XSF Discussion - 2018-10-14

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  114. flow dedekin, that is not (yet) a statistic evaluation, just a single shot. I'm also not sure how meaningful the numbers regarding compression are, as I wonder if compression achieves very good results in the initial connection phase as the user's XMPP domain occurs very often
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  116. jonas’ flow, does this take into account the requirement to flush the compression state on each stanza?
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  119. flow jonas’, not on each stanza but on each channel change, and the with compression above is using sync flush after each stanza
  120. flow with compression full flush and with tls recv: 9827 send: 6360 recv-aft-filter: 21594 send-bef-filter: 5677
  121. flow those are the numbers with full flush after a channel change
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  125. jonas’ sure, channel change is harder to implement, so I’d like to see the "worst case" numbers here :)
  126. jonas’ but that is still pretty good
  127. Ge0rG Those are important inputs for the deprecation discussion in Council
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  129. jonas’ flow, which server implementation is this against?
  130. flow ejabberd 17.03
  131. jonas’ aged, but neat
  132. flow jonas’, ^. But I'm curious, do you expect a behavior change depending on the server?
  133. flow zlib being zlib for ages
  134. jonas’ flow, I was just curious, because prosody e.g. does not implement per-stanza/channel flush
  135. flow jonas’, well I doubt that ejabberd does this. so the full flush is probably only performed by smack
  136. jonas’ oh
  137. jonas’ that makes the recv number entirely irrelevant
  138. jonas’ (which is what I was looking at)
  139. jonas’ and the send number isn’t that impressive anymore
  140. flow that is why I champion that we make that feature negotiable in xep138
  141. jonas’ which feature?
  142. flow full flush on stanza/channel change
  143. jonas’ I am massively against making that negotiable
  144. jonas’ it’s a requirement to implement compression securely
  145. flow well only if you use tls
  146. flow there are use case for xmpp w/o tls
  147. jonas’ are there still?
  148. flow also it will likely be negoiatable in the end anyways
  149. flow because the current "zlib" mechanism does not specify this behavior
  150. jonas’ indeed
  151. jonas’ it might be indirectly negotiable by a namespace bump
  152. flow so you either add a flag to xep138 or the specific compression mechanism xep, or register a new mech like zlib-full-flush
  153. jonas’ I think all mechanisms need that type of thing, so bumping the NS of xep138 entirely to require this seems more reasonable to me
  154. flow I wouldn't require it, just as there are use cases for xmpp w/o tls, there are use cases for compression using only sync flush
  155. Ge0rG I'm not sure there are still use cases without TLS in 2018
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  299. rainslide http://neverssl.com
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  316. pep. TIL https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/calendaring.html; Any idea what happened to it?
  317. pep. Apparently https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/council/2009-April/002540.html says: Consensus to delay until after discussion with calendaring people - Dave to instigate.
  318. Zash https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/council/2009-April/002546.html has some followup
  319. pep. It'd be great to have all this feedback somewhere easily discoverable
  320. Zash pep.: Shush, you'll wake up the people who want to switch to discourse.
  321. moparisthebest at this point, it's far too late for that, caldav won
  322. moparisthebest xmpp doesn't have to do *everything*
  323. pep. Zash, I'm not sure discourse is really better
  324. Zash moparisthebest: I think you'll find that Google Calendar won. Even I haven't ever used CalDAV.
  325. moparisthebest doesn't google calendar talk caldav?
  326. pep. I do use CalDAV fwiw
  327. Zash Not that I've been in large enough organizations to need a dedicated calendaring system on that scale
  328. moparisthebest I've used nextcloud on server and davdroid on phones since 2013 when I abandoned google
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  330. Zash pep.: Seen IETFs thing? https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=draft-ietf-kitten-pkinit-alg-agility
  331. pep. What are you trying to highlight? Is that related to Calendaring, or discourse, or?
  332. Zash pep.: Email archive/search thing
  333. pep. I see. Well it's not just about emails, we have lots of different channels
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  335. pep. email, github, XEPs, XMPP, ???
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  337. Zash github is not supposed to have discussion
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  339. pep. Maybe not discussion, but changes
  340. pep. I think ideally I'd like to have that displayed somewhere alongside the XEP on xmpp.org
  341. Zash I was more thinking of the why/why-not of the changes
  342. Zash I have a vauge memory of someone working on something like that
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  351. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0099.html anybody ever used this?
  352. pep. CRUD over Iqs
  353. pep. Or this, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0101.html, I wonder how much overlaps with 0070
  354. pep. It seems to be the other way around? Instead of having the http server ping the xmpp server (that will ping your xmpp client), you go get a token from your xmpp client, that you then give to the website?
  355. flow > Ge0rG> Those are important inputs for the deprecation discussion in Council
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  357. flow I doubt that those provide a solid foundation for such a discussion
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  396. pep. SamWhited, there are 70 occurences of "meta-data" in the whole repo, I can sed them all :-°
  397. pep. it'/its was a bit more work
  398. SamWhited pep. even better! I just noticed those two and figured we might as well keep future diffs small since you were already editing those lines anyways, but might as well grab all of them I guess :)
  399. SamWhited Good job on the its/it's
  400. pep. I haven't touched inbox/ btw, not sure how that works in there, also not sure if XEPs I would have been edited are already accepted or not
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  405. pep. err, I missed one
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  435. jonas’ muclumbus/jabber muc search now lives at https://search.jabber.network/ :-)
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  459. pep. SamWhited, that sed was a bad idea..
  460. pep. "meta-data" is used in normative parts as well :(
  461. SamWhited ah, too bad. I wouldn't worry about it then; might as well just fix the two that were in lines you were touching anyways and then if we want to dig through later and find the rest we can
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