XSF Discussion - 2018-10-05

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07:06:10 nyco Matrix is blindly attacking XMPP again https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1048103304402808832 I've answered if you wanna do so as well, I suggest with facts and politely
07:08:54 daniel 50k concurrent? That sound like they are bashing themselves 😂
07:13:22 Ge0rG My server doesn't have 50k concurrent users.
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07:17:44 Holger nyco: I think he means their server "does a lot more" per user than an XMPP server. So what he's trying to say is that not only Synapse is scaling badly but the protocol as well. I'll cite that next time someone tells me that Go will fix everything 😉
07:21:22 nyco yeah, and XMPP federation just works, and has been proven at large scale (with Google and Facebook, probably tens of millions of users, I wouldn't bet hundreds of millions)
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07:28:10 Maranda 50k with what? 2-3 TiBs of RAM? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
07:29:38 daniel It scales very well. Just add more ram. Ram is cheao
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07:30:31 Ge0rG nyco: I'm not sure Facebook ever had federation. And the Google one was quirky all the way
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07:33:28 nyco I don't wanna brag or bash... but the Matrix ecosystem has tried hard to develop a "homeserver" (the name says a lot... but it may only be related to the beginnings, the ambition having changed meanwhile) for years now: Synapse (under active development), Dendron (abandoned), Dendrite (Dendron done Right, a re-write, seems quite stalled), and the very new servers that are all in their infancy Ruma, The Construct, Plasma, jeon let them mature at their own pace
07:33:44 nyco Ge0rG oh right, I remember it was just C2S connectivity, right?
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07:35:12 Ge0rG nyco: exactly
07:35:14 Maranda Microsoft at one point too for Live Messenger
07:35:25 nyco Ge0rG thx for correcting
07:37:00 nyco Maranda ah maybe, that may come from a long forgotten memory... well, for sure, Microsoft did XMPP (and SIP) federation with OCS (Office Communications Servers) or Lync
07:37:41 Ge0rG I still wonder if I can get XMPP federation with my o365 business account.
07:38:10 nyco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_for_Business_Server#XMPP
07:39:47 nyco Ge0rG well, my bet is, now that IM has greatly evolved with Team Chat (or EIM, Enterprise Instant Messaging), having lots of mini-features, the many players are uneven in terms of how these mini-features behave so that would be a nightmare, basic features would work
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07:43:47 Ge0rG nyco: I actually tried Teams out for some days, and even its integration with Lync was horrible
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15:25:06 edhelas I have an issue regarding the changes that I'm doing to the MUC Avatar XEP (that is currently in Inbox) https://github.com/edhelas/xeps/commit/a776a6b3600305067400f52cc2f9a059f9139338#diff-5f89805e586ecd845ea99f0c89f337bcR142 (see https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-September/035361.html for more info)
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15:25:28 edhelas I'm wondering how a vcard could be published to a Pubsub node
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15:33:51 moparisthebest Ge0rG: we tried out Microsoft teams, so fancy but basic chat was so bad it was essentially unusable
15:34:36 moparisthebest Like each message can be a thread, but if you reply to an older one, it pulls it out of its former place in history
15:34:50 moparisthebest Then scrolling back and reading makes no sense
15:35:03 moparisthebest Among other things
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19:40:56 lovetox what do companys use for videochat if they dont have skype?
19:42:14 MattJ Anything from Jitsi to Zoom, WebEx... I was in a GoToMeeting today
19:42:32 MattJ and of course Google Hangouts/Meet
19:43:00 lovetox my company has probably a some 6 figures in video conferencing hardware that is based on skype
19:43:30 MattJ I'm sorry to hear that
19:45:00 lovetox dont be, i mean it works decent, i never saw something else though
19:45:19 lovetox im just wondering, if there are really hardware solutions out there that support all these messengers
19:45:36 lovetox i mean such a video conferencing system is probably 10.000 euro+
19:45:53 lovetox if i buy something like that it needs to work with most of my customers
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19:46:22 Zash Have you ever been to FOSDEM and the Cisco-hosted XMPP Summit?
19:46:36 lovetox nope
19:47:00 lovetox we have cicso systems, still running skype though
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19:49:03 lovetox also when i think about messing, you have email in the company, thats not going away, now you add something like slack because you know IM, then you still have skype thats for video chat and also has IM (bad but still), now you conversations spread over 3 systems
19:49:25 Zash Yup
19:49:37 lovetox then you have some kind of wiki, where everyone can leave comments, then you have JIRA for your workflows where everyone comments on the issues
19:49:40 Zash "Unified Messaging" was some big hyped buzzword for a while there
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19:50:00 lovetox its a fucking mess :D
19:50:17 Zash It keeps going back to a mess, yeah.
19:50:56 Zash Being good at all those different parts at the same time is much harder than building something good at only one thing.
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19:53:28 MattJ All of the tools grow until they do everything badly
19:54:07 Zash *All* the tools
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