XSF Discussion - 2018-10-18

Would it be a good idea to include contact addresses (xep 157) in stream features?

I wonder if we s houldn’t just put the entire disco#info result in stream features.

How would you find contact addresses without an XMPP account then?

Or in my specific case where I've blocked a bunch of servers and I don't wanna unblock them and drown in spam to see if they have contact addresses.

Zash, by sending an IQ?

flow: Not without an XMPP account

then whatever IBR does

Custom stream element that happens to look like an IQ stanza, but really isn't?

hmm, I could be wrong, but it appears to send IQs without an xmpp acount

No it's not!

That stuff just looks like IQs for historical reasons. They aren't really.

care to elaborate why they aren't really?

Because nothing before a resource is bound are stanzas.

Zash: 6120 says: > The client could exchange stanzas with the server itself or the client's account before binding a resource since the full JID is needed only for addressing outside the context of the stream negotiated between the client and the server, but this is not commonly done.

Zash, first time I've heard that

I don't think you should be able to send stanzas before "Completion of Stream Negotiation"

Prosody treats anything before resource binding as stream elements

Ie if there isn't something explicitly handling it, you get stream:error'd and disconnected

Holger: That's not how it works in Prosody.

Zash, Presumably anything that isn't handled after resource binding is also stream:error'd...?

resource binding enables special handling of the "jabber:client" namespace, so, yeah.

Along with all the various source address sanity checking that just doesn't exist before that.

ralphm Guus MattJ meeting at :30?

I'm here ✏

I'm here

that's two

Hey

three, quorum!

I'm here

0. Welcome and Agenda

XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

What's on for today?

executive?

lets have a look at the elections

candidacy is ... low.

oh

campaign? email lists, MUCs, Twitter...

we're still at agenda

what else?

Nothing from me

I don't have anything else either.

is there some FOSDEM to discuss?

and/or Summit?

Added

1. Elections

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018

Alex announced board and council elections a couple of weeks ago. So far, only one person (me) has announced candidacy. We need to spread the word and ask people to stand.

For Board, if any one else on Board right now wants to reapply, please add yourself to the wiki, like Guus

If you know of someone you'd like to see on Board, please talk to them yourself.

I probably shall, I guess... just been a bit busy the past few weeks

ralphm please apply!

I'll also ask Council (via dwd) to consider if its current members want to run again.

nyco: I'll reapply.

That came up last meeting.

(Raised by Ge0rG)

It might be worth raising this on members@, and also I'd encourage people to "tap" those they think would be good to encourage them to stand.

Shall we raise awareness via twitter too

?

Alex did raise this in members@, btw

Well, if we want to attract people from outside the Membership, I'm not opposed, but I'd rather contact people ourselves than an open invitation.

members are on the ML and the MUCs, not sure we'll get candidates on Twitter, but we'll surely be transparent here, and talk about XMPP, which is good (not bad)

I don't personally have anyone in mind who isn't already a member

nyco: there is a difference between transparency ("We are having elections") and an open invitation ("We are having elections, and please sign up to be on Board"), IMO.

right

That was my only point, really.

I'll write another e-mail to Members

Thinking on adding the "We are having elections" to our newsletter, would it be interesting?

I don't think it'd hurt, Seve.

Indeed.

Go for it. Thanks for thinking of it.

I'm adding that right away

Anything else on this?

not from me

2. FOSDEM

Devroom prep is ongoing. The RfP is coming soon.

I'll put in the request for the Lounge, too.

I am planning (SCAM-hat on) to work on this (incl. summit, dinner) next week.

And propose we reserve the Thursday/Friday for the Summit, in whichever form SCAM comes up with.

Also, while you're here Seve, I'd love for you to get involved with some on the ideas you offered last year.

</SCAM-hat>

ralphm: I assumed that was a given.

(the dates)

Just making sure

kk

3. OAB?

not for me

We need to sit with Peter

Ralph & me

other than that, no

None here

oh, when does DST changes kick in?

it's the same for everyone in this board, I think?

In which case it doesn't matter much...

Guus: ack

I'm assuming we'll keep doing meetings at the same local time, not UTC.

DST in the EU ends on 28

Guus: yes

US has already switched

good for me to think of it _beforehand_ for once 🙂

:)

ah, so I _was_ late anyways 😃

yeah

k, that's it for me.

4. Date of Next

+1W (exactly)

works for me

5. Close

Thanks all!

Thank you

XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Thanks

“20:20:09 SamWhited> Back to the wiki: is OX XEP-0374? It doesn't appear to have been worked on in a while, is it worth including? Are there many implementations?”, Gajim at least.

“21:56:11 Zash> I fear this confusion will eventually lead someone to use a generic markdown library (with html passthrough enabled by default) and then the sky falls.”, someone just did for Converse, fyi.

Link Mauve: Which was why I wrote that

Tho I wasn't fully aware that they actually had used one by that time

Just that they were calling it markdown

They used a full-blown Markdown-including-HTML library there.

So to get back to the XHTML-IM discussions, you can’t win against stupid.

Link Mauve, someone said XHTML-IM?

So they were trying to implement 0393, or they were doing their own markdown thing?

SamWhited, they thought that implementing Markdown would give them 0393.

*facepalm* okay, fair enough, maybe my assumption that anyone would notice that it didn't actually work was naive.

But I guess no one actually reads the spec *or* looks at examples.

you know JS devs, never write 3 lines of code if you can import 43 npm packages to do it for you instead

SamWhited: They strongly insinted that it was in fact another flavor like Github Flavored Markdown

I can’t say I’m surprised.

WhatsApp flavored Markdown!

HTML is W3C flavored markdown!

True fact

Or WHATWG flavored markdown, I guess

Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.

> If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine -- XHTML-IM probably

Kev, same. :(

a good reason for '157 in stream features is that you have a way to contact an operator you cannot reach otherwise due to s2s issues.

ah no

or maybe

I was thinking account registration problems and such

that, too

Tho in the end there's the xmpp mailbox ( https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#contact ) one can try, or one of {post,host,foo}master

hm, indeed

Zash, the vast majority of the operators I’ve encountered don’t have this mailbox.

Operators generally don’t do what their server doesn’t require them to do.

make more noise about it

Where?

Somewhere

There is no way to automatedly check for that even, so no green checkmark race. :(

We've got this at least https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers#contact

Link Mauve: Email a thing and see if it gets delivered

Zash, sorry, I won’t spam every single XMPP operator there is.

and ironically, you’re only spamming those who’re doing it right :(

Yup.

If they're unreachable, get them blacklisted somewhere

Public shaming!

I’d expect that to cover 95+% (and I’m generous) of the XMPP services.

Will there be a summit again in february?

yes