XSF Discussion - 2018-09-27

moparisthebest: https://blog.cloudflare.com/esni/ > As ISPs increasingly acquire media companies and ad targeting businesses, being able to mine the data flowing through their pipes is an increasingly attractive business for them and an increasingly troubling privacy threat to all of us.

nice

nobody had time to look into the website apparently

I’m back on it, I have a hunch what might have happened

I think I have a hotfix, waiting for the build to prove me either right or wrong :)

bear, can you please confirm that the content somebody reported missing is back?

hi everyone, I've posted a messages on standards a couple of days ago and I'd like some feedback before I start my work on he adjustements :) https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-September/035361.html

ugh Ge0rG , not the RFC I was following, it mentions that one of it's hard requirements was 'do not stick out' so they just... decided to stick out anyway...

still, they are correct if all the browsers support this, it'll no longer stick out

moparisthebest: it looks like you are responding to a different point than the one I made, but this is okay.

the other downside is the other RFC draft encrypted *all* extensions, so ALPN etc was free

ah well I agree with that Ge0rG , but if anything this proves what I said, encryption is the answer, not legislation

moparisthebest: you can't encrypt all the things. And if you try, governments will mandate backdoors

I disagree, I think you certainly can encrypt all the things

and, only bad governments, plus, they are already mandating backdoors aren't they?

Encryption does not exist in a vacuum.

https://www.caliopen.org/en/ > Privacy for all of your online correspondance. Caliopen collects in a single interface private messages from mobile apps (Twitter, Facebook), email, instant messaging, texts… I can't even...

moparisthebest: bad governments like the US of A?

so far USA hasn't mandated backdoors, only requested them

USA seems to have by far the best 'free speech' protections, which also relates to encryption, so hopefully it will be fine

Ge0rG that is the project from Laurent Chemla :p

edhelas, who is Laurent Chemla?

one of the founder of Gandi https://www.gandi.net/en https://twitter.com/laurentchemla

I see

but yeah Caliopen looks weird to me

edhelas: they plugged into the WA E2EE thread at https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1045045964245950465 and I wondered about their mystical "E2E with business model" pitch, just to land on _that_ page

XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

0. Welcome and agenda

Hi!

Who do we have?

oh hey!

_o/

Guus is here

(we were privately ch...

see?

;-)

MattJ?

nyco: my client lost the tab in which I was one-on-one chatting with you

dind't get the last two lines I think

Guus: no MAM?

I've been omemo'ed

Hey

ralphm: I can't see his contact / tab

Ok. Let's go

no, it's just that azxoraeiczhtrneipvhscrgxueygbuazeyogvxofbouezgxouyewrb

nyco, ok

Any particular agenda items?

https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

prios and executive?

ongoing topics, I think

is there any more for us to do with 'prios' ?

(I have no other agenda items)

I have none either

we should agree? reach a consensus?

1. Priorities

Ok. So I think the order as nyco wrote it on trello can be improved

yep, the card is too ra

raw

As I said last week, I think the item listed as 2. Organisation is our primary priority

(as Board)

Because that's basically what any Board should do

bureaucracy, funding: these are the keywords

I'd s/priority/responsibility/ I think for clarity

sure

unsure if we need to split hairs about which of these four topics needs to have highest priority. Can't we just word them nicely, and deliver them as "these are what we believe to be the most high-prio issues"?

Ok, but then the list would be like this:

Copy-paste: == Priorities == Developer/Operator Community (14) => sprints/hackathons Organisation (9) => bureaucracy, funding Protocol (9) => modernization Promotion (8) => usecases/showcases

Developer/Operator Community (14) => sprints/hackathons => that's for software developers, not the XSF, right?

Organisation (9) => bureaucracy, funding => that's for the XSF, especially the Board, correct?

Protocol (9) => modernization => that's for the Council, ok?

Promotion (8) => usecases/showcases => that's for SCAM, isn't it?

so I guess we (the Board) need to discuss bureaucracy and funding

* Generic Board responsibilities. * Ensure our protocol standardization efforts through Council and Editors * Support community efforts related to XMPP * Support SCAM

nyco, I think you're right - but I do interpret this as "the board should put emphasis on enabling these work teams to do (all of the above)."

nyco, I'd agree with that, noting that a number of things fall under the "developer/operator community" topic (e.g. enabling hackathons and other events through SCAM)

for bureaucracy, I don't clearly understand the problem, thus I am not able to propose solutions

I think we're agreeing a lot with each-other here

This is basically ensuring we have elections for members and board, council

liason with other standards bodies

and generally be organized as a corporation

for funding, here is my thought, raw once again, sharing at early stage, please comment: some software projects need money, we (Board) can help them setup Patreon pages for example and though SCAM we can promote those campaigns, still respecting our "weak neutrality" (as I call it)

anyway, we should not contemplate the problem that has been revealed we should take some action, and think outcome doing "not perfect" is acceptable

I 'm not sure we should do Patreon or similar, unless we as a foundation need something developed, like a standards compliance testing suite.

staying still is not wishable

ah good point

compliance suite could be funded by donations

that could be under the responsibility of the XSF

I was talking about software projects, which the XSF does not support directly

I don't the XSF should be involved in helping, say, Prosody acquire funds.

we can facilitate a knowledge-base that explains how, as an xmpp project, one could acquire funding.

that

what to do, what to expect

sure, that's ok

we can collect people's experience

s

If somebody wants to pick that up

well, we're drafting recommendations for the next board, right? 🙂

well, I can start seomthing, come back to the Board, we decide if stop or continue...

But if we have to chose between efforts, we probably could do some work on our own funding

choose

we would not choose, just tell them how others do

yes - I neglected following up with Peter for to long on that - apologies.

so, getting back to our own funding: what do we need money for?

I mean that we have limited time, as Board, and I think our own continued funding should have priority

There's what we use money for now, and there's what we could do with a reliable source of funds

Well, if we want to continue having things like Summits, those cost money

well, first the sponsoring, right?

we have some recurring costs, but I think having funds to spend could enable us to do more than what we currently do.

and they way we've dealt with sponsoring in the past has been less than optimal

Guus: this

a source of fund can be temporary, like a crowdfunding campaign Patreon and the likes are more split across time

more predictible and repetitive, but lower amounts

sponsoring less that optimal: why? what's the problem? I think I heard we have not been the best at following up, that's right?

Pretty much - to the point where we don't know who our current sponsors actually are

so, trying to summarize: we talked about funding but not bureaucracy in funding, we talked about sponsoring (repetitive, predictible, but need manpower) ask for more sponsoring, or better follow up? we could engage the process of developing the comp suite ?

and we have had pledges for sponsoring e.g. the Brussels dinner and not collected money from those sponsors for two years running (at least)

argh

"bureaucrazy" doesn't necessarily need a plan right now, other than maybe figuring out if we want to continue having an Executive Director, and what role they should have.

But indeed, we probably need a single person handing all things around sponsoring

that's 2. in our agenda today?

Doorbell, afk

nyco: time permitting

ok, chicken and egg what if hire someone? an admin role, not like in sysadmin/devops, but admin like legal and money that way we could collect the real money, seriously, with proper tracking this way we could pay that person logic? ;-)

But to me the biggest question on preparing for FOSDEM/Summit in 2019 is: which one person will take that on *and* follow through on all the things.

SCAM? not the Board?

nyco, I actually wouldn't be opposed to that idea

nyco, SCAM is allocated a budget and spends it - it not directly involved in the sponsorship part

yep

back

and yes, that's for SCAM. And for board to follow up on with SCAM, if they don't act appropriately

hummm, do we have an organizational chat of the XSF?

sorry, out of context

as the WT leader of SCAM, I expect to be scolded 🙂

nyco, you mean like this MUC? :)

(I'm currently moving house - planning to take up FOSDEM next week)

MattJ ;-)

I'm ok with SCAM handling that, but then I want a single person in SCAM to be appointed for it. Of course the same problem of course exists for the generic sponsoring efforts of the XSF. If we say this is the Treasurers responsibility, then we need to make sure that we clean up the site and follow up on acquiring new sponsors with him.

hiring someone could help, lot of work though crowdfunding could help as well, but what for?

Ralph, we'll pick someone from within SCAM to take point.

Guus: 💪

as for Treasurer: I'd be ok with that, providing that the Treasurer is.

it is all getting back to this: the XSF is in survival mode we (individuals) do not invest and commit enough time&work to maintain it properly

maybe plan a sit-down with Peter?

Guus: let's do that. You, Peter, and me?

ralphm: works for me, I'm open for other to attend, but maybe not swamp him?

nyco: I don't quite agree with 'survival' mode - there's more potential, but I think we're not doing _that_ bad.

nyco: I don't think I agree with that statement. I think the core of what we need to do – be a standards org – is going well.

not being updated regarding sponsoring pretty much sucks... sorry for the vocab

it may be harsh, but it is a reality

nyco, true, but still, we're processing XEPs.

I agree that we could do _more_

good, the Council does, not the Board

but we're not "almost dead"

I think we all agree our sponsoring situation is not good.

the Board is not very commited, I have to say...

the engagement is low

I'm guility of it

This is a good time for me to point out that we're out of time for this week 😃 (sorry, but I'm pressed for time)

:-D

you're right

:)

Guus: let's set this up then

thx all!

2. Date of Next

+1W

+1

3. Close

Thanks all!

merci à tous ! ;-)

I will not be here next week

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

huh... notes?

I'm selling my house at that exact time.

good luck! but... do not sell it in bitcoins

unless someone else does, I'll write the notes

nyco, that would be much appreciated, thanks!

Thank you

hey, just started that: https://app.mindmup.com/map/new/1538057154012

1. can you see/read?

2. can you edit?

I just typed something in that button-like thingy?

I did not see anything moving

oh, but I have to sign up before I can save it?

add a block, maybe?

I have not signed up

https://movim.eu:5280/upload/1ab8cd5d50a081e2fdf8ce43dca3047f8bd49889/YL2s4N2wQ2wxkGfS9md802ngaKH7fZ6bOO5Whfcm/Capture_d_e_cran_2018-09-27_a__16.09.27.png

in 2 min

oh, no, I see an empty page with just one blue block.

ok

I'll find something else ✏

thx

np

I've figured out why I missed your chats

I got my contact list filtered on 'online'

and you're going offline and online, which makes you pop up and under 🙂

wat? I'm staying online with three concurrent clients

is there flapping somewhere?

No, not now. That was earlier.

at the begin of the meeting.

:'(

you showed as 'offline' for a moment

anyway

I got to run

bye!

bye