XSF Discussion - 2018-08-16

  1. thorsten has left

  2. thorsten has joined

  3. lskdjf has joined

  4. Guus has left

  5. Valerian has joined

  6. Valerian has left

  7. ralphm has joined

  8. Chobbes has left

  9. Chobbes has joined

  10. peter has joined

  11. anjan has joined

  12. anjan has joined

  13. peter has left

  14. thorsten has left

  15. thorsten has joined

  16. apach has left

  17. MattJ has joined

  18. thorsten has left

  19. thorsten has joined

  20. vinx55 has joined

  21. Ge0rG has left

  22. winfried has left

  23. thorsten has left

  24. thorsten has joined

  25. Lance has joined

  26. apach has left

  27. kasper.dement has joined

  28. rishiraj22 has left

  29. rishiraj22 has joined

  30. mrdoctorwho has joined

  31. anjan has joined

  32. thorsten has left

  33. thorsten has joined

  34. kasper.dement has left

  35. moparisthebest has left

  36. moparisthebest has joined

  37. kasper.dement has joined

  38. dos has left

  39. vinx55 has left

  40. apach has left

  41. kasper.dement has left

  42. thorsten has left

  43. dos has left

  44. thorsten has joined

  45. dos has left

  46. dos has left

  47. dos has left

  48. dos has left

  49. dos has left

  50. apach has left

  51. dos has left

  52. bjc has joined

  53. dos has left

  54. j.r has joined

  55. j.r has joined

  56. rishiraj22 has left

  57. rishiraj22 has joined

  58. dos has left

  59. dos has left

  60. dos has left

  61. dos has left

  62. dos has left

  63. thorsten has left

  64. dos has left

  65. thorsten has joined

  66. dos has left

  67. dos has left

  68. dos has left

  69. dos has left

  70. dos has left

  71. dos has left

  72. dos has left

  73. dos has left

  74. dos has left

  75. dos has left

  76. dos has left

  77. Lance has left

  78. dos has left

  79. dos has left

  80. dos has left

  81. dos has left

  82. dos has left

  83. dos has left

  84. dos has left

  85. dos has left

  86. dos has left

  87. dos has left

  88. dos has left

  89. 404.city has joined

  90. dos has left

  91. dos has left

  92. dos has left

  93. thorsten has left

  94. thorsten has joined

  95. apach has left

  96. dos has left

  97. dos has left

  98. dos has left

  99. labdsf has left

  100. Guus has left

  101. Guus has left

  102. mikaela has joined

  103. dos has left

  104. dos has left

  105. thorsten has left

  106. j.r has joined

  107. dos has left

  108. rishiraj22 has left

  109. rishiraj22 has joined

  110. thorsten has joined

  111. j.r has joined

  112. apach has left

  113. dos has left

  114. dos has left

  115. tux has left

  116. tux has joined

  117. mikaela has left

  118. dos has left

  119. Guus has left

  120. dos has left

  121. dos has left

  122. Guus has left

  123. dos has left

  124. 404.city has left

  125. 404.city has joined

  126. dos has left

  127. apach has left

  128. thorsten has left

  129. thorsten has joined

  130. dos has left

  131. dos has left

  132. apach has left

  133. dos has left

  134. dos has left

  135. dos has left

  136. labdsf has left

  137. thorsten has left

  138. thorsten has joined

  139. dos has left

  140. Nekit has joined

  141. jjrh has left

  142. dos has left

  143. Guus has left

  144. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  145. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  146. apach has left

  147. j.r has joined

  148. j.r has joined

  149. Guus has left

  150. goffi has joined

  151. thorsten has left

  152. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  153. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  154. thorsten has joined

  155. waqas has joined

  156. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  157. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  158. efrit has joined

  159. blabla has joined

  160. blabla has joined

  161. Guus has left

  162. Guus has left

  163. dos has left

  164. 404.city has left

  165. apach has left

  166. thorsten has left

  167. efrit has left

  168. dos has left

  169. apach has left

  170. karp has left

  171. karp has joined

  172. apach has left

  173. dos has left

  174. lorddavidiii has joined

  175. dos has left

  176. apach has left

  177. dos has left

  178. lumi has joined

  179. lumi has left

  180. mikaela has joined

  181. rishiraj22 has left

  182. rishiraj22 has joined

  183. labdsf has left

  184. j.r has joined

  185. karp has left

  186. karp has joined

  187. lorddavidiii has left

  188. ta has joined

  189. marc has joined

  190. lnj has joined

  191. dos has left

  192. dos has left

  193. dos has left

  194. daniel has left

  195. marc has left

  196. lorddavidiii has joined

  197. vanitasvitae has left

  198. thorsten has joined

  199. Dave Cridland has left

  200. Dave Cridland has left

  201. jubalh has joined

  202. jubalh has left

  203. dos has left

  204. Guus has left

  205. Guus has left

  206. Steve Kille has left

  207. Martin has left

  208. dos has left

  209. dos has left

  210. Steve Kille has joined

  211. rishiraj22 has left

  212. rishiraj22 has joined

  213. labdsf has left

  214. dos has left

  215. dos has left

  216. dos has joined

  217. dos has left

  218. dos has left

  219. Guus has left

  220. dos has joined

  221. dos has left

  222. dos has joined

  223. dos has left

  224. dos has joined

  225. Guus has left

  226. dos has left

  227. dos has left

  228. dos has left

  229. dos has left

  230. dos has left

  231. dos has left

  232. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  233. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  234. dos has left

  235. dos has left

  236. thorsten has left

  237. thorsten has joined

  238. blabla has joined

  239. blabla has joined

  240. dos has left

  241. thorsten has left

  242. ralphm has joined

  243. dos has left

  244. Dave Cridland has left

  245. thorsten has joined

  246. Seve/SouL has joined

  247. Chobbes has joined

  248. Chobbes has joined

  249. Guus has left

  250. dos has left

  251. dos has left

  252. dos has left

  253. lskdjf has joined

  254. jubalh has joined

  255. Guus has left

  256. Guus has left

  257. Guus has joined

  258. Syndace has joined

  259. dos has left

  260. dos has left

  261. la|r|ma has joined

  262. dos has left

  263. ThibG has joined

  264. blabla has joined

  265. blabla has joined

  266. dwd has left

  267. dos has left

  268. Seve/SouL has joined

  269. dos has left

  270. dos has left

  271. rishiraj22 has left

  272. dwd has joined

  273. dos has left

  274. dos has left

  275. Martin has left

  276. Martin has left

  277. Martin has left

  278. Martin has joined

  279. dos has left

  280. ThibG has left

  281. ThibG has joined

  282. waqas has left

  283. dos has left

  284. apach has left

  285. vanitasvitae has left

  286. jubalh has left

  287. Martin has left

  288. Martin has left

  289. Martin has joined

  290. dos has left

  291. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  292. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  293. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  294. la|r|ma has joined

  295. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  296. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  297. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  298. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  299. la|r|ma has left

  300. apach has left

  301. dos has left

  302. dos has left

  303. dos has left

  304. dos has left

  305. dos has left

  306. jubalh has joined

  307. dwd has left

  308. Guus has left

  309. dos has left

  310. dos has joined

  311. jubalh has joined

  312. dos has left

  313. dos has left

  314. dos has left

  315. dos has joined

  316. dos has left

  317. dos has joined

  318. mimi89999 has joined

  319. dos has left

  320. dos has left

  321. dos has left

  322. dos has left

  323. dos has joined

  324. j.r has joined

  325. dos has left

  326. dos has joined

  327. ralphm has left

  328. ralphm has joined

  329. dwd has joined

  330. jubalh has joined

  331. MbJ3 has joined

  332. lnj has left

  333. lnj has joined

  334. j.r has joined

  335. rishiraj22 has left

  336. la|r|ma has joined

  337. la|r|ma has joined

  338. rishiraj22 has left

  339. rishiraj22 has joined

  340. MbJ3 has left

  341. dos has left

  342. dos has left

  343. MbJ3 has left

  344. Link Mauve

    Ugh, https://infosec-handbook.eu/blog/xmpp-aitm/

  345. Link Mauve

    They’re mostly right, but I dislike their conclusions.

  346. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: they also had a rant about how bad XMPP is, recently

  347. marc has joined

  348. Ge0rG


  349. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, this is another.

  350. dos has left

  351. dwd

    Link Mauve, "Furthermore, he is convinced that most XMPP server and client software is more a leisure project than secure software." - there's at least three companies working with XMPP in high security environments.

  352. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  353. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  354. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  355. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  356. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  357. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  358. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  359. MbJ3 has left

  360. dos has left

  361. muppeth has left

  362. dos has left

  363. Zash

    Uh, worth reading?

  364. daniel

    To be fair the companies you are talking about aren't the companies and products most end users are using

  365. dos has left

  366. dos has left

  367. muppeth has joined

  368. dos has left

  369. dos has left

  370. dos has left

  371. MbJ3 has joined

  372. daniel

    But still at least ejabberd and Conversations are products created by for profit entities

  373. daniel

    > Uh, worth reading? Not really

  374. dos has left

  375. Zash

    > Links > * How to use Signal more privacy-friendly

  376. Zash


  377. anjan has left

  378. dos has left

  379. dos has left

  380. dos has joined

  381. Chobbes has left

  382. marc has left

  383. thorsten has joined

  384. jere has joined

  385. dos has left

  386. dos has joined

  387. dos has left

  388. j.r has joined

  389. ThibG has left

  390. edhelas

    > solution, don't use Signal

  391. ThibG has joined

  392. thorsten has left

  393. jonasw

    > solution, stop doing those computer things and become potato farmer

  394. thorsten has joined

  395. dos has joined

  396. Ge0rG

    jonasw: potato seeds are generticaly manipulated by Monsanto to not reproduce after the first generation, forcing you to buy new seeds from them

  397. Zash

    Plant potato, get more potato

  398. dos has left

  399. lskdjf has joined

  400. dos has joined

  401. MbJ3 has left

  402. MbJ3 has joined

  403. dos has left

  404. dos has joined

  405. j.r has joined

  406. j.r has joined

  407. dos has left

  408. dos has left

  409. dos has left

  410. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  411. dos has left

  412. dos has left

  413. lskdjf has joined

  414. dos has joined

  415. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  416. la|r|ma has joined

  417. Martin has left

  418. j.r has joined

  419. dwd

    Still don't quite understand why "Don't trust an XMPP server operator, they can monitor your traffic really easily!" can be combined with "Use this centralized service, because the admins and hosting providers are totally trustworthy."

  420. Zash

    dwd: You dare question our lord and saviour, Moxie?! /s

  421. Zash

    Something something praise be crypto-jesus

  422. edhelas

    never question Father Moxie

  423. dwd

    Well, right. That's why pretty much every *other* cryptographer is working on MLS.

  424. edhelas

    and the Signal centralized backend deployed on AWS instances :p

  425. edhelas

    but it's "Snowden Approved ©"

  426. Zash

    and Schneier approved(?)

  427. dwd

    Yeah, because a guy who dumped a load of stuff he hadn't even read onto a bunch of journalists is a good source of judgement.

  428. Zash

    The holy trinity giveth unto us Signal

  429. j.r has joined

  430. edhelas

    by the way, the centralized-xmpp-based-omemo Cryptocat client is not maintained anymore ? https://github.com/cryptocat/cryptocat

  431. jonasw

    dwd, (being devil’s advocate): "because we can deploy useful e2ee"

  432. dwd

    jonasw, Sure, but the remaining problems still exist - anyone reading the cleartext Signal traffic can read out the routing info.

  433. Martin has left

  434. Chobbes has joined

  435. apach has left

  436. blabla has joined

  437. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  438. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  439. Martin has left

  440. vanitasvitae has left

  441. Martin has joined

  442. Zash has left

  443. Martin has joined

  444. Martin has left

  445. muppeth has joined

  446. muppeth has joined

  447. muppeth has left

  448. muppeth has joined

  449. rishiraj22 has left

  450. ThibG has joined

  451. ThibG has joined

  452. daniel

    edhelas: does that surprise you given the three preceding iterations of that project?

  453. Zash

    dwd: wait, what?

  454. Ge0rG

    Zash: Facebook paid TWO MILLION DOLLARS to get moxie's Stamp Of Approval. It must be good!

  455. muppeth has joined

  456. Ge0rG

    Zash: if your "wait, what" relates to Signal: the Signal admins can access exactly the same kind of metadata as your XMPP server admin, except with phone numbers instead of JIDs. But they Totally Promised Not To Do It.

  457. edhelas

    so this is fine

  458. Zash

    I read what dwd wrote as an implied lack of transport encryption

  459. blabla has joined

  460. Ge0rG

    Zash: I think "cleartext Signal traffic" was supposed to mean the post-decryption stream

  461. Zash


  462. Ge0rG

    wouldn't that be pre-decryption?

  463. Zash

    Were they the funny people who named their transport protocol "Noise"?

  464. Ge0rG

    Zash: drink some more coffee. Or drink less, if you've had some today.

  465. Zash

    Post-lunch nap perhaps

  466. vanitasvitae has left

  467. blabla has joined

  468. dwd

    Zash, No, I did mean inside the service. I assume it runs TLS etc.

  469. Zash

    dwd: I have this feeling that they invented their own TLS and named it Noise

  470. dwd

    With that bunch, that's entirely possible.

  471. Zash

    http://noiseprotocol.org/index.html hmmmmm, doesn't say Signal anywhere?

  472. Zash

    But WhatsApp

  473. muppeth has joined

  474. Martin has joined

  475. Martin has left

  476. Martin has left

  477. Martin has left

  478. muppeth has left

  479. muppeth has joined

  480. Martin has left

  481. Martin has left

  482. j.r has joined

  483. Martin has left

  484. muppeth has left

  485. Guus has left

  486. Martin has left

  487. muppeth has joined

  488. la|r|ma has left

  489. la|r|ma has joined

  490. Guus has left

  491. lorddavidiii has left

  492. Str4tocaster has joined

  493. Guus has left

  494. j.r has joined

  495. Guus has left

  496. lorddavidiii has joined

  497. daniel has left

  498. MbJ3 has left

  499. Ge0rG

    https://blog.powerdns.com/2018/03/22/the-dns-camel-or-the-rise-in-dns-complexit/ - this is so similar to XMPP

  500. Str4tocaster has left

  501. Zash

    DNS, complex? But, but, it's being HTTP&JSON-ified! That's the simplest thing evar!!!

  502. Str4tocaster has joined

  503. Ge0rG

    Zash: take your nap already

  504. Str4tocaster has left

  505. Guus has left

  506. ralphm waves

  507. jjrh has left

  508. dos has left

  509. blabla has joined

  510. blabla has joined

  511. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  512. ralphm

    0. Welcome

  513. ralphm

    Who do we have?

  514. Seve/SouL has joined

  515. ralphm

    I'm back from vacation.

  516. Guus


  517. Guus

    welcome back

  518. Guus

    (MattJ is always here if you mention him 😛 )

  519. Guus


  520. Guus

    *tap* *tap* is this thing on?

  521. MattJ


  522. Guus


  523. MattJ

    Sorry, was temporarily distracted by the doorbell :)

  524. ralphm

    Quorum, yay

  525. ralphm

    Agenda items?

  526. Guus

    I don't have any

  527. MattJ

    I haven't looked at Trello in a while

  528. Guus

    at what point are we going to send someone over to Martin's house to check if he's OK?

  529. Guus

    (not you, Martin. The other Martin)

  530. MattJ

    He did reply to my email fairly promptly, so he's "around"

  531. Ge0rG

    so no need to send a SWAT team?

  532. ralphm

    Didn't we discuss this back in June?

  533. ralphm

    21, specifically

  534. MattJ


  535. ralphm

    Any updates on your side MattJ?

  536. MattJ

    No, the only thing on my side is GDPR, and I'm afraid I've not had time to work on it

  537. ralphm

    Now vacation is over and summer is coming to an end, we should be able to get back in motion.

  538. MattJ

    Yes, hopefully

  539. MattJ

    Just before the end of the term :)

  540. Guus

    which reminds me: should we start looking for the next Board?

  541. ralphm

    That was going to be my only thing for today. Ask Alex when he wants to start that process.

  542. ralphm

    We can already start poking people for interest.

  543. Guus

    sounds like a plan

  544. Zash has left

  545. Guus

    maybe we should also curate our to-do list, see what things we can reasonably expect to get done this term, and what not

  546. ralphm nods

  547. ralphm

    I'll have a look at it for next week.

  548. ralphm

    Anything else?

  549. Guus

    And, while on the subject:

  550. MattJ

    Nothing else from me

  551. Guus

    Should we consider putting in place a system where we do not replace the entire board each year?

  552. Guus

    have two-year terms, staggered - something like that?

  553. Guus

    I'm hoping that that'll prevent ramp-up and shut-down overhead, by making it more of an ongoing process.

  554. ralphm

    Not sure. I don't think it has been a problem before.

  555. ralphm

    All boards I was part of had overlap

  556. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  557. dwd

    ralphm, Yes, but not by design, and there's always a feeling that Board can't do anything that goes beyond its term.

  558. ralphm

    That's a good point. This would require changes to our Bylaws, though. Not sure if we can do that before these elections.

  559. Guus

    oh, I'm not in a hurry

  560. dwd

    ralphm, I have occasionally wondered about staggered terms, or an "executive team" that actually does the work, that can be recalled by subsequent boards.

  561. Guus

    shall I post on the members list, see if there's support or not?

  562. MattJ

    We really don't have any kind of executive team

  563. ralphm

    dwd: well, yeah, but since we currently don't even have an Executive Director, we'd to figure out what that all means.

  564. jjrh has left

  565. ralphm

    Guus: please do.

  566. valo has joined

  567. Guus


  568. ralphm

    Ok. My last thing was more of a note: FOSDEM has posted a CfP for 2019. Dates are February 2 and 3.

  569. marc has joined

  570. Guus

    ah, someone should kick SCAM in action

  571. ralphm

    So was penciling in Jan 31 and Feb 1 for our own stuff.

  572. Guus

    Sounds good. I've marked it on my personal calendar

  573. ralphm


  574. ralphm

    Cya next week!

  575. ralphm bangs gavel

  576. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  577. mrdoctorwho has left

  578. labdsf has left

  579. dos has left

  580. dos has joined

  581. dos has left

  582. dos has joined

  583. j.r has joined

  584. Tobias has joined

  585. cookie has left

  586. cookie has joined

  587. cookie has left

  588. cookie has joined

  589. j.r has joined

  590. j.r has joined

  591. kasper.dement has joined

  592. mrdoctorwho has joined

  593. SamWhited has left

  594. SamWhited has left

  595. kasper.dement has joined

  596. MbJ3 has joined

  597. perflyst has joined

  598. SamWhited has left

  599. Tobias has joined

  600. Tobias has joined

  601. ThibG has left

  602. rishiraj22 has left

  603. Dave Cridland

    So, I've been debugging XEP-0198 support. And I tried - because it seemed easiest - including XEP-0198 data on the stanza itself, as namespaced attributes. Gajim seemed to ignore it - anyone any idea if any clients would choke?

  604. Dave Cridland

    (I was doing this as debugging info I was *hoping* would be ignored, mind...)

  605. Link Mauve

    I still can’t understand how clients could choke on this proper usage of XML, while we are already doing it e.g. for @xml:lang.

  606. Ge0rG

    Dave Cridland: that smells of protocol abuse. But if you give me credentials / IBR, I can test yaxim

  607. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, We've avoided namespaced attributes in general because people do screw it up, or at least have historically.

  608. Link Mauve

    I’d really like to see data on that.

  609. Link Mauve

    Please deploy that in the wild. :)

  610. Ge0rG

    I also need to debug an SM anomaly that I've encountered, where messages get duplicated on resume. Sometimes.

  611. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, They're a bit of a weird one, in terms of XML, since <x xmlns='foo' attr='blah'/> is entirely different from <a:x xmlns:a='foo' a:attr='blah'/>.

  612. flow

    Ge0rG, duplicates send *after* resume?

  613. Dave Cridland

    Ge0rG, This ought to help track that one down. I'll throw you my IBR-enabled test server's details.

  614. flow

    Dave Cridland, care to share why those elements are different?

  615. blabla has joined

  616. Link Mauve

    Dave Cridland, first one would be equivalent to <a:x xmlns:a='foo' attr='blah'/>, because non-prefixed attributes are in the null namespace.

  617. Link Mauve

    flow, ↑

  618. Link Mauve

    But you can perfectly have them in other namespaces.

  619. Dave Cridland

    flow, As Link Mauve says. But thanks for being an exemplar case of not understanding the things.

  620. Link Mauve

    <x xmlns='foo' xmlns:b='bar' b:attr='baz'/> works, but it’s a totally different element.

  621. Link Mauve

    And thus you can also have <x xmlns='foo' xmlns:b='bar' attr='blah' b:attr='baz'/>, with no conflict.

  622. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, I'm not sure that a non-prefixed attribute is in any namespace at all, as such.

  623. Link Mauve

    Which is equal to <a:x xmlns:a='foo' xmlns:b='bar' attr='blah' b:attr='baz'/>.

  624. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, So you can't, for example, say <x xmlns='foo' xmlns:null='' null:attr=blah'/>

  625. Link Mauve


  626. Link Mauve

    Instead of “the null namespace” I should have said “no namespace”, but null is how this is represented at least in JS and Java.

  627. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, Right, but "attr" is "The attr attribute of x", whereas your "b:attr" is the "attr attribute of the bar namespace".

  628. mimi89999 has joined

  629. Link Mauve


  630. Dave Cridland

    But in any case, corner-cases like <a xmlns:a='a' xmlns:b='a' a:a='bar' b:a='foo'/> can easily slip through.

  631. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  632. Dave Cridland

    Since that XML happens to be legal if you're not processing namespaces, but illegal if you are.

  633. ThibG has joined

  634. Link Mauve

    Why? :/

  635. Link Mauve

    Ah, missed that both are the same namespace.

  636. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, Right.

  637. Link Mauve

    But are there really XML libraries which fail on that?

  638. Link Mauve

    I’d expect they to be fixed by then.

  639. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, I'd fully expect that XML to traverse most servers.

  640. flow

    possibly depending on the layer where the XML is embedded. Not all intermediate hops parse each and every part of the stanza

  641. Dave Cridland

    flow, Right. Or at least, not to the namespace level.

  642. Link Mauve

    % nc 5222 <?xml version='1.0'?><stream:stream xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' xml:lang='en' xmlns='jabber:client' to='linkmauve.fr'> <?xml version='1.0'?><stream:stream xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' xml:lang='en' from='linkmauve.fr' id='a8ccb26b-51b5-4a48-b1cb-ea4734f61a7f' xmlns='jabber:client'><stream:features><starttls xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'><required/></starttls></stream:features> <a xmlns:a='foo' xmlns:b='foo' a:coucou='abc' b:coucou='def'/> <stream:error><not-well-formed xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'/></stream:error></stream:stream>

  643. Link Mauve

    At least Prosody correctly rejects it.

  644. Ge0rG

    flow: yes, because smack3+0198 was miscounting.

  645. flow

    Link Mauve, even if it is embedded deep down in an extension element within a stanza?

  646. peter has joined

  647. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, I'd expect Prosody to, because it's using Expat underneath, right?

  648. MattJ


  649. Dave Cridland

    Link Mauve, But ejabberd uses RapidXML, as does Metre. I'm not sure about Openfire actually - but it wouldn't surprise me if it passed them through unscathed.

  650. jjrh has left

  651. perflyst has left

  652. mikaela has left

  653. mikaela has joined

  654. lskdjf has joined

  655. alacer has joined

  656. alacer has left

  657. alacer has joined

  658. jubalh has left

  659. alacer has left

  660. alacer has joined

  661. j.r has joined

  662. rishiraj22 has left

  663. rishiraj22 has left

  664. Nekit has left

  665. Nekit has joined

  666. marc has left

  667. j.r has joined

  668. Guus has left

  669. Guus has left

  670. Guus has left

  671. Guus has joined

  672. Guus has left

  673. Martin has joined

  674. jjrh has left

  675. waqas has joined

  676. waqas has left

  677. waqas has joined

  678. blabla has joined

  679. vanitasvitae has left

  680. jjrh has left

  681. Seve/SouL has joined

  682. Dave Cridland has left

  683. Seve/SouL has joined

  684. Dave Cridland has left

  685. vanitasvitae has left

  686. blabla has joined

  687. apach has left

  688. Lance has joined

  689. Lance has left

  690. alacer has left

  691. alacer has joined

  692. vanitasvitae has left

  693. vanitasvitae has left

  694. blabla has joined

  695. Seve/SouL has joined

  696. dos has left

  697. dos has joined

  698. marc has joined

  699. Dave Cridland has left

  700. Dave Cridland has joined

  701. Dave Cridland has left

  702. Dave Cridland has joined

  703. mrdoctorwho has left

  704. Dave Cridland has left

  705. Dave Cridland has joined

  706. Dave Cridland has left

  707. Dave Cridland has joined

  708. blabla has joined

  709. edhelas has left

  710. Seve/SouL has joined

  711. labdsf has left

  712. thorsten has left

  713. jjrh has left

  714. dos has left

  715. dos has joined

  716. thorsten has joined

  717. MbJ3 has joined

  718. Steve Kille has left

  719. Steve Kille has left

  720. tux has joined

  721. Holger

    ejabberd uses Expat.

  722. MattJ

    I thought so. I thought dwd was implying they switched

  723. Seve/SouL has joined

  724. Steve Kille has joined

  725. MbJ3 has joined

  726. dwd

    Holger, Oh, I thought the new stuff was using an Erland-wrapped RapidXML?

  727. dwd

    Erlang, even.

  728. !XSF_Martin has joined

  729. Holger

    dwd: Nope still Erlang-wrapped Expat, I'm not aware of attempts to switch.

  730. SamWhited has left

  731. tux has left

  732. Holger

    There was a major rewrite of the wrapping itself, which is now mostly in C.

  733. jjrh has left

  734. muppeth has left

  735. muppeth has joined

  736. muppeth has left

  737. rishiraj22 has joined

  738. dwd

    Ah! MongooseIM, not ejabberd. exml is now RapidXML.

  739. dwd

    But confusingly, I don't think they use my fork.

  740. Seve/SouL has joined

  741. la|r|ma has joined

  742. lskdjf has joined

  743. lumi has joined

  744. SamWhited has left

  745. SamWhited has joined

  746. la|r|ma has joined

  747. lskdjf has joined

  748. edhelas has left

  749. edhelas has left

  750. edhelas has joined

  751. j.r has joined

  752. daniel has left

  753. edhelas has left

  754. edhelas has joined

  755. Dave Cridland has left

  756. Dave Cridland has joined

  757. matlag has left

  758. pep. has left

  759. alacer has left

  760. alacer has joined

  761. moparisthebest has joined

  762. moparisthebest has joined

  763. pep. has joined

  764. marc has left

  765. jjrh has left

  766. jjrh has left

  767. pep. has joined

  768. Martin has joined

  769. lovetox has joined

  770. rishiraj22 has left

  771. rishiraj22 has joined

  772. jjrh has left

  773. lorddavidiii has left

  774. Martin has joined

  775. lorddavidiii has joined

  776. winfried has left

  777. Dave Cridland has left

  778. Dave Cridland has joined

  779. Dave Cridland has left

  780. Dave Cridland has joined

  781. Syndace has joined

  782. karp has left

  783. karp has joined

  784. Martin has joined

  785. Tobias has left

  786. Tobias has joined

  787. mikaela has left

  788. labdsf has left

  789. marc has joined

  790. mikaela has joined

  791. labdsf has left

  792. karp has left

  793. karp has joined

  794. labdsf has left

  795. karp has left

  796. karp has joined

  797. Martin has joined

  798. labdsf has left

  799. karp has left

  800. karp has joined

  801. labdsf has left

  802. labdsf has left

  803. labdsf has left

  804. MbJ3 has left

  805. waqas has left

  806. labdsf has left

  807. labdsf has left

  808. MbJ3 has left

  809. MbJ3 has joined

  810. labdsf has left

  811. valo has joined

  812. Dave Cridland has left

  813. Dave Cridland has joined

  814. waqas has joined

  815. j.r has joined

  816. j.r has joined

  817. Dave Cridland has left

  818. Dave Cridland has joined

  819. Steve Kille has left

  820. Dave Cridland has left

  821. Dave Cridland has joined

  822. Dave Cridland has left

  823. Dave Cridland has joined

  824. labdsf has left

  825. labdsf has left

  826. 404.city has joined

  827. js has joined

  828. ta has joined

  829. dos has left

  830. dos has joined

  831. dos has left

  832. dos has joined

  833. dos has left

  834. dos has joined

  835. dos has left

  836. dos has joined

  837. dos has left

  838. dos has joined

  839. j.r has joined

  840. dos has left

  841. j.r has joined

  842. Dave Cridland has left

  843. Dave Cridland has joined

  844. dos has joined

  845. Valerian has joined

  846. dos has left

  847. dos has joined

  848. Valerian has left

  849. la|r|ma has joined

  850. ta has left

  851. ta has joined

  852. la|r|ma has joined

  853. lumi has left

  854. lorddavidiii has left

  855. Chobbes has joined

  856. 404.city has left

  857. goffi has left

  858. 404.city has joined

  859. valo has joined

  860. thorsten has left

  861. labdsf has left

  862. thorsten has joined

  863. Ge0rG has joined

  864. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  865. thorsten has left

  866. thorsten has joined

  867. Seve/SouL has joined

  868. dos has left

  869. dos has joined

  870. j.r has left

  871. j.r has joined

  872. Seve/SouL has joined

  873. matlag has joined

  874. matlag has joined

  875. 404.city has left

  876. jjrh has left

  877. Ge0rG has left

  878. Chobbes has joined

  879. Nekit has joined

  880. ralphm has left

  881. lovetox has joined

  882. bjc has joined

  883. kasper.dement has joined

  884. Seve/SouL has joined

  885. jjrh has left

  886. marc has left

  887. kasper.dement has left

  888. SamWhited has left

  889. jjrh has left

  890. marc has joined

  891. !XSF_Martin has left

  892. lnj_ has joined

  893. blabla has joined

  894. blabla has joined

  895. lnj_ has left

  896. marc has left

  897. waqas has left

  898. thorsten has left

  899. thorsten has joined

  900. la|r|ma has joined

  901. apach has left

  902. lskdjf has joined

  903. lskdjf has joined

  904. la|r|ma has joined

  905. Chobbes has left

  906. Chobbes has joined

  907. jjrh has left

  908. lovetox has joined

  909. thorsten has left

  910. valo has left

  911. thorsten has joined

  912. lovetox has left

  913. dos has left

  914. dos has joined

  915. apach has left

  916. thorsten has left

  917. thorsten has joined

  918. marc has joined

  919. MbJ3 has joined

  920. peter has left

  921. mikaela has left

  922. pep. has left

  923. blabla has left

  924. blabla has joined

  925. thorsten has left

  926. thorsten has joined

  927. dos has left

  928. dos has joined

  929. dos has left

  930. MbJ3 has left

  931. blabla has joined

  932. blabla has joined

  933. dos has joined

  934. dos has left

  935. dos has joined

  936. MbJ3 has joined

  937. dos has left

  938. dos has joined

  939. dos has left

  940. dos has joined

  941. Dave Cridland has left

  942. Dave Cridland has left

  943. Dave Cridland has left

  944. Dave Cridland has left

  945. Dave Cridland has left

  946. Dave Cridland has left

  947. Dave Cridland has left

  948. Dave Cridland has left

  949. Dave Cridland has left

  950. lnj has left

  951. Dave Cridland has left

  952. Dave Cridland has left

  953. lskdjf has joined

  954. Steve Kille has left

  955. js has left

  956. Dave Cridland has left

  957. Dave Cridland has left

  958. js has joined

  959. MbJ3 has joined

  960. Dave Cridland has left

  961. apach has left

  962. lnj has joined

  963. thorsten has left

  964. thorsten has joined

  965. Dave Cridland has left

  966. lskdjf has joined

  967. la|r|ma has left

  968. la|r|ma has joined