XSF Discussion - 2018-10-18


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  361. Zash

    Would it be a good idea to include contact addresses (xep 157) in stream features?

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  366. jonas’

    I wonder if we s houldn’t just put the entire disco#info result in stream features.

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  368. Guus

    Feels like over optimization to me, adding contact addresses there.

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  370. Zash

    How would you find contact addresses without an XMPP account then?

  371. Zash

    Or in my specific case where I've blocked a bunch of servers and I don't wanna unblock them and drown in spam to see if they have contact addresses.

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  397. flow

    Zash, by sending an IQ?

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  399. Zash

    flow: Not without an XMPP account

  400. flow

    then whatever IBR does

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  403. Zash

    Custom stream element that happens to look like an IQ stanza, but really isn't?

  404. flow

    hmm, I could be wrong, but it appears to send IQs without an xmpp acount

  405. Zash

    No it's not!

  406. Zash

    That stuff just looks like IQs for historical reasons. They aren't really.

  407. flow

    care to elaborate why they aren't really?

  408. Zash

    Because nothing before a resource is bound are stanzas.

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  411. Holger

    Zash: 6120 says: > The client could exchange stanzas with the server itself or the client's account before binding a resource since the full JID is needed only for addressing outside the context of the stream negotiated between the client and the server, but this is not commonly done.

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  413. flow

    Zash, first time I've heard that

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  415. Zash

    I don't think you should be able to send stanzas before "Completion of Stream Negotiation"

  416. Zash

    Prosody treats anything before resource binding as stream elements

  417. Zash

    Ie if there isn't something explicitly handling it, you get stream:error'd and disconnected

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  419. Zash

    Holger: That's not how it works in Prosody.

  420. dwd

    Zash, Presumably anything that isn't handled after resource binding is also stream:error'd...?

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  423. Zash

    resource binding enables special handling of the "jabber:client" namespace, so, yeah.

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  425. Zash

    Along with all the various source address sanity checking that just doesn't exist before that.

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  436. nyco

    ralphm Guus MattJ meeting at :30?

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  438. Guus

    I'm here

  439. Guus

    I'm here

  440. nyco

    that's two

  441. MattJ

    Hey

  442. nyco

    three, quorum!

  443. ralphm

    I'm here

  444. ralphm bangs gavel

  445. ralphm

    0. Welcome and Agenda

  446. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  447. ralphm

    What's on for today?

  448. nyco

    executive?

  449. Guus

    lets have a look at the elections

  450. Guus

    candidacy is ... low.

  451. nyco

    oh

  452. nyco

    campaign? email lists, MUCs, Twitter...

  453. ralphm

    we're still at agenda

  454. ralphm

    what else?

  455. MattJ

    Nothing from me

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  457. Guus

    I don't have anything else either.

  458. nyco

    is there some FOSDEM to discuss?

  459. nyco

    and/or Summit?

  460. ralphm

    Added

  461. ralphm

    1. Elections

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  463. nyco

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018

  464. Guus

    Alex announced board and council elections a couple of weeks ago. So far, only one person (me) has announced candidacy. We need to spread the word and ask people to stand.

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  467. ralphm

    For Board, if any one else on Board right now wants to reapply, please add yourself to the wiki, like Guus

  468. ralphm

    If you know of someone you'd like to see on Board, please talk to them yourself.

  469. MattJ

    I probably shall, I guess... just been a bit busy the past few weeks

  470. nyco

    ralphm please apply!

  471. ralphm

    I'll also ask Council (via dwd) to consider if its current members want to run again.

  472. ralphm

    nyco: I'll reapply.

  473. dwd

    That came up last meeting.

  474. dwd

    (Raised by Ge0rG)

  475. dwd

    It might be worth raising this on members@, and also I'd encourage people to "tap" those they think would be good to encourage them to stand.

  476. Guus

    Shall we raise awareness via twitter too

  477. Guus

    ?

  478. Guus

    Alex did raise this in members@, btw

  479. ralphm

    Well, if we want to attract people from outside the Membership, I'm not opposed, but I'd rather contact people ourselves than an open invitation.

  480. nyco

    members are on the ML and the MUCs, not sure we'll get candidates on Twitter, but we'll surely be transparent here, and talk about XMPP, which is good (not bad)

  481. MattJ

    I don't personally have anyone in mind who isn't already a member

  482. ralphm

    nyco: there is a difference between transparency ("We are having elections") and an open invitation ("We are having elections, and please sign up to be on Board"), IMO.

  483. nyco

    right

  484. ralphm

    That was my only point, really.

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  487. ralphm

    I'll write another e-mail to Members

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  489. Seve

    Thinking on adding the "We are having elections" to our newsletter, would it be interesting?

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  491. Guus

    I don't think it'd hurt, Seve.

  492. ralphm

    Indeed.

  493. Guus

    Go for it. Thanks for thinking of it.

  494. nyco

    I'm adding that right away

  495. ralphm

    Anything else on this?

  496. Guus

    not from me

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  498. ralphm

    2. FOSDEM

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  500. ralphm

    Devroom prep is ongoing. The RfP is coming soon.

  501. ralphm

    I'll put in the request for the Lounge, too.

  502. Guus

    I am planning (SCAM-hat on) to work on this (incl. summit, dinner) next week.

  503. ralphm

    And propose we reserve the Thursday/Friday for the Summit, in whichever form SCAM comes up with.

  504. Guus

    Also, while you're here Seve, I'd love for you to get involved with some on the ideas you offered last year.

  505. Guus

    </SCAM-hat>

  506. Guus

    ralphm: I assumed that was a given.

  507. Guus

    (the dates)

  508. ralphm

    Just making sure

  509. Guus

    kk

  510. ralphm

    3. OAB?

  511. nyco

    not for me

  512. Guus

    We need to sit with Peter

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  514. Guus

    Ralph & me

  515. Guus

    other than that, no

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  518. MattJ

    None here

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  520. Guus

    oh, when does DST changes kick in?

  521. Guus

    it's the same for everyone in this board, I think?

  522. Guus

    In which case it doesn't matter much...

  523. ralphm

    Guus: ack

  524. Guus

    I'm assuming we'll keep doing meetings at the same local time, not UTC.

  525. ralphm

    DST in the EU ends on 28

  526. ralphm

    Guus: yes

  527. ralphm

    US has already switched

  528. Guus

    good for me to think of it _beforehand_ for once 🙂

  529. MattJ

    :)

  530. Guus

    ah, so I _was_ late anyways 😃

  531. ralphm

    yeah

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  534. Guus

    k, that's it for me.

  535. ralphm

    4. Date of Next

  536. ralphm

    +1W (exactly)

  537. Guus

    works for me

  538. ralphm

    5. Close

  539. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  540. Guus

    Thank you

  541. ralphm bangs gavel

  542. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  543. MattJ

    Thanks

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  546. Link Mauve

    “20:20:09 SamWhited> Back to the wiki: is OX XEP-0374? It doesn't appear to have been worked on in a while, is it worth including? Are there many implementations?”, Gajim at least.

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  548. Link Mauve

    “21:56:11 Zash> I fear this confusion will eventually lead someone to use a generic markdown library (with html passthrough enabled by default) and then the sky falls.”, someone just did for Converse, fyi.

  549. Zash

    Link Mauve: Which was why I wrote that

  550. Zash

    Tho I wasn't fully aware that they actually had used one by that time

  551. Zash

    Just that they were calling it markdown

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  554. Link Mauve

    They used a full-blown Markdown-including-HTML library there.

  555. Link Mauve

    So to get back to the XHTML-IM discussions, you can’t win against stupid.

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  564. Yagiza

    Link Mauve, someone said XHTML-IM?

  565. SamWhited

    So they were trying to implement 0393, or they were doing their own markdown thing?

  566. Link Mauve

    SamWhited, they thought that implementing Markdown would give them 0393.

  567. SamWhited

    *facepalm* okay, fair enough, maybe my assumption that anyone would notice that it didn't actually work was naive.

  568. SamWhited

    But I guess no one actually reads the spec *or* looks at examples.

  569. moparisthebest

    you know JS devs, never write 3 lines of code if you can import 43 npm packages to do it for you instead

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  571. Zash

    SamWhited: They strongly insinted that it was in fact another flavor like Github Flavored Markdown

  572. jonas’

    I can’t say I’m surprised.

  573. SamWhited

    WhatsApp flavored Markdown!

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  575. SamWhited

    HTML is W3C flavored markdown!

  576. Zash

    True fact

  577. SamWhited

    Or WHATWG flavored markdown, I guess

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  579. Kev

    Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.

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  581. Zash

    > If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine -- XHTML-IM probably

  582. Link Mauve

    Kev, same. :(

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  698. jonas’

    a good reason for '157 in stream features is that you have a way to contact an operator you cannot reach otherwise due to s2s issues.

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  701. jonas’

    ah no

  702. jonas’

    or maybe

  703. Zash

    I was thinking account registration problems and such

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  706. jonas’

    that, too

  707. Zash

    Tho in the end there's the xmpp mailbox ( https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#contact ) one can try, or one of {post,host,foo}master

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  709. jonas’

    hm, indeed

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  717. Link Mauve

    Zash, the vast majority of the operators I’ve encountered don’t have this mailbox.

  718. Link Mauve

    Operators generally don’t do what their server doesn’t require them to do.

  719. Zash

    make more noise about it

  720. Link Mauve

    Where?

  721. Zash

    Somewhere

  722. Link Mauve

    There is no way to automatedly check for that even, so no green checkmark race. :(

  723. Zash

    We've got this at least https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers#contact

  724. Zash

    Link Mauve: Email a thing and see if it gets delivered

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  726. Link Mauve

    Zash, sorry, I won’t spam every single XMPP operator there is.

  727. jonas’

    and ironically, you’re only spamming those who’re doing it right :(

  728. Link Mauve

    Yup.

  729. Zash

    If they're unreachable, get them blacklisted somewhere

  730. Zash

    Public shaming!

  731. Link Mauve

    I’d expect that to cover 95+% (and I’m generous) of the XMPP services.

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  747. vanitasvitae

    Will there be a summit again in february?

  748. Zash

    yes

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