I implemented it in Gajim, though I'm guessing the patch no longer applies :)
Holger
edhelas: Hmmm.
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Holger
The point is making stuff available to room members (or occupants?) who are not on my contact list, without making it available world-wide?
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Holger
(Plus anon rooms?)
edhelas
yes
edhelas
for example in a room where people could share their location or mood
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Zash
Having directed presence count in the PEP access check?
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Zash
Does anyone actually follow https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0178.html now?
Zash
Or ...
Zash
Really tiny mention of "or fall back to dialback" in there
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peter
Zash: for c2s or s2s or both?
Zash
Mostly thinking of s2s here
peter
Also, I doubt that any CAs issue certs with the xmppAddr field.
Zash
All glory to Let's Encrypt
Zash
There can be only one! etc...
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Zash
But at least one server offers EXTERNAL even if the cert doesn't match, then expects dialback to be attempted after <{sasl}failure>
peter
What aspect of XEP-0178 are you wondering about? The interaction with dialback or the core functionality?
peter
Ah, right.
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peter
Hrm, that seems less than ideal.
Kev
Zash: Us? I'd say that's a bug. I'd say it's always a bug to advertise external and not have it succeed.
peter
We might want to take a look at how 178, 220, and 344 interact.
Zash
ejabberd
Zash
don't forget 288 :)
peter
Well yeah.
peter
That too. :-)
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Kev
288 interacts by not having interoperable implementations :D
peter
LOL
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Zash
IIRC the rationale was to be able to report certificate validation errors back with the SASL failure, which seems sensible
Kev
We'll be redoing S2S in M-Link shortly and I'm seriously wondering if there's value in us (re-)implementing 288.
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peter
If we just used the blockchain, this would all be easy. https://medium.com/originprotocol/introducing-origin-messaging-decentralized-secure-and-auditable-13c16fe0f13e
Kev
Not using blockchain was our second big mistake.
Kev
Sorry, third.
Kev
Our second was not using bittorrent.
Zash
Blockchain based PubSub over BitTorrent!
Kev
And our first was not using yaml (I assume JSON must be going out of fashion by now).
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peter
JSON is Forever™
waqas
MongoDB is webscale, etc
waqas
Kev: A little curious about what "redoing S2S in M-Link" would result in
waqas
Just a code cleanup, or something beyond that?
Kev
waqas: Nothing visible, just tidying up some things internally.
waqas
Got it
Kev
Well, nothing visible from the protocol side.
Kev
But enhancing support for our non-Internet type routing scenarios.
waqas
That sounds neat
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Kev
Yeah, some of this stuff is genuinely difficult and interesting.
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Zash
288 seems like it'd be beneficial for some of those
Zash
also helps in some cases like where the server is behind a NAT or moving around without updating DNS
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Kev
In those sorts of cases you probably don't want to S2S at all :)
Zash
read: I like being able to run a server on my laptop and have it work even when I visit people
Kev
(Probably you want 361 in most of those cases)
Kev
(X2X)
Kev
Except the 'moving laptop pretending to be a server' case possibly.
Kev
Although even 288 isn't enough to save you there.
Zash
Not perfect but it works
Kev
Sometimes.
Kev
I suspect that you'd find that a clustered server would give you partial service, depending on the model.
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Kev
It'd be quite reasonable for a cluster to want one S2S session per node, rather than a giant mesh of session routing.
Zash
Since I do this mostly to test stuff locally, it only needs to work sometimes, ie when I'm testing.
Kev
But now I'm vanishing.
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pep.
> Kev> And our first was not using yaml (I assume JSON must be going out of fashion by now).
Wasn't yaml a superset of json
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Zash
yaml is a superset of everything
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Maranda
Hmm M-Link and 288 in the same sentence, did Bidi ever work in it to begin with? 🤔😜👹
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moparisthebest
Has anyone ever seen or heard of MAM between different devices connected to the same account?
moparisthebest
Someone in another muc was surprised omemo didn't work this way
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moparisthebest
(he didn't use those words of course, more like why don't I have full history on new device B when device A has full history)
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, it’d then be trivial for the server (“the attacker”) to obtain the logs of things it shouldn’t have had access to.
Link Mauve
At some point we could also drop the act and just implement OMEMO in the server.
moparisthebest
Link Mauve: well presumably it would reencrypt, but yea still kind of breaks PFS