XSF Discussion - 2018-09-16

  1. neshtaxmpp


  2. neshtaxmpp


  3. neshtaxmpp

    my friend need help for xep-0368

  4. neshtaxmpp


  5. neshtaxmpp

    my friend has apache2 how he can make it work.

  6. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: haven't seen that one, there is also https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368

  7. moparisthebest

    Nothing specific to web server involved though if you use sslh

  8. neshtaxmpp

    moparisisthbest... dude dont know we are trying from 4 hours run sslh and cant run on debian. thrre is not decent manuals

  9. moparisthebest

    That's not my experience, what's the problem

  10. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest we dont have decent manuals how to do it.

  11. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: copy paste the example from the wiki I linked

  12. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest‎ first we find this: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS aqnd this is false, this is second: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 and here they say first is false.

  13. moparisthebest

    What is false

  14. moparisthebest

    On the second link

  15. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest‎: not according with truth or fact; incorrect. made to imitate something in order to deceive. "the trunk had a false bottom"

  16. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest my friend use apache2

  17. Maranda


  18. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: I can fix that page though, so I'd something is wrong let me know

  19. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: so what? Use the sslh example not the nginx example

  20. moparisthebest

    It's sslh OR nginx, not both

  21. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest it dont work. when my friend use wiki xmpp and start sslh it comment error on line 16

  22. neshtaxmpp

    error line 16 is this: );

  23. neshtaxmpp

    bellow: { host: ""; port: "443"; },

  24. neshtaxmpp

    and sslh refused to start

  25. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: are you running the minimum version it requires?

  26. neshtaxmpp

    my friend download from debian apt-get install sslh

  27. moparisthebest

    Either that or you don't have ipv4 on that box

  28. moparisthebest

    So check the version

  29. neshtaxmpp

    my proposition was maybe he dont have installed sslh alpn, but there is no sslh with alpn

  30. moparisthebest

    'debian' goes from ancient to new

  31. neshtaxmpp

    sslh -V: sslh-fork 1.18-1

  32. moparisthebest

    That should work, run it as verbose as possible and look for errors

  33. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest my friend question is: in /et/default/sslh what is correct:

  34. neshtaxmpp

    #DAEMON_OPTS="-F /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg"

  35. neshtaxmpp

    or this: DAEMON_OPTS="--user sslh --listen --ssh --ssl --pidfile /var/run/sslh/sslh.pid"

  36. moparisthebest

    No you want to use the config file

  37. moparisthebest

    But don't worry about that for now, run it directly from the command line to see if it works

  38. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest he know but first manual state he should change for that he ask.

  39. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest what are the command to run it directy. me friend use service sslh start there it comment error line 16

  40. moparisthebest

    You want to use the config file

  41. moparisthebest

    Not specify anything else on command line

  42. moparisthebest

    Just try it

  43. moparisthebest

    It won't blow up your computer if you pick wrong options

  44. neshtaxmpp

    so my friend write: sslh and it comment this:

  45. neshtaxmpp

    At least one target protocol must be specified.

  46. moparisthebest

    Try help and see how to use a config file

  47. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest run with sslh.cfg: /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg:16:syntax error

  48. neshtaxmpp

    maybe this is line 16 " there is );

  49. moparisthebest

    Maybe try commenting out

  50. neshtaxmpp

    commenthing this: ( { host: ""; port: "443"; }, );

  51. moparisthebest

    Whatever, just try things, like I said it won't explode

  52. neshtaxmpp


  53. daniel

    Maybe the last `,` is too much

  54. daniel

    If it's like json

  55. neshtaxmpp

    comment out ); it comment other error: /etc/sslh/sslh.cfg:25:syntax error

  56. neshtaxmpp

    error line 25 is this: protocols:

  57. daniel

    Probably look at other examples from the sslh website

  58. neshtaxmpp

    daniel my paste it 100 % 1:1

  59. neshtaxmpp

    my friend

  60. moparisthebest

    Ah could be, try removing last comma

  61. moparisthebest

    daniel: does conversations.im use sslh anymore?

  62. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest you mean from here: { host: ""; port: "443"; },

  63. daniel

    moparisthebest: no

  64. daniel

    Ejabberd does it natively now

  65. daniel

    And we have a second IP for http

  66. moparisthebest

    That is where the error is isn't it neshtaxmpp

  67. moparisthebest

    daniel: ah nice, yea nginx is an option now too

  68. moparisthebest

    Haven't tested it but I assume it's faster

  69. neshtaxmpp

    daniel but compliance.conversations.im complaint xmpp over tls is not enabled.

  70. neshtaxmpp

    daniel for that my friend want to enable xmpp over tls.

  71. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest in line 25 there is no coma

  72. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: different topics

  73. Zash

    So, they don't care about why, they just want all the green?

  74. daniel

    Zash: obviously

  75. Maranda

    neshtaxmpp, that checks only srv records afair for 368

  76. Zash

    I find it somewhat dishonest of that site to advertise itself as "XMPP compliance", when it's more like "Conversations server feature wishlist/requirements"

  77. neshtaxmpp

    zash if you start think. yes xmpp over tls is important becouse ther is airport who block port 5222 so xmpp will not work if it is not enabled.

  78. neshtaxmpp

    maranda what check... the web site... i get it from pix-art.de

  79. daniel

    Zash: that doesn't have such a nice ring to it tho

  80. Maranda

    neshtaxmpp, O_o

  81. Maranda

    ‎[16:23:36] ‎neshtaxmpp‎: daniel but compliance.conversations.im complaint xmpp over tls is not enabled.

  82. neshtaxmpp

    so guys is it important to enable xmpp over tls or not... please help my friend enable it, if this is important.

  83. Maranda

    "that checks only for srv records afair"

  84. neshtaxmpp

    maranda srv " you mean dns, newbiew will not understand it, you have to be simpler " are enabled.

  85. neshtaxmpp

    dns are like this: _xmpps-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 5 0 443 xmpp.example.org. _xmpp-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 10 0 443 xmpp.example.org. _xmpp-client._tcp.example.org. 86400 IN SRV 15 0 5222 xmpp.example.org.

  86. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest so what you referr with " the last coma " ," "

  87. lovetox

    neshtaxmpp, it seems it a problem with parsing the config file, it should not be hard to find out what the syntax error is here

  88. lovetox

    just look at other examples of config files on the net, and see where its different

  89. Maranda

    actually it does, nm

  90. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox for hackers and developers it is not problems, but for peoples who are not hackers and developers this is matter issue

  91. lovetox

    listen: ( { host: "thelonious"; port: "443"; } );

  92. lovetox

    there this line

  93. lovetox

    after the } remove the " , "

  94. lovetox

    try again

  95. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox ome moment.

  96. lovetox

    dont copy what i posted into your config, it was just an example from the net, to show you how its different to the one you are using

  97. lovetox

    ( { host: ""; port: "443"; }, );

  98. lovetox

    see there is a " , " at the end

  99. neshtaxmpp

    so my fiend remove "," as lovetox suggestion and not it comment other things.

  100. neshtaxmpp

    so where is decent manual that my friend peter can follow and configure sslh

  101. lovetox

    i guess on google if the wiki is not enough for you

  102. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox this is issue: becouse this is second manual that we found: first was that: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS and second was that: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368 in second they comment first web site is false.

  103. neshtaxmpp

    Another (incorrectly named) example can be found at the Debian Wiki

  104. neshtaxmpp

    and debian wiki is this: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingProsody#XMPP_over_HTTPS

  105. lovetox

    the name is incorrect

  106. lovetox

    not the example i guess

  107. neshtaxmpp

    the name is false.

  108. lovetox

    do you think someone would link to examples that are wrong?

  109. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox yes fake informations will do.

  110. neshtaxmpp

    this is not first time my friends found fakes web site complaing do this and it will do...

  111. daniel

    Turn on your brain for a second try to understand the syntax of the config and fix it

  112. neshtaxmpp

    include i had to safe my friend from 2 day seeking in front to make his server work, becouse he follow fake news.

  113. lovetox

    im not sure to what "name" the author refers, but i dont think it means, "This example is wrong"

  114. daniel

    Semantically the example file is probably correct

  115. neshtaxmpp

    daniel my friends are not hackers and developers they are just normal users who want to have they privacy... much to look in the code it will be the same.

  116. moparisthebest

    So for the xmpp wiki I adapted my config, I could have accidentally left in an extra comma

  117. lovetox

    neshtaxmpp, they dont need to be hackers or developers, but they have to learn a minimum about tools and how they work and how to configure them

  118. moparisthebest

    I'll check later at a computer

  119. lovetox

    you cant run a xmpp server with ZERO knowledge about computers

  120. Maranda

    what lovetox said,

  121. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox belive me they can do it.

  122. moparisthebest

    Yea you have to be comfortable with trying things

  123. Maranda

    Your complaints sound very preposterous to me tbh.

  124. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox, moparisbest when there is 100 % true manual everything will work.

  125. moparisthebest

    For sslh specific problems, have you tried sslh website/docs

  126. Maranda

    Mistakes != Fakes

  127. neshtaxmpp

    maranda Your complaints sound very preposterous to me tbh.

  128. daniel

    There is a lesson in the fact that a lot of people tripped over the bad examples in XEP 156

  129. Maranda

    there can be errors in manuals too

  130. daniel

    Both of them...

  131. Maranda

    and if you have that minimal knowledge you need, you can easily spot 'em.

  132. neshtaxmpp

    daniel i have compiled lineage latst 14.1 without developer knowledge. how i do that.

  133. daniel

    I'm not sure what lesson though...

  134. neshtaxmpp

    daniel i say it before...

  135. neshtaxmpp

    maranda how person will compile 100 % working lineage without developer knowledge.

  136. moparisthebest

    I'll ensure the sslh example on the xmpp wiki is correct later, but it's close enough that no one has complained in years so

  137. Maranda

    neshtaxmpp, no idea never compiled Lineage.

  138. lovetox

    neshtaxmpp, what is the problem with the config file on the debian site ?

  139. lovetox

    does it also show syntax errors?

  140. Maranda

    or any other Android ROM

  141. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox wait im gonna my friend what was problem with debian wiki... something was false.

  142. Maranda thinks this usage of false is rather... unpolite at least :P

  143. neshtaxmpp

    my friend say: he follow debian wiki... and when run sslh apache2 stop working... when apache2 start working sslh stop working all the same: port is busy

  144. moparisthebest

    Maranda: I assume that's a language thing rather than get offended meh

  145. neshtaxmpp

    for that i find my friend this second site: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368

  146. Maranda

    moparisthebest, me knows thnx :P

  147. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: right you can't have 2 servers on same port

  148. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: Apache must listen on a different port

  149. moparisthebest

    I use 442 in that example

  150. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest wait... so you mean... running sslh with 442... and apache2 runnin on port 443

  151. daniel

    Or on a different IP

  152. daniel

    The other way round

  153. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: you have to read and understand the example rather than copy+paste

  154. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest why in xmpp example they dont say " sslh has to use port 442, becouse it will be used by apache 2 port 443 "

  155. neshtaxmpp

    moparisthebest so sslh will liste in port 442 and apache2 in port 443 -> this mean, when someone say open yourdomain.com it will open port 442 - > 443 and will open website

  156. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: it says Apache or nginx on 442 right?

  157. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest ‎[04:46:33 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: neshtaxmpp: right you can't have 2 servers on same port ‎[04:46:55 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: neshtaxmpp: Apache must listen on a different port

  158. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: read the sslh config comments on xmpp wiki

  159. moparisthebest

    It specifically says that

  160. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest so i see why there is no understand.

  161. moparisthebest

    I gotta go now, I'll review chat later though

  162. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest... you base on conclusion that giving small information can peoples understand they understand it is gonna work.

  163. lovetox

    neshtaxmpp, we assume that this is stuff that only people touch that have a minimal knowledge of what they do

  164. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest if i say 400 W. motor will fit in... do you know where it will fit.

  165. lovetox

    but feel free to write a step for step guide, that even your grandmother can execute

  166. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox That is exactly what peoples want. Step by step, becouse this is how linux work, linux for everybody.

  167. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox linus in interview say debian is too complex...

  168. lovetox

    yeah if "people" want it, they should write it

  169. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox they will write if they know what to write.

  170. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox again how i say how i without developer knowledge i compile full lineage 20188 version.

  171. lovetox

    a endless circle, so you are saying without guide you cant learn something, and because of that you cant write guides?

  172. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox do you know what it pathfinder...

  173. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox this is endless circle for you... i know it is gonna help other peoples.

  174. neshtaxmpp

    nobody undertand that i came here with my friend seek how to run sslh and you guys just jump in aggresive manner.

  175. lovetox

    im not saying you shouldnt help other people

  176. lovetox

    but to tell other people that they should help other people because you think they dont help enough ..

  177. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox how much it will get from your precious time to write " apache has to be on different port "

  178. lovetox

    write it yourself

  179. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox i;m sure you didnt catch it.... but lets ignore this for the moment.

  180. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox with pleasure will write it if i know how.

  181. lovetox

    great !

  182. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox if i was hacker i will bring on light what militarry do... peoples deserve to know the true...

  183. neshtaxmpp

    but that is other topic.

  184. lovetox

    its seems this is a reoccuring thing with you, always "IF i was a .. ", "IF i had the knowledge"

  185. lovetox

    seems you should do something about that IF

  186. Maranda

    I think there's some misunderstandment due to some language issues, like telling people they write "false" things isn't the best way to start an argument even if it's not intentionally offensive, it sounds so ;)

  187. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox you sound like usa " american "

  188. neshtaxmpp

    maranda everybody think differently. I think women kick peoples... so you see everybody think differently.

  189. Maranda

    . . . never mind.

  190. neshtaxmpp

    lovetox peoples who calculate other peoples... they try be mastermind... but how i say... education in 21 century is worse. there is no respect and humankind.

  191. neshtaxmpp

    we came we peace... and solution.

  192. neshtaxmpp

    and we receive... aggresions and manipulations...

  193. neshtaxmpp

    it doesnt mean if i;m african, ot german, or serbian...

  194. neshtaxmpp

    it is just how we are... multicultural... if you can't respect foreigener... then you can't respect yourself.

  195. flow

    neshtaxmpp, I've read most of the backlog and couldn't find any aggression. Mostly a discussion involving a language barrier

  196. neshtaxmpp

    flow... [04:58:42 PM] ‎lovetox‎: its seems this is a reoccuring thing with you, always "IF i was a .. ", "IF i had the knowledge" ‎[04:58:50 PM] ‎lovetox‎: seems you should do something about that IF

  197. flow

    and possibly some more politeness

  198. neshtaxmpp

    flow " [04:46:10 PM] ‎moparisthebest‎: Maranda: I assume that's a language thing rather than get offended meh"

  199. neshtaxmpp

    flow... so this is how i comment " politeness " this is not politeness.

  200. neshtaxmpp

    im sure there is wonderfull peoples...

  201. flow

    neshtaxmpp, sorry I wanted to write "and possibly *missing* some more politeness"

  202. neshtaxmpp

    flow sorry i wanted to write " bad peoples " but it was writed aggresions and manipulations.

  203. flow

    and I ultimately lost track if you are now able to run sslh or not

  204. neshtaxmpp

    flow my friend in the moment is in stand off, we try sslh from maybe 5 hours and no go...

  205. neshtaxmpp

    until someone comment remove ","

  206. flow

    neshtaxmpp, the syntax and especially the error reporting mechanisms of many configuration files is often a source of frustration, if it is of any help

  207. neshtaxmpp

    hackers and developers on you peoples depend... if you explain it 100 % peoples will undestand it. If you write it bad, false it will not work. So now we need to exit becouse there is much too negative energy ...

  208. neshtaxmpp

    flow... hmmm is this indirect my fiend is frustrated... no my friend is not frustrated...

  209. neshtaxmpp

    flow... how i say this is 3 time... i dont have developer knowledge and compiled 100 % include it run in the moment on my mother smartphone lineage latest version. how i do this.

  210. neshtaxmpp

    flow if manual was bad writed, peoples will not make it. But if it was explained step by step i assure you will make it.

  211. flow

    possibly because compiling lineage is close to following a cooking recipe

  212. neshtaxmpp

    flow include to be for other peoples example: the manual of developer process was in cyrrilic

  213. flow

    it is not really comperable to complexity that is involved with a proper XMPP service setup

  214. neshtaxmpp

    not english language

  215. neshtaxmpp

    flow so this person who write in non-english cyrrilic language was so correctly writed that lineage was compiled.

  216. Maranda

    Holger, what's the default max number of stanzas queued in ejabberd's csi out of curiousity?

  217. neshtaxmpp

    flow... if peoples still try bypass what other peoples tell, and dont allow they ego win they will understand the peace can be possible.

  218. Holger

    Maranda: 100

  219. flow

    neshtaxmpp, I'm sorry, I am a bit lost. But if your point is "we need better manuals and easier to use software" then I'm 100% with you, but that goal is not easy to achive for assorted reasons

  220. Maranda

    Holger, ok thanks

  221. Maranda wonders if he set that a bit too high.

  222. neshtaxmpp

    flow i just remember. I was with a woman, that she directly hate men. Every time " look how this men is smiling, look how this men has children, look how this men look, and i told her. Piss off if i see you again i will complaint in justice system jail you.

  223. neshtaxmpp

    flow. i had friend from gym. who was guy guy, smiling... developer and hacker... one week i didn;t see him and do you know what his face was...

  224. Maranda

    I'm just not sure how UX pleasing it is in a mobile client to see a massive amount of message coming in during the backlog update after state is switched back to active though.

  225. Holger

    Maranda: Easy way of eating tons of memory :-) Also mobile clients probably won't appreciate being flooded after going in the foreground again, yes.

  226. Maranda

    (although it will help on battery saving)

  227. Holger

    Maranda: You woulnd't usually queue actual *messages* though, right?

  228. Maranda

    Holger, I'm trying to queue groupchat messages until highlighted.

  229. Holger


  230. neshtaxmpp

    flow his face was aggresive... he didn't was he... i talk with him and he told me his boss. So from guy smiling he was change in assasin... why so. in 21 centuty happy dont exist. there is no respect anymore, without respect and peace peoples will be more aggresive.

  231. Maranda

    Holger, it's configurable via adhoc, just deciding how useful it is on the battery.

  232. Holger

    Maranda: But it's the default?

  233. Maranda

    Holger, for now yes, that's what I need to decide based on usefulness.

  234. Holger

    Maranda: Won't make the typical WhatsApp user happy I guess.

  235. Maranda

    cause UX it doesn't look stellar indeed.

  236. Holger

    "XMPP just never works. Now groupchat notifications are broken."

  237. neshtaxmpp

    flow... and if say how bad was my life book will be little to write... iclude i was illegaly investagiated by secret service for something that if you didn't like love in woman. but one day she will be in jail, for much secret service she can work there is jail for them too.

  238. SamWhited

    Holger, Maranda: I missed the beginning of this, so pardon me if this was explained, but does your system if a phone comes online for its regularly scheduled radio time and does a stream resume presumably it gets the queue dump then too?

  239. Maranda

    Holger, well conversations only actually shows a toaster notifications if I get highlighted anyways. That won't break in that case.

  240. Maranda

    Holger, well conversations only actually shows a toaster notification if I get highlighted anyways. That won't break in that case.

  241. Holger

    Maranda: That's not the default in Conversations, at least not for private groups.

  242. daniel

    Maranda: Conversations will notify by default on all messages in private groups

  243. daniel

    Which is the type of group it will create by default

  244. Maranda


  245. Holger

    SamWhited: The question is whether the CSI queue is dumped on 0198 resume?

  246. SamWhited

    Holger: yah, or on CSI active or whatever signal you're using

  247. Maranda

    SamWhited, it's not the same queue but "yes"

  248. SamWhited

    Whatever the message queue is, yah. Thanks

  249. Holger

    Yes, both on CSI <active/> and on SM <resume/>.

  250. SamWhited

    That seems like it would be "good enough" to me

  251. SamWhited

    You get your messages once a minute or whatever it is, and if, in the mean time, something important like a highlight happens you can get an out of band push or whatever the case may be.

  252. Holger

    SamWhited: Once a minute?

  253. SamWhited

    Holger: whatever it is; I don't know what Android does by default

  254. SamWhited

    But I think it's every minute or two

  255. Holger

    Not sure what sort of Android event you mean.

  256. SamWhited

    Holger: I assumed that's what you were talking about; Android gives every app a window of time every minute or two when the radio is on and it is allowed to use it.

  257. SamWhited

    Its part of its battery saving measures.

  258. Holger

    I wasn't aware. No idea whether Conversations listens to that.

  259. SamWhited

    So presumably a message queue would only build up until the app could get to its network window and do a resume or a MAM query or whatever it decides is the best way to fetch messages for a particular room

  260. SamWhited

    And being smart about highlights would negate the feeling on the users part that it was no longer realtime, I would think

  261. SamWhited

    Anyways, just thinking out loud; I'd be really curious to see the results of your battery saving experiment Maranda.

  262. Holger

    Well no idea, as I said I wasn't aware of these network windows. My assumption was that Conversations either manages to keep the TCP connection alive, or if it doesn't, waits for FCM notifications.

  263. Maranda

    SamWhited, sure, you actually made me find a bug too.

  264. SamWhited

    There has been a new major Android version or two since I looked at any of this too, so it's possible I'm just spouting out of date lore. I vaguely remember daniel saying he was going to update to the new battery savig things, which could be different.

  265. Holger

    SamWhited: But Conversations' implementation isn't really relevant anyway. The server can't assume the client will behave one way or another, so I think it's hairy for the server's CSI/push code to suppress groupchat notifications if you're not highlighted.

  266. SamWhited

    I dunno, the server has to pick some behavior for the client to work against; this seems as good of a behavior as any. It at least gives the option for mobile clients to manage their network usage efficiently.

  267. SamWhited

    (I'm also operating under the assumption that this only applies to mobile, but I have no idea if there's even a reasonable way for the server to know that)

  268. neshtaxmpp

    my friend looking closely in https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368: find this # 442 is a https port (nginx, apache, etc) " If writer think that write only 442 is a https " reader will not know what this mean. becouse in first please when my friend was reading say what is this: 442, when apache2 run on 443, but after conversatoin with didn't remember name is some sort or filter becouse apache2 use 443 and sslh need to pass this information from 442 to 443. In the moment it didn't explained better, becouse include it lost in writing this message

  269. Holger

    SamWhited: Sorry but this sounds weirdo to me.

  270. Holger

    SamWhited: You can't seriously argue the server's CSI code should blindly assume the client will go <active/> once a minute just because there's some Android feature some Android client might or might not be using.

  271. SamWhited

    It has nothing to do with an Android feature specifically, but yah, giving them the option to enable/disable sending large volumes of messages (whether that's with a stream resume, an active CSI element, etc.) seems reasonable.

  272. SamWhited

    I don't know what specific configuration will work best though with what specific platforms

  273. daniel

    Holger, SamWhited: what Holger is mostly correct. The doze windows are much wider apart than a minute. So Conversations tries to get an exception or if that doesn't work rely on push

  274. daniel

    Push will always wake up the device

  275. daniel

    No matter the doze state

  276. SamWhited

    Maybe only sending a push every X messages (unless there's a highlight or other important event) is the trigger then

  277. SamWhited

    I like the idea of queuing messages anyways and would love to see how that plays out. I doubt most people need strict realtime (or maybe you could be smart about the type of room: if it's a private room with 3 people in it, push for every message, if not every 3 minutes in which there are 100 messages, or something)

  278. Holger

    SamWhited: If we think clients should have the option to suppress/throttle actual message delivery then we need a new XEP, IMO.

  279. SamWhited

    I don't think the clients need the option, that's too granular. I think servers just need to be smart about the state of a client

  280. Holger

    SamWhited: This is not about strict realtime. With Maranda's solution you won't be notified of groupchat messages until you re-open the app manually. At all.

  281. SamWhited

    And clients can of course work within that behavior to get whatever results they desire

  282. Holger

    Totally disagree :-)

  283. SamWhited

    Holger: that's what I'm questioning. You'll get it when doze wakes you up, or when you get a push notification as well

  284. SamWhited

    I'm wondering if that's "good enough"

  285. SamWhited

    I agree that if you only get it when you open the app that is a problem

  286. daniel

    Is battery consumption even a problem?

  287. Maranda

    Holger, or until you get hilighted visually that'll affect the number on the conversations icon

  288. Holger

    SamWhited: I'm basically never mentioned explicitly in the WhatsApp groups I'm in. Yet I definitely want notifications. "Hey all, the meeting tomorrow is cancelled!"

  289. daniel

    That can be fixed by limiting the messages

  290. Holger

    SamWhited: And I believe that's an expectation many typical WhatsApp users have.

  291. SamWhited

    Holger: but do you need it right this minute, or 5 minutes from now? I suspect that for most people a few minutes is okay.

  292. Maranda

    Which I'm not sure about the usefulness of, but if by default private groups always toast well

  293. SamWhited

    But what daniel said is also a good point, I have no idea maybe this is solving a problem that doesn't exist.

  294. SamWhited

    which is why I'd be curious to see the result of the battery drain experiment Maranda mentioned

  295. SamWhited

    I should find an IRC bridge and subscribe to #arch or some other huge active channel and see what happens to my battery

  296. daniel

    There are a few mobile specific optimizations that I would like to see eventually. But throttling the number of stanzas is not really one of them

  297. Maranda

    SamWhited, it's configurable via adhoc anyways here it's just question to decide if it should be by default enabled or not.

  298. SamWhited

    Maranda: does this already exist somewhere that I could experiment with?

  299. Maranda

    SamWhited, I added also the configurable option to filter all bodyless chat states in CSI in any state

  300. Maranda

    Metronome's tip but I need to fix a quirk with SM I just found :P

  301. Maranda

    (or rather you made me find)

  302. SamWhited

    Glad I could be of service

  303. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: clearly if you expect sslh to multiplex 443 it has to listen on 443

  304. moparisthebest

    That doesn't need spelled out

  305. moparisthebest

    You don't need to be a programmer, but you do need to understand ports to host services

  306. Maranda

    SamWhited, ok fixed the possible desync with SM queue, now you can play with it if you want ;)

  307. Maranda

    ... and also fixed inadvertedly broken presence queues 🤷‍♂️ hehe

  308. neshtaxmpp

    this is my friend log sslh: https://bgzashtita.es/tefter/?67c4fee71371a4b6#aoQA4OGoy4+iiqfa3hmXYe48ST8nyz1IDO+D9n2Ptag=

  309. Maranda

    SamWhited, ok all sorted the other thing I need to figure is how much resource usage increase that causes on the server and the right default queue limit to use before flushing, for now I'm going with a large default queue limit (1000)

  310. neshtaxmpp

    we are nearly there....

  311. neshtaxmpp

    Secure Connection Failed An error occurred during a connection to bgzashtita.es. SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length. Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG

  312. neshtaxmpp

    sslh[20369]: forward to ssl failed:connect: Connection refused it is becouse apache2 443 is bussy with sslh

  313. Maranda

    SamWhited: oh also this stuff non is also currently running on lightwitch.org you could create an account there too, sorry forgot

  314. Maranda


  315. Maranda growls about auto completion messing up

  316. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: if you come back, sslh must use port 443

  317. moparisthebest

    Meaning Apache has to go to another port, it doesn't have to be port 442 but it can't stay here

  318. neshtaxmpp

    moparisbest yes we know that from 30 min.

  319. moparisthebest

    2 computers isn't a problem, but that might mean if Apache isn't on the same server as sslh both can use 443

  320. moparisthebest

    Just put the actual hostname instead of localhost

  321. moparisthebest

    Sslh has to run on port 443

  322. moparisthebest

    Ah now I look insane like I'm taking to myself because you are whispering and I just noticed

  323. moparisthebest

    I blame that on daniel :D

  324. moparisthebest

    neshtaxmpp: you really only need sslh on 1 computer, probably the one publically accessible