XSF Discussion - 2018-09-20

Steve Kille: yes, that's why I said: you can have multiple different identities and disco extension forms in one result.

Not convinced yet you need node='mix' "to make this work".

indeed, merged information could work just as well

The problem I have with the current solution is that I can't just discover from an unknown JID that it is a MIX room. I'd have to know, somehow, for the MIX specific information.

ralphm: I don't have time to look at the MIX spec this week and consider this point. I will review next week. Shall I respond in the MUC or by email to the list?

I was already drafting it

ta

To be found at https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-September/035355.html

ralphm: ta. Will respond next week

Cool

SamWhited: battery usage reduction with heavy muc usage is consistent between 50-60% on my device with those optimizations using Conversations btw

Maranda: what optimizations?

I just had to adjust the queue max buffer amount to make it less detrimental to notifications as well

I don't understand

Ge0rG: gimme the time to type will you?

🤸‍♂️

Maranda: sorry, I misunderstood your sentence as a response to my question. If only we had threads!

Ge0rG: presence deduplicated queuing, filtering of bodyless message payloads, and queuing of all groupchat type messages except mentions basically (anything not meeting criterias triggers a flush)

Ge0rG: that's the optimization

Maranda: okay, nothing surprising here. What's the baseline you are measuring against?

(CSI obviously)

Maranda: also do you flush MUC OMEMO immediately?

Maranda: CSI is not a baseline, it's a signaling mechanism

(the "(CSI obviously)" was obviously not meant in response to your baseline request)

(because it had parenthesis and doesn’t make sense as an answer)

Maybe I should remove myself from the discussion then, I fail to process what I'm reading.

Ge0rG: for now I just tested on my server and gathered numbers from my own usage as I said, hard to find people willing to be sample subjects 😜

Maranda: you make a prosody module, I deploy it.

Ge0rG: 😆

I implement both (part of) SIFT and CSI in the same module while Prosody has several submodules hookin' on mod_csi so I'd have to look if porting of portions of the current code is viable

Maranda: what do you need SIFT for?

Ha, SIFT

Ge0rG: allowing clients to decide which stanzas to filter but since there're 0 implementations as usual I guess: "nothing"

SIFT was supposed to replace part of the featureset provided by Privacy Lists afair

> Maranda: you make a prosody module, I deploy it. Me too

> Ge0rG> Maranda: sorry, I misunderstood your sentence as a response to my question. If only we had threads! haha.

Who do we have today?

Hi!

\o

_o/

hi!

Ok, all we need now is Martin to appear :)

XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

0. Welcome + Agenda

Welcome all. Apologies for not being here for a fit.

bit

Things should be more quiet (schedule-wise) going forward.

no pb

Anything in particular we should discuss today?

Elections come to mind

Board prios... for next term

one sec, someone at door

https://trello.com/c/Al4GHsYy/311-proposed-prios-for-the-2018-2019-board-based-on-survey

how’s the survey going?

jonas’, results were posted here quite a while back

Current discussion is what actions to take based on the results

oh

I must’ve missed them

were they also posted to members@?

It's nearing the end of this term, but it would be good to get a head-start with some recommendations for the next Board

if not, posting them to members@ would be nice

Not sure, if not I can dig them up in a bit

Since we're kind of there:

The minutes should have linked to them, but our minutes have been a bit sketchy as of late

1. Survey

(back)

I read the summary on the Trello ticket. Seems reasonable.

Yeah, I think we generally agreed with that. Concrete actions are harder to recommend

Except I think the Board's first priority is always what is listed as 2 here: Organisation (9) => bureaucracy, funding

A lot of things circle back to our finance situation, at the end of the day

For 3 (standards development) we have Council and Editors

I think the key is for Board to enable these things to happen

I am indeed not sure what Board specifically can do itself for the other two points.

Right

We'd still need other people to make thing happen. E.g. I am really happy with the newsletter by JC and others

Well I think the big thing the survey highlighted for me is that everyone agrees there should be more IRL events

So basically we need to spice up SCAM

pep. organised an unofficial hackathon, which was great... and hopefully we will have some more

It was unclear whether these events can draw from SCAM, so I think that is one thing we can discuss

Actually, the should be

I'm not even sure it's unclear to me, just that it could be more explicit

(able to draw from SCAM)

Well, at least for promotion

but we have not much of protocol nor history, which makes it hard for people to know what to expect from SCAM

I don't want to speak for pep., but for example I suspect it could be clearer what process he would have needed to go through

if there are things needed, like materials, why not see if the XSF can help out there

I think things turned out just fine as they were (Collabora sponsored it generally), but for future reference at least it would be good to get this more organised

I think and believe we (XSF) should let go some stuff I mean software we are a bunch of low level developers, doing low level stuff, like protocols we are not bad at it (could be better, always) I think and believe we need to catalyse higher steps in the software stacks like bring in developers who are not protocol-minded or protocol-oriented we need software developers who are into better UX and UI we need to test and improve things end-to-end it may be time to revive "Modern XMPP" except there should be no "XMPP" in the title because once again that focusses on the protocol let's focus on chat and chat alone, start from here, improve things, one step at a time

Agreed - it's on one of my many to-do lists (with SCAM hat on)

what do you mean with "letting go software" ?

nyco, "Modern XMPP" (if you refer to my talk some time ago) is not dead, nor is it an XSF activity

I know

XMPP 2.0

and since it targets developers, neither should it be rebranded (though a user facing brand is a separate issue that the XSF may or may not want to tackle)

nyco: yes, I think the XSF remains primarily a standards organisation, and there's always been debate if we can/should be at the center of development

not "XMPP 2.0", because it focusses on the protocol

We made a more or less explicit choice here when we went from Jabber Software Foundation to XMPP Standards Foundation.

XSJ used to be JSF

oh the glorious days

There is a lot of uncertainty about the Jabber trademark... some people use it, some refuse to

ralphm: I don't understand, or see that debate. We're not developing software as the XSF - apart from some tooling for our own benefit?

we can start an informal movement, see where it goes

ralphm: was it an explicit decision back then?

Guus: well, for example, should we promote certain implementations?Tthat's what has come up numerous times.

nyco: do you have the man power for that?

not the XSF

ralphm, the survey fairly clearly indicated that people value the XSF's neutrality

Ralphm: but we do not, and agreed recently to will not change that.

Ge0rG that's what I am working on

Ge0rG: from my recollection, yes

Guus: indeed, and I think that supports what nyco said in his wall-of-text

I've called out for a new Jabber Software Foundation to care about UX and branding and supporting developers for some years now.

Ge0rG I know, let's just do it

Just like our protocol is distributed, there's no reason for a software organisation to exist next to the XSF

I'm not against people doing things like that - but that'll be out of scope of the XSF, won't it?

Ge0rG, calling out helps a lot :)

(so by all means, go for it, but lets not make it a topic here?)

ralphm, assume you meant "not to exist"

*not* to exist

there's no reason for a software organisation NOT to exist next to the XSF

Guus indeed, I think it is out of the scope of the XSF, not the XSF to decide

(well, we got that clear, phew)

I think everyone agrees with this, and pep. and I have been looking into it a little

I have some ideas, too, but not as part of the XSF indeed.

if we all agree that this is not a matter for the XSF and thus its board - let's move on? 🙂

Yep :)

yes

So, going back to the topic, we can conclude that we *do* want to continue supporting community events

For now, I'm looking forward to FOSDEM again.

Sorry I'm at work, can't follow all this, I'll try to reply later if necessary

FOSDEM + summit

As a FYI: the real-time peeps have requested a Realtime Devroom again, and I will do the same for the Lounge

2. FOSDEM + Summit

Thanks ralphm

Guus: let's get kicking for this, hopefully preparing better and getting more people there

agreed

Ideas welcome, of course

let's do that in SCAM context

(I want to ping Seve about some of his ideas he had last year)

scam@muc.xmpp.org as always

agreed

3. Elections

When is our tenure over?

It is September again, so I guess we need to invoke Alex to start up the process

Early November I think

ok

4. AOB

Anything else?

POSS ?

Paris Open Source Summit

or next meeting?

nyco, take that to SCAM?

SCAM first indeed

no need for the board to decide on that, I think?

then Board if needed

oh yes, of course, sorry

no AOB from me

5. Date of Next

+1W

6. Close

+1

Thanks all!

thx!

wfm

Thanks ralphm

Good to be back :-D

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Good to have you back :)

plz apply same magic to Martin

Oh, who can make minutes?

I'll add it to my backlog

Once I get going it's fine, I'll probably push them all out in a batch once I'm done with what I'm currently doing

yay

thx MattJ

MattJ, the last minutes sent to members@ only had "Draft a membership survey on priorities." :(

so... yeah

please re-send the survey results to members@ when you get around to it

ralphm, good points, I like it, +1 (on XEP-0369, disco#info things)