XSF Discussion - 2018-10-19

  1. tux has left
  2. tux has joined
  3. alexis has joined
  4. Maranda has left
  5. intosi has joined
  6. intosi has joined
  7. intosi has left
  8. intosi has joined
  9. UsL has joined
  10. dwd has left
  11. SamWhited has left
  12. alexis has left
  13. efrit has left
  14. j.r has joined
  15. j.r has joined
  16. Maranda has joined
  17. SamWhited has joined
  18. intosi has left
  19. intosi has joined
  20. waqas has joined
  21. j.r has left
  22. lskdjf has left
  23. j.r has joined
  24. intosi has left
  25. intosi has joined
  26. lskdjf has joined
  27. intosi has left
  28. intosi has joined
  29. daniel has left
  30. l has joined
  31. j.r has joined
  32. j.r has joined
  33. thorsten has left
  34. thorsten has joined
  35. j.r has joined
  36. j.r has joined
  37. waqas has left
  38. waqas has joined
  39. waqas has left
  40. waqas has joined
  41. waqas has left
  42. waqas has joined
  43. waqas has left
  44. waqas has joined
  45. l has joined
  46. matlag has left
  47. daniel has left
  48. daniel has joined
  49. dwd has left
  50. dwd has joined
  51. waqas has left
  52. waqas has joined
  53. dwd has left
  54. j.r has joined
  55. j.r has joined
  56. mightyBroccoli has left
  57. mightyBroccoli has joined
  58. j.r has joined
  59. j.r has joined
  60. alexis has joined
  61. alexis has left
  62. alexis has joined
  63. daniel has left
  64. daniel has joined
  65. lorddavidiii has joined
  66. Nekit has joined
  67. j.r has joined
  68. Ge0rG has left
  69. j.r has joined
  70. daniel has left
  71. daniel has joined
  72. UsL has left
  73. j.r has joined
  74. UsL has joined
  75. UsL has left
  76. UsL has joined
  77. j.r has joined
  78. dwd has joined
  79. Yagiza has joined
  80. dwd has left
  81. lnj has joined
  82. ji-ef has joined
  83. UsL has left
  84. UsL has joined
  85. Nekit has left
  86. Nekit has joined
  87. blabla has joined
  88. lnj has left
  89. lnj has joined
  90. mightyBroccoli has left
  91. mightyBroccoli has joined
  92. guusdk has left
  93. Guus has left
  94. mimi89999 has left
  95. guusdk has joined
  96. daniel has left
  97. daniel has joined
  98. guusdk has left
  99. guusdk has joined
  100. Guus has left
  101. daniel has left
  102. SamWhited has left
  103. Tobias has joined
  104. dwd has joined
  105. Guus has left
  106. daniel has joined
  107. dwd has left
  108. daniel has left
  109. daniel has joined
  110. j.r has left
  111. j.r has joined
  112. lnj has left
  113. Str4tocaster has joined
  114. ji-ef has left
  115. ji-ef has joined
  116. alexis has joined
  117. Str4tocaster has left
  118. Valerian has joined
  119. alexis has left
  120. krauq has left
  121. krauq has joined
  122. Maranda has left
  123. alexis has joined
  124. andy has joined
  125. andy has left
  126. andy has joined
  127. ralphm has left
  128. Seve/SouL has left
  129. intosi has left
  130. intosi has joined
  131. alexis has left
  132. j.r has joined
  133. alexis has joined
  134. alexis has left
  135. alexis has joined
  136. Guus has left
  137. Valerian has left
  138. Guus has left
  139. daniel has left
  140. daniel has joined
  141. daniel has left
  142. blabla has joined
  143. j.r has joined
  144. lorddavidiii has left
  145. alexis has left
  146. alexis has joined
  147. daniel has joined
  148. Maranda has left
  149. guusdk has left
  150. alexis has left
  151. Valerian has joined
  152. mimi89999 has joined
  153. waqas has left
  154. labdsf has left
  155. Zash has left
  156. Nekit has left
  157. Nekit has joined
  158. Seve/SouL has joined
  159. Zash has joined
  160. dwd has joined
  161. Guus has left
  162. guusdk has left
  163. guusdk has joined
  164. Guus has left
  165. Maranda has joined
  166. moparisthebest has left
  167. ralphm has joined
  168. Ge0rG has joined
  169. dwd has left
  170. dwd has joined
  171. marc has joined
  172. dwd has left
  173. Steve Kille has left
  174. !xsf_martin has joined
  175. Steve Kille has joined
  176. marc has left
  177. alexis has joined
  178. marc has joined
  179. alexis has left
  180. alexis has joined
  181. alexis has left
  182. alexis has joined
  183. dwd has joined
  184. rion has left
  185. alexis has joined
  186. alexis has left
  187. Nekit has left
  188. alexis has joined
  189. Steve Kille has left
  190. intosi has joined
  191. intosi has joined
  192. dwd has left
  193. dwd has joined
  194. dwd has left
  195. alexis has left
  196. pep. > -- XHTML-IM probably I laughed
  197. pep. Come on conversations, let me copy the whole message
  198. muppeth has left
  199. Maranda pats pep. consolingly.
  200. muppeth has joined
  201. intosi has left
  202. intosi has joined
  203. alexis has joined
  204. marc has left
  205. alexis has left
  206. ThibG has joined
  207. ThibG has joined
  208. Nekit has joined
  209. dwd has joined
  210. alexis has joined
  211. ThibG has left
  212. ThibG has joined
  213. alexis has left
  214. blabla has joined
  215. mimi89999 has joined
  216. efrit has joined
  217. Yagiza has left
  218. efrit has left
  219. efrit has joined
  220. labdsf has joined
  221. Guus has left
  222. ralphm has left
  223. vinx55 has joined
  224. Valerian has left
  225. Valerian has joined
  226. Valerian has left
  227. Valerian has joined
  228. Valerian has left
  229. rion has left
  230. ralphm has joined
  231. lumi has joined
  232. Valerian has joined
  233. intosi has joined
  234. intosi has joined
  235. alacer has joined
  236. alacer has left
  237. alexis has joined
  238. vinx55 has left
  239. alacer has joined
  240. vinx55 has joined
  241. alexis has left
  242. alacer has left
  243. blabla has joined
  244. tux has joined
  245. dwd has left
  246. rion has left
  247. dwd has left
  248. vinx55 has left
  249. mrdoctorwho has left
  250. mrdoctorwho has joined
  251. dwd has left
  252. alexis has joined
  253. rion has left
  254. blabla has joined
  255. alexis has left
  256. rion has left
  257. alexis has joined
  258. Guus has left
  259. dwd has joined
  260. alexis has left
  261. Str4tocaster has joined
  262. Str4tocaster has left
  263. dwd has left
  264. dwd has joined
  265. dwd has left
  266. dwd has joined
  267. Guus has left
  268. Guus has left
  269. Kev has left
  270. Kev has left
  271. alexis has joined
  272. guusdk has left
  273. guusdk has joined
  274. Guus has left
  275. !xsf_martin has left
  276. !xsf_martin has joined
  277. tux has left
  278. rion has left
  279. Yagiza has joined
  280. Guus has left
  281. !xsf_martin has joined
  282. Str4tocaster has joined
  283. dwd has left
  284. dwd has joined
  285. Str4tocaster has left
  286. dwd has left
  287. Valerian has left
  288. Str4tocaster has left
  289. Str4tocaster has left
  290. alexis has left
  291. l has joined
  292. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  293. Zash has left
  294. Valerian has joined
  295. daniel has left
  296. daniel has joined
  297. Str4tocaster has joined
  298. Str4tocaster has left
  299. Valerian has left
  300. dwd has joined
  301. dedekin has joined
  302. Valerian has joined
  303. Zash has left
  304. alacer has joined
  305. j.r has left
  306. krauq has left
  307. krauq has joined
  308. j.r has joined
  309. ta has joined
  310. alexis has joined
  311. intosi has left
  312. intosi has joined
  313. matlag has left
  314. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  315. Syndace has joined
  316. Syndace has joined
  317. alexis has left
  318. dwd has left
  319. dwd has joined
  320. dwd has left
  321. intosi has left
  322. intosi has joined
  323. blabla has left
  324. blabla has joined
  325. Zash has left
  326. intosi has joined
  327. intosi has joined
  328. ThibG has left
  329. ThibG has joined
  330. Valerian has left
  331. Valerian has joined
  332. Valerian has left
  333. Valerian has joined
  334. lorddavidiii has joined
  335. Valerian has left
  336. thorsten has joined
  337. alacer has left
  338. thorsten has joined
  339. Syndace has joined
  340. Syndace has joined
  341. alacer has joined
  342. Valerian has joined
  343. Zash has left
  344. lskdjf has joined
  345. lskdjf has joined
  346. efrit has left
  347. Steve Kille has left
  348. Steve Kille has left
  349. daniel has left
  350. daniel has joined
  351. Guus has left
  352. alacer has left
  353. alacer has joined
  354. Guus has left
  355. intosi has joined
  356. intosi has joined
  357. Zash has left
  358. lskdjf has left
  359. intosi has left
  360. intosi has joined
  361. matlag has left
  362. alacer has left
  363. l has left
  364. Yagiza has left
  365. dwd has joined
  366. Yagiza has joined
  367. lskdjf has joined
  368. Yagiza has left
  369. thorsten has joined
  370. intosi has joined
  371. intosi has joined
  372. lorddavidiii has left
  373. blabla has joined
  374. l has joined
  375. l has joined
  376. blabla has joined
  377. krauq has left
  378. krauq has joined
  379. daniel has left
  380. matlag has left
  381. daniel has left
  382. l has left
  383. l has joined
  384. dedekin has left
  385. intosi has left
  386. intosi has joined
  387. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  388. Holger has left
  389. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  390. lovetox has joined
  391. intosi has joined
  392. intosi has joined
  393. mightyBroccoli has left
  394. mightyBroccoli has joined
  395. moparisthebest has joined
  396. dwd has left
  397. dwd has left
  398. dwd has joined
  399. matlag has left
  400. dwd has left
  401. SamWhited has left
  402. SamWhited has joined
  403. lovetox has left
  404. lovetox has joined
  405. andy has left
  406. genofire has left
  407. dedekin has joined
  408. daniel has left
  409. lskdjf has joined
  410. Valerian has left
  411. rion has left
  412. intosi has joined
  413. intosi has joined
  414. Valerian has joined
  415. dwd has joined
  416. rion has left
  417. dwd has left
  418. matlag has left
  419. jonas’ has joined
  420. Guus has left
  421. Guus has left
  422. moparisthebest has left
  423. moparisthebest has joined
  424. daniel has left
  425. intosi has left
  426. intosi has joined
  427. rion has left
  428. labdsf has left
  429. labdsf has joined
  430. intosi has joined
  431. intosi has joined
  432. Yagiza has joined
  433. Yagiza has left
  434. Guus has left
  435. Guus has left
  436. Yagiza has joined
  437. SamWhited has left
  438. intosi has left
  439. intosi has joined
  440. Yagiza has left
  441. Yagiza has left
  442. Valerian has left
  443. Maranda has left
  444. SamWhited has left
  445. valo has joined
  446. alacer has joined
  447. intosi has joined
  448. vanitasvitae has left
  449. Guus has left
  450. Guus has left
  451. valo has joined
  452. intosi has joined
  453. mimi89999 has left
  454. guusdk has left
  455. intosi has joined
  456. thorsten has joined
  457. jonas’ has left
  458. Yagiza has joined
  459. Yagiza has left
  460. intosi has joined
  461. lnj has joined
  462. lorddavidiii has joined
  463. intosi has left
  464. intosi has joined
  465. mightyBroccoli has left
  466. mightyBroccoli has joined
  467. Guus has left
  468. guusdk has left
  469. efrit has joined
  470. krauq has left
  471. krauq has joined
  472. Guus has left
  473. nyco has left
  474. mimi89999 has joined
  475. Ge0rG has left
  476. Maranda has joined
  477. lumi has left
  478. mimi89999 has left
  479. winfried has joined
  480. winfried has joined
  481. Yagiza has joined
  482. Yagiza has left
  483. Yagiza has joined
  484. Maranda has left
  485. ThibG has left
  486. ThibG has joined
  487. mimi89999 has joined
  488. mimi89999 has joined
  489. mimi89999 has joined
  490. Yagiza has left
  491. Yagiza has joined
  492. Yagiza has left
  493. mightyBroccoli has left
  494. mightyBroccoli has joined
  495. blabla has joined
  496. mimi89999 has left
  497. daniel has left
  498. marc has joined
  499. Zash has left
  500. intosi has joined
  501. blabla has joined
  502. waqas has joined
  503. lorddavidiii has left
  504. lorddavidiii has joined
  505. vanitasvitae has left
  506. efrit has left
  507. Ge0rG has left
  508. matlag has left
  509. bear has left
  510. guusdk has left
  511. intosi has joined
  512. intosi has joined
  513. Ge0rG has left
  514. Yagiza has joined
  515. mightyBroccoli has left
  516. mightyBroccoli has joined
  517. dedekin has left
  518. marc has left
  519. intosi has joined
  520. intosi has joined
  521. mimi89999 has left
  522. ji-ef has joined
  523. ji-ef has joined
  524. intosi has left
  525. intosi has joined
  526. Steve Kille has joined
  527. mightyBroccoli has left
  528. mightyBroccoli has joined
  529. dedekin has joined
  530. Valerian has joined
  531. ralphm has joined
  532. marc has joined
  533. ralphm has joined
  534. intosi has joined
  535. intosi has joined
  536. Holger has left
  537. labdsf has left
  538. moparisthebest has joined
  539. Steve Kille has left
  540. Syndace has left
  541. Guus has left
  542. guusdk has left
  543. Yagiza has left
  544. matlag has left
  545. Guus has left
  546. Syndace has joined
  547. intosi has joined
  548. genofire has left
  549. intosi has joined
  550. intosi has joined
  551. matlag has left
  552. l has joined
  553. ThibG has left
  554. genofire has left
  555. genofire has joined
  556. Tobias has left
  557. Tobias has joined
  558. ThibG has joined
  559. SamWhited has left
  560. intosi has joined
  561. ralphm has left
  562. ThibG has left
  563. intosi has joined
  564. intosi has joined
  565. Yagiza has joined
  566. matlag has left
  567. ThibG has joined
  568. genofire has left
  569. genofire has joined
  570. intosi has joined
  571. intosi has joined
  572. valo has joined
  573. MattJ has left
  574. daniel has left
  575. winfried has joined
  576. valo has joined
  577. Guus has left
  578. Yagiza Hello!
  579. labdsf has joined
  580. Guus has left
  581. winfried has joined
  582. labdsf has joined
  583. Yagiza How do you feel about writing a XEP for file transfer via UDP?
  584. Valerian has left
  585. Valerian has joined
  586. daniel has left
  587. Valerian has left
  588. Valerian has joined
  589. lskdjf has joined
  590. genofire has left
  591. daniel has left
  592. daniel has left
  593. waqas has left
  594. goffi has joined
  595. lumi has joined
  596. daniel has left
  597. valo has joined
  598. nyco has left
  599. matlag has left
  600. SamWhited Why UDP?
  601. blabla has left
  602. l has joined
  603. l has joined
  604. guusdk has left
  605. guusdk has joined
  606. intosi has joined
  607. intosi has joined
  608. goffi has left
  609. waqas has joined
  610. efrit has joined
  611. Maranda has joined
  612. Valerian has left
  613. winfried has joined
  614. ji-ef has joined
  615. intosi has joined
  616. intosi has joined
  617. Zash Isn't there a Jingle UDP transport already?
  618. Zash Might be meant for real time media I guess
  619. Zash TFTP over XMPP?
  620. Link Mauve I’ve already used it for a video game.
  621. Link Mauve But it can lose or reorder packets, you’d need an additional protocol on top of it to make it behave like TCP.
  622. mimi89999 has left
  623. Link Mauve At which point, why don’t you use TCP instead?
  624. lskdjf has left
  625. valo has joined
  626. efrit has left
  627. efrit has joined
  628. mightyBroccoli has left
  629. mightyBroccoli has joined
  630. l has left
  631. l has left
  632. flow Yagiza, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0176.html ?
  633. Yagiza flow, yes
  634. Yagiza flow, right now it can't be used for file transfer. But we can write a XEP for it.
  635. winfried has joined
  636. mrdoctorwho has joined
  637. lskdjf has left
  638. j.r has joined
  639. flow Yagiza, why can't it be used for file transfer?
  640. j.r has joined
  641. ThibG has joined
  642. Yagiza flow, because we need a way to provide reliability when using UDP.
  643. ThibG has joined
  644. Zash SCTP over DTLS over UDP?
  645. Zash Like ... WebRTC?
  646. SamWhited Yagiza: what use case do you ahve for using UDP with some application level reliability stuff that you couldn't just use TCP for?
  647. intosi has joined
  648. fippo zash: old fashioned, quic is the next big thing ther
  649. fippo xep-0343 provides a mapping of the sdp stuff to jingle
  650. Yagiza SamWhited, when entities are behind NAT (common case) the need a relay to use TCP. Using a relay make them depend on the realy. UDP could be used directly without a relay.
  651. Zash Why isn't there a XEP for bittorrent?
  652. Zash Yagiza: DUP hole punching stuff?
  653. fippo yagiza: that is true only ~70% of the time.
  654. Zash Didn't that need an outside 3rd party anyway?
  655. Link Mauve Zash, you know I’ve wanted to write one? :D
  656. Yagiza Zash, there is no problem in finding a public STUN server over internet. There are hundreds of them. But it's a real problem to find TURN or even SOCKS5 server.
  657. fippo because those things are expensive.
  658. Zash Don't a lot of XMPP servers provide a XEP-0065 SOCKS5 proxy for this?
  659. Yagiza Zash, there are not so many people, who want to run a server, which channels are used by unknown people.
  660. Zash Yagiza: [citation needed]
  661. Yagiza Zash, yes. Nowadays it's hard to find a public working XEP-0065 server.
  662. Zash Only because everyone's using HTTP upload instead
  663. fippo because xep-65 proxies are expensive to run too?
  664. matlag has left
  665. thorsten has joined
  666. Zash Link Mauve: Do it. I think I've even got a mod_bittorrent tracker somewhere.
  667. Link Mauve Zash, but as a XEP or as a BEP, or both?
  668. blabla has left
  669. Zash :D
  670. Yagiza fippo, yes. Unlike a STUN server.
  671. Maranda Yagiza: "public"?
  672. Yagiza Maranda, yes.
  673. Maranda has proxy65 runnin' on his service 🤔
  674. Yagiza Maranda, most of working XEP-065 servers caould be used only with accounts, registered on the server where it hosted.
  675. Maranda Ah of course
  676. Yagiza Maranda, so, they re private.
  677. lskdjf has left
  678. Zash But then they don't get the green checkmark on https://compliance.conversations.im/
  679. fippo yagiza: stun servers cost < 1000 bytes per call.
  680. vaulor has joined
  681. Yagiza fippo, yeah.
  682. guusdk has left
  683. guusdk has joined
  684. Yagiza fippo, that's why they could be preferred over relays.
  685. Maranda Yagiza: well it would be not very *cool* to have an open socks5 proxy either tbh
  686. Yagiza Maranda, yes. And that's why it's a good idea to transfer files over UDP.
  687. Guus has left
  688. fippo yagiza: that is what ice (rfc 5245 / xep-0176) does. try everything, prefer the cheapest
  689. intosi has joined
  690. Yagiza fippo, I didn't find a way of using UDP thru NAT without a relay described in RFC 5245.
  691. fippo yagiza: that is what stun does in that context. you gather public ips, then do holepunching. works 70% of the time
  692. Zash 70% of the time it works every time
  693. fippo unless you are in chrome where it depends on the direction of the connection -- but google folks won't bother investigating :-)
  694. Yagiza fippo, hey! Don't mix srflx and relay addresses. You won't be able to establish a TCP connection with srflx candidates and UDP do not provide reliability!
  695. fippo yagiza: ice-tcp doesn't work for p2p, that is well-known.
  696. Steve Kille has joined
  697. Yagiza fippo, yes! So we go back to my first sentence.
  698. fippo yagiza: FYI: i am running a hundreds of turn servers all around the world.
  699. Yagiza fippo, we need a XEP for using UDP for file transfer.
  700. Zash Oh, can you anycast such?
  701. fippo yagiza: run it over ice if you want it to work. jingle also has a raw udp mode but i doubt anyone bothers anymore
  702. Yagiza fippo, are they free to use?
  703. fippo yagiza: no.
  704. Yagiza fippo, and that's enough to think they are not exist.
  705. fippo yagiza: would you please explain that to the people sending me bills for datatransfer over their network?
  706. intosi has joined
  707. Yagiza fippo, why do I need that?
  708. Guus has left
  709. fippo i would prefer not to pay those bills :-)
  710. Yagiza fippo, yes. That's why I tell that we need a way to perform file transfer over UDP.
  711. Zash There is no such thing as a free byte
  712. fippo yagiza: https://www.twilio.com/stun-turn/pricing -- just to give you an impression of cost. they make a good margin on that...
  713. Yagiza Zash, yes. That's why we need to save traffic thru servers. 'cause their owners do not want pay for other people's traffic.
  714. Zash Yagiza: *networks*
  715. Zash Bandwidth usage costs too
  716. fippo yes. that is why using TURN is only a fallback in ice.
  717. efrit has left
  718. Yagiza fippo, yes. But it's impossible to use TCP in ICE without TURN when entities are behind their NAT's.
  719. Yagiza fippo, so once again: we need a way to perform file transfer with UDP.
  720. Zash Yagiza: Write the XEP then? :)
  721. fippo yagiza: use xep-0343 which runs over ice.
  722. Yagiza Zash, yes. That's what I suggest.
  723. fippo https://github.com/legastero/jingle-interop-demos/ -- the stanza.io demo allowed that five years ago.
  724. l has left
  725. Yagiza fippo, thanx. I'll investigate it.
  726. fippo i wouldn't be surpised if that particular version was broken due to changes in webrtc.
  727. matlag has left
  728. winfried has joined
  729. Yagiza fippo, but I guess relying on things like WebRTC is not a good idea at all. We can just create a simple transport protocol just to provide reliability when sending data stream over UDP.
  730. l has left
  731. Steve Kille has left
  732. fippo yagiza: people didn't come up with RFC 5245 (or its successor) for fun.
  733. Link Mauve edhelas, have you tested Movim against these five clients, btw?
  734. Link Mauve Yagiza, another benefit of WebRTC is that you suddenly are compatible with web clients too.
  735. Link Mauve Of which there are actually quite a few already.
  736. Yagiza fippo, what do you mean?
  737. fippo yagiza: NATs are a bit more complicated to traverse than you expect
  738. Yagiza fippo, NATs are easily traversed by ICE. Do I suggest not to use ICE for NAT traversing or something?
  739. fippo yes.
  740. labdsf has left
  741. Yagiza fippo, please, sho me the place where I told such things.
  742. fippo if you don'T like browsers, there are libs like https://github.com/rawrtc/rawrtc or https://github.com/jlaine/aiortc/
  743. fippo yagiza: ah... i missed a "not". but you keep saying "udp" and ice is not just udp
  744. Yagiza fippo, I strongly suggest using ICE for NAT traversing. And that's why I suggest to make a XEP for file transfer over UDP.
  745. fippo yagiza: 0343 + 0234
  746. labdsf has joined
  747. fippo (0234 can use 0176, 0343 provides datachannels for reliability)
  748. Yagiza fippo, ok. If you think WebRTC is the best way to provide reliability over UDP, let's agree on this.
  749. fippo technically what provides reliability is sctp over dtls over sctp but saying its webrtc leaves a hole for quic to sneak in :-)
  750. lorddavidiii has left
  751. lovetox has left
  752. lorddavidiii has joined
  753. Yagiza I just don't like so many unfamiliar abbreviations. It suggests me that each of them add some overhead.
  754. fippo it was easier in the old days of ircs DCC
  755. Yagiza fippo, yeah. I used DCC, but never thought about how it works.
  756. intosi has joined
  757. lovetox has joined
  758. lovetox has left
  759. lorddavidiii has left
  760. valo has joined
  761. Maranda has joined
  762. intosi has left
  763. intosi has joined
  764. lnj has left
  765. matlag has left
  766. blabla has joined
  767. Yagiza has left
  768. !xsf_martin has left
  769. valo has joined
  770. efrit has joined
  771. ralphm has joined
  772. Guus has left
  773. intosi has joined
  774. intosi has joined
  775. Ge0rG DCC was notoriously broken with NAT. And then you had mod_conntrack_irc and then you connected to a non standard port and it was all bad again.
  776. Guus has left
  777. lovetox has joined
  778. intosi has left
  779. intosi has joined
  780. daniel has left
  781. ThibG has left
  782. Nekit has joined
  783. ThibG has joined
  784. blabla has left
  785. blabla has joined
  786. matlag has left
  787. nyco has left
  788. lovetox has left
  789. j.r has left
  790. matlag has left
  791. intosi has left
  792. intosi has joined
  793. Zash has left
  794. Zash has left
  795. thorsten has joined
  796. tux has joined
  797. dedekin has left
  798. intosi has joined
  799. intosi has joined
  800. daniel has left
  801. marc has left
  802. intosi has joined
  803. intosi has joined
  804. j.r has joined
  805. lumi has left
  806. lnj has left
  807. MattJ has joined
  808. intosi has left
  809. intosi has joined
  810. Guus has left
  811. Guus has left
  812. intosi has left
  813. intosi has joined
  814. lskdjf has left
  815. matlag has left
  816. Maranda has left
  817. lskdjf has left
  818. intosi has left
  819. intosi has joined
  820. lskdjf has left
  821. lskdjf has left
  822. Ge0rG has left
  823. rion has left
  824. genofire has left
  825. daniel has left
  826. efrit has left
  827. Tobias has joined
  828. UsL has left
  829. UsL has joined
  830. daniel has left
  831. SamWhited has left
  832. lskdjf has left