SyndaceI thought about offline history sync a little. It would not break PFS if the sync had to be confirmed by the sending device. Like:
Your device "Phone" requested your message history with "User" (someUser@jabber.org). Do you want to send it to him?
> Yes
> Yes and allow all requests by "Phone" for the next 15 Minutes
> No
> No and never allow any request by "Phone"
Like this new devices could sync the history from old devices and then go on with OMEMO just as usual. This would be a one-time sync when a new device first logs in.
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SyndaceSigh, ">" is for citing... My formatting :(
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SyndaceShould replace "offline history" with "local history" probably
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moparisthebestSyndace: yep that is what he expected to happen
moparisthebestI tried to explain that nothing does that now, but it could be standardized and implemented
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!XSF_MartinSyndace: I would like that. Would solve the usability issue with pfs
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danielIf you care about history (I personally don't use jabber like that and prefer email for things I need a permanent record of, but I understand why people do) PFS in general and OMEMO in particular might simply not be the right tool
danielUse something like OX
danielThe scenarios where PFS are beneficial are extremely niche
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!XSF_Martindaniel: ox is gpg? Omemo had the advantage to just tell people 'turn omemo' what is easier than telling to install openpgpchain (or what it is called), create key, enable PGP, choose key...
Is this easier now with the gpg SOC project?
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danielWell ox can be better integrated into the client. Clients would create their own keys and keys can be retrieved over xmpp instead of external key servers
!XSF_Martin> The scenarios where PFS are beneficial are extremely niche
True, for me e2e is important, Pfs not. But omemo had the better usability except the pfs issues.
danielSo yeah UX should in a way be even better than omemo
danielBecause of the better handling of Re retrievable history
danielAnd multiple devices sharing the same key
!XSF_Martindaniel: will you include it in conv? Or have you already?
danielI have things that are higher on my priority list and I always said I want different people to lead the way with that (and they have) but I'm not generally opposed
danielI'd rather include that then some weird c2c mam with e2ee
MattJ1) Topics for decisions: Proposed priorities for 2018-19 board
MattJFirstly, thanks for reviewing the survey results and getting the ball rolling on this nyco
nycono pb
nycoI regret this is late, I should have done something earlier
MattJSome concrete items in your proposal:
MattJ1/ we keep/increase the effort on XEPs and engaging the community => SCAM and the CommTeam?
nycoso, thx for the survey, this helps a lot
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nycoyeah, makes me think we should measure teams progress in some way
number of summits, meetups, hackathons, sprints, tweets, etc.
MattJI think we're doing fine for XEP production, I feel like we have quite a number of authors these days, which is healthy
nycofilling our current channels (Twitter?) with relevant content, and probably add one or two more
MattJLast I heard the newsletter is doing well also, with a healthy growing subscriber count
nycowhere is the nb of subscribers?
GuusSCAM has been pretty dormant though - that could use some reviving
MattJI don't think it's public, but I asked JC a few weeks ago
GuusI actually had an idea or two on that.
nycoplease
nycohow much, MattJ ?
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nycohow many, sorry
MattJI don't remember
nycohehehe
nyco1 ? or 2 ? 😉
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nycoseriously, tens? hundreds? thousands?
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MattJHeh, I honestly don't remember, sorry
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MattJI was just scanning my logs but can't find it
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MattJI've asked him again
nycothx
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GuusLet's keep the recommendations from us to next board somewhat broad: "Improve community engagement by explicitly tasking SCAM and Comm WT, and facilitate where needed."
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MattJGuus, I think that's sensible
MattJnyco, currently 141 subscribers
nycogood, thx
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GuusI'm not sure if a recommendation to not change something makes sense, but we can let the record of this meeting show that based on the outcome of the user survey, this board chooses to not change its position on keeping the XSF implementation neutral.
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nycowe could easily reach out and pass the arbitrary 200 mark
MattJThat seems sensible to me, yes
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GuusI'm unsure what to make of what I believe was Nyco's last item: "we delegate and we call for effort to develop support of developers and outreach beyond the XMPP community"
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Guuswhat does it mean exactly?
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nycothe neutrality comes back very often, so I guess we have something to do here
nycofrom my propositions:
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nyco== Implementation neutrality ==
Given the above and the survey responders have shared+mixed views and opinions, I (Nÿco) propose to stay as it is today.
Given the past discussions and perceived rough consensus, it would be nice if someone added that tag "active"/"dormant" to software projects.
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nycothus we keep neutrality, still helping people chose, avoiding inactive/dormant projects, which could be woken up or taken over later
Guusnyco, I feel that we are already doing both.
Guuswe are currently netural (no change there), and the software listing on our website needs to be renewed every year
nycohttps://xmpp.org/software/clients.html has no active vs dormant label
Guusthat has considerably dropped the amount of inactive projects
GuusI feel that we're not going to improve much on what we have with this, without getting bogged down in endless discussions on what exactly qualifies as 'inactive' or 'active'
GuusI suggest we don't improve on that further. What we have works fine-ish.
MattJYes, I'm with that
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Guus(the list on our website is not nearly as bad as it was 1 year ago)
Guusor it's been a bit longer perhaps
nycoan incremental improvement, given our lack of resources, that is very good indeed
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MattJI think we won't have much time to discuss more today
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MattJI can note the things we agreed on here in the minutes, and the things we may still need to discuss
Guuswfm
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MattJOk, moving on quick...
MattJI see these topics: ED search, fundraising/finances, board tenure
MattJAnyone want to discuss any of these in particular?
Guusnot me
nycotenure for me
nycook
MattJOk, I'd like to touch on board tenure
MattJ2) Board tenure
nycowe're a majority 😉
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MattJAfter reviewing the discussions on the list, I think I'm leaning in favour of not changing anything
MattJAt least nothing that drastic
nycoI feel like even though we'd like to improve, things would be too complex, in other terms weak RoI
besides I feel like we have a natural and healthy rotation
GuusI didn't find any consensus on list.
MattJNo, I don't think it reached a consensus - I think that's for the board to reach
GuusI still do think we should find a way to be more productive
Guuson changing / prolonging tenure explicitly, I ment, Mattj
MattJYes
nycooh yeah, commitment, too many absences, too short meetings, non-productive meetings, no meetings properly prepared, no followup, no measure
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MattJWe're all volunteers, it's a volunteer-based organisation, that's always going to be tricky
GuusI'm not saying we need to work harder. Maybe we can be smarter about some things though
MattJThat's partly why I started the year trying to get the fundraising stuff straightened out, because it's one of our biggest failures right now I think
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GuusOne thing that bothers me is that various people use terms as 'unthankful' and 'burn out' when describing work for the XSF
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MattJand what can we do to fix that?
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GuusI don't perceive it as such, but it's worrying me that others do.
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nycoI do not believe personnally it is 'unthankful' as it is somehow rewarding
also given our amount of work, it is definitely far from 'burn out'
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MattJThere's a bunch of "boring" tasks to be completed by relatively few people
GuusMattJ, unsure - give more credits where due might be a starter.
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nycopat xep ? 😉
Guusmaybe something for next meeting
GuusI got to run
nycoyeah, cool debate to have
nycoyes, it is already 16:00
nycothx both of you
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Guusalso, I will _not_ be able to make +1w
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nycoI can
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MattJOk, well we'll mark it in the calendar anyway
Guusok
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MattJMeeting over, thanks both
Guusthank you
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flowIs there a good reason why xep333 requires the marker message to contain the original <thread/>?