XSF Discussion - 2018-10-18


  1. Zash

    Would it be a good idea to include contact addresses (xep 157) in stream features?

  2. jonas’

    I wonder if we s houldn’t just put the entire disco#info result in stream features.

  3. Guus

    Feels like over optimization to me, adding contact addresses there.

  4. Zash

    How would you find contact addresses without an XMPP account then?

  5. Zash

    Or in my specific case where I've blocked a bunch of servers and I don't wanna unblock them and drown in spam to see if they have contact addresses.

  6. flow

    Zash, by sending an IQ?

  7. Zash

    flow: Not without an XMPP account

  8. flow

    then whatever IBR does

  9. Zash

    Custom stream element that happens to look like an IQ stanza, but really isn't?

  10. flow

    hmm, I could be wrong, but it appears to send IQs without an xmpp acount

  11. Zash

    No it's not!

  12. Zash

    That stuff just looks like IQs for historical reasons. They aren't really.

  13. flow

    care to elaborate why they aren't really?

  14. Zash

    Because nothing before a resource is bound are stanzas.

  15. Holger

    Zash: 6120 says: > The client could exchange stanzas with the server itself or the client's account before binding a resource since the full JID is needed only for addressing outside the context of the stream negotiated between the client and the server, but this is not commonly done.

  16. flow

    Zash, first time I've heard that

  17. Zash

    I don't think you should be able to send stanzas before "Completion of Stream Negotiation"

  18. Zash

    Prosody treats anything before resource binding as stream elements

  19. Zash

    Ie if there isn't something explicitly handling it, you get stream:error'd and disconnected

  20. Zash

    Holger: That's not how it works in Prosody.

  21. dwd

    Zash, Presumably anything that isn't handled after resource binding is also stream:error'd...?

  22. Zash

    resource binding enables special handling of the "jabber:client" namespace, so, yeah.

  23. Zash

    Along with all the various source address sanity checking that just doesn't exist before that.

  24. nyco

    ralphm Guus MattJ meeting at :30?

  25. Guus

    I'm here

  26. Guus

    I'm here

  27. nyco

    that's two

  28. MattJ

    Hey

  29. nyco

    three, quorum!

  30. ralphm

    I'm here

  31. ralphm bangs gavel

  32. ralphm

    0. Welcome and Agenda

  33. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  34. ralphm

    What's on for today?

  35. nyco

    executive?

  36. Guus

    lets have a look at the elections

  37. Guus

    candidacy is ... low.

  38. nyco

    oh

  39. nyco

    campaign? email lists, MUCs, Twitter...

  40. ralphm

    we're still at agenda

  41. ralphm

    what else?

  42. MattJ

    Nothing from me

  43. Guus

    I don't have anything else either.

  44. nyco

    is there some FOSDEM to discuss?

  45. nyco

    and/or Summit?

  46. ralphm

    Added

  47. ralphm

    1. Elections

  48. nyco

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2018

  49. Guus

    Alex announced board and council elections a couple of weeks ago. So far, only one person (me) has announced candidacy. We need to spread the word and ask people to stand.

  50. ralphm

    For Board, if any one else on Board right now wants to reapply, please add yourself to the wiki, like Guus

  51. ralphm

    If you know of someone you'd like to see on Board, please talk to them yourself.

  52. MattJ

    I probably shall, I guess... just been a bit busy the past few weeks

  53. nyco

    ralphm please apply!

  54. ralphm

    I'll also ask Council (via dwd) to consider if its current members want to run again.

  55. ralphm

    nyco: I'll reapply.

  56. dwd

    That came up last meeting.

  57. dwd

    (Raised by Ge0rG)

  58. dwd

    It might be worth raising this on members@, and also I'd encourage people to "tap" those they think would be good to encourage them to stand.

  59. Guus

    Shall we raise awareness via twitter too

  60. Guus

    ?

  61. Guus

    Alex did raise this in members@, btw

  62. ralphm

    Well, if we want to attract people from outside the Membership, I'm not opposed, but I'd rather contact people ourselves than an open invitation.

  63. nyco

    members are on the ML and the MUCs, not sure we'll get candidates on Twitter, but we'll surely be transparent here, and talk about XMPP, which is good (not bad)

  64. MattJ

    I don't personally have anyone in mind who isn't already a member

  65. ralphm

    nyco: there is a difference between transparency ("We are having elections") and an open invitation ("We are having elections, and please sign up to be on Board"), IMO.

  66. nyco

    right

  67. ralphm

    That was my only point, really.

  68. ralphm

    I'll write another e-mail to Members

  69. Seve

    Thinking on adding the "We are having elections" to our newsletter, would it be interesting?

  70. Guus

    I don't think it'd hurt, Seve.

  71. ralphm

    Indeed.

  72. Guus

    Go for it. Thanks for thinking of it.

  73. nyco

    I'm adding that right away

  74. ralphm

    Anything else on this?

  75. Guus

    not from me

  76. ralphm

    2. FOSDEM

  77. ralphm

    Devroom prep is ongoing. The RfP is coming soon.

  78. ralphm

    I'll put in the request for the Lounge, too.

  79. Guus

    I am planning (SCAM-hat on) to work on this (incl. summit, dinner) next week.

  80. ralphm

    And propose we reserve the Thursday/Friday for the Summit, in whichever form SCAM comes up with.

  81. Guus

    Also, while you're here Seve, I'd love for you to get involved with some on the ideas you offered last year.

  82. Guus

    </SCAM-hat>

  83. Guus

    ralphm: I assumed that was a given.

  84. Guus

    (the dates)

  85. ralphm

    Just making sure

  86. Guus

    kk

  87. ralphm

    3. OAB?

  88. nyco

    not for me

  89. Guus

    We need to sit with Peter

  90. Guus

    Ralph & me

  91. Guus

    other than that, no

  92. MattJ

    None here

  93. Guus

    oh, when does DST changes kick in?

  94. Guus

    it's the same for everyone in this board, I think?

  95. Guus

    In which case it doesn't matter much...

  96. ralphm

    Guus: ack

  97. Guus

    I'm assuming we'll keep doing meetings at the same local time, not UTC.

  98. ralphm

    DST in the EU ends on 28

  99. ralphm

    Guus: yes

  100. ralphm

    US has already switched

  101. Guus

    good for me to think of it _beforehand_ for once 🙂

  102. MattJ

    :)

  103. Guus

    ah, so I _was_ late anyways 😃

  104. ralphm

    yeah

  105. Guus

    k, that's it for me.

  106. ralphm

    4. Date of Next

  107. ralphm

    +1W (exactly)

  108. Guus

    works for me

  109. ralphm

    5. Close

  110. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  111. Guus

    Thank you

  112. ralphm bangs gavel

  113. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  114. MattJ

    Thanks

  115. Link Mauve

    “20:20:09 SamWhited> Back to the wiki: is OX XEP-0374? It doesn't appear to have been worked on in a while, is it worth including? Are there many implementations?”, Gajim at least.

  116. Link Mauve

    “21:56:11 Zash> I fear this confusion will eventually lead someone to use a generic markdown library (with html passthrough enabled by default) and then the sky falls.”, someone just did for Converse, fyi.

  117. Zash

    Link Mauve: Which was why I wrote that

  118. Zash

    Tho I wasn't fully aware that they actually had used one by that time

  119. Zash

    Just that they were calling it markdown

  120. Link Mauve

    They used a full-blown Markdown-including-HTML library there.

  121. Link Mauve

    So to get back to the XHTML-IM discussions, you can’t win against stupid.

  122. Yagiza

    Link Mauve, someone said XHTML-IM?

  123. SamWhited

    So they were trying to implement 0393, or they were doing their own markdown thing?

  124. Link Mauve

    SamWhited, they thought that implementing Markdown would give them 0393.

  125. SamWhited

    *facepalm* okay, fair enough, maybe my assumption that anyone would notice that it didn't actually work was naive.

  126. SamWhited

    But I guess no one actually reads the spec *or* looks at examples.

  127. moparisthebest

    you know JS devs, never write 3 lines of code if you can import 43 npm packages to do it for you instead

  128. Zash

    SamWhited: They strongly insinted that it was in fact another flavor like Github Flavored Markdown

  129. jonas’

    I can’t say I’m surprised.

  130. SamWhited

    WhatsApp flavored Markdown!

  131. SamWhited

    HTML is W3C flavored markdown!

  132. Zash

    True fact

  133. SamWhited

    Or WHATWG flavored markdown, I guess

  134. Kev

    Everything is proceeding as I have forseen.

  135. Zash

    > If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine -- XHTML-IM probably

  136. Link Mauve

    Kev, same. :(

  137. jonas’

    a good reason for '157 in stream features is that you have a way to contact an operator you cannot reach otherwise due to s2s issues.

  138. jonas’

    ah no

  139. jonas’

    or maybe

  140. Zash

    I was thinking account registration problems and such

  141. jonas’

    that, too

  142. Zash

    Tho in the end there's the xmpp mailbox ( https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#contact ) one can try, or one of {post,host,foo}master

  143. jonas’

    hm, indeed

  144. Link Mauve

    Zash, the vast majority of the operators I’ve encountered don’t have this mailbox.

  145. Link Mauve

    Operators generally don’t do what their server doesn’t require them to do.

  146. Zash

    make more noise about it

  147. Link Mauve

    Where?

  148. Zash

    Somewhere

  149. Link Mauve

    There is no way to automatedly check for that even, so no green checkmark race. :(

  150. Zash

    We've got this at least https://prosody.im/doc/public_servers#contact

  151. Zash

    Link Mauve: Email a thing and see if it gets delivered

  152. Link Mauve

    Zash, sorry, I won’t spam every single XMPP operator there is.

  153. jonas’

    and ironically, you’re only spamming those who’re doing it right :(

  154. Link Mauve

    Yup.

  155. Zash

    If they're unreachable, get them blacklisted somewhere

  156. Zash

    Public shaming!

  157. Link Mauve

    I’d expect that to cover 95+% (and I’m generous) of the XMPP services.

  158. vanitasvitae

    Will there be a summit again in february?

  159. Zash

    yes