you click disable?
00:01:47 moparisthebest We have years of evidence that falling back to unencrypted is bad
00:02:12 moparisthebest ISPs strip STARTLS all the time for example
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00:02:30 Syndace not talking about silent fallback
00:02:39 moparisthebest Yep @ dialog reappearing
00:03:10 Syndace Okay, that makes things a bit better.
00:05:10 Syndace But it's not really "falling back" to plaintext if there never was an encrypted chat in the first place
00:05:40 Syndace I think "force encryption" should be an opt-in setting
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00:09:49 moparisthebest It's opt out now in conversations
00:09:59 moparisthebest I think that's the correct choice
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00:12:59 Syndace I would agree if the message was a bit friendlier for non-it people
00:14:47 Syndace A message that does not make you click cancel because you don't understand what's going on
00:15:23 Syndace But it's okay I guess, my initial rage was a bit too much
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05:33:46 goffi Hi. I don't think OMEMO by default is a good choice as long as 1) there is no full stanza encryption and 2) it's not at least in draft. But the situation is difficult, for a messenger where one of the main goal is security, the choice of Conversation is understandable.
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06:47:45 edhelas https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-17/
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06:48:06 edhelas so looks like the futur Librem5 phone will have XMPP shipped in, using the libpurple library
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06:48:37 Seve I was quite surprised, as they said they were going to use Matrix. Or maybe both come with it?
06:49:46 edhelas looks like both
06:50:34 edhelas but with libpurple I don't expect to have a modern XMPP experience as well…
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07:27:47 Ge0rG maybe somebody should sacrifice themselves and bring libpurple to a reasonable level?
07:28:12 Zash Crowdsource some monies for it?
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07:29:23 MattJ I'm starting to think that's the only answer (fixing Pidgin/libpurple)
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07:29:56 Zash I've been semi-seriously thinking that a while myself.
07:30:42 Ge0rG Maybe that's a job for a student who's using Pidgin anyway already?
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07:30:51 Ge0rG 's looking at jonasw
07:31:04 jonasw Ge0rG, good thing I’m not a student anymore
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07:31:32 MattJ Lucky escape
07:31:49 Ge0rG jonasw: being a student doesn't magically stop with a master's degree. You are still tainted by the attitude.
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07:32:08 jonasw speaking of attitude: that’s just, like, your opinion, man
07:32:15 Zash > who's using Pidgin Did you stop?
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07:32:42 Ge0rG jonasw: I've got some strong opinions, so you better not question them :P
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09:22:02 Seve I'm guessing they did research before using libpurple. What does libpurple offer that other libraries don't?
09:22:50 Zash Support for every protocol under the sun.
09:22:57 Zash More cruft than you can shake a stick at.
09:23:09 Zash Dubious security track record
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