XSF Discussion - 2018-10-31

Anyone want to find the bit of 6121 that says you receive your other resources' presence when you come online for me? AFAICS after a few minutes hunting it doesn't actually say that other than mentioning an implicit subscription

I haven't looked, but isn't that enough?

kev: 4.2.2?

fippo: Says about sending to your resources when you come online, not about receiving from them, I think.

MattJ: Only if you apply a lot of thinking, I think. The phrasing is """ The user's server MUST also broadcast initial presence from the user's newly available resource to all of the user's available resources, including the resource that generated the presence notification in the first place (i.e., an entity is implicitly subscribed to its own presence). """

Unless you already knew that you had to do it, I don't think a reasonable person would read that and realise, would they?

Depends - are you calling all current server devs unreasonable people? :)

I've never heard this cast into doubt before

mattj: we just did what jabberd did

MattJ: No, I think all the current server devs already knew what needed to be done so it didn't matter than 6121 didn't say it.

Or didn't say it in a way people would pick up.

I do agree that the 'implicit sub' bit does mean to do this (well, actually to send probes to yourself, with an optional optimisation), I was just surprised that we didn't say it explicitly.

having an explicit "send presence from all available resources" there would be better indeed. now what is the best way to fix that...

4.3.1 is the other wiggly part of this.

That lets you wriggle out of the probes for the implicit sub, yeah.

"now what is the best way to fix that..." report as errata, so that it won't be forgotten in a possibly follow-up rfc?

Feel free to file an erratum on RFC 6121. It seems clear to me, but I'm probably too close to it even after all these years. :-) Also, you don't have to send probes to your own account, I'd say.

(Thanks to Fippo for the ping on IRC!)

i think "IRC" is a bad word on this channel :-p

Hey we invented Jabber over IRC. ;-)

peter: and it shows in things like MUC. So you can be pinged on IRC to get you summoned to XMPP?

I'm on irc.mozilla.org all day long.

only during he days :-p

Oh, I don't think I ever connected there. If only there was federation between IRC networks...

But I've been logging in here more too - however I use two computers and don't always look at this one. :-)

put up a single-network-biboumi

Or a multi network biboumi, for that matter. I'm doing 95% of my IRC needs from yaxim / poezio / XMPP

I'm doing all my IRC through biboumi now

Did you just use "certificates" as a verb?

There's a network requiring special modes and another one with client SSL certificates ✏

Ah, LMC to the rescue, now also in yaxim!

But why did you send that message multiple times, I don't even see the small difference that my eyes glance right over because I've already read your message once and assume it's just a transport problem and it got sent twice like SMS does sometimes?

Because that's how Last Message Correction works?

SamWhited: looks like your client fails at LMC

Or doesn't work ... (test) ✏

LMC in MUCs has some privacy implications

Ge0rG: The replacement message doesn't stay in the same position, bug, intentional, limitation?

Zash: looks like the timestamp is updated to the correcting timestamp, reordering the messages. I'd say it's a minor bug

Ge0rG: More minor than not indicating that any correcting happened.

Zash: I'm not sure what you mean.

Ge0rG: I don't see that the UI indicates that a message has been replaced.

Zash: there is a wiring hand Emoji by the timestamp

Ge0rG: Did you add that after Sunday or is the device missing emoji fonts?

Zash: ✍. If your phone can't render it, it's not my fault!

Zash: I've done significant work for the 0.9.3 release this week. Upgrade now!

Testing ✏

Ge0rG: Ok, works now

In the chat database, I'm aggregating LMC into the original message, so it's slightly quirky if something goes wrong, or if the correction lands before the original

The wiki page for membership applications states "responsibilities of XSF members are listed here" but there is no list/link to a list.

Syndace: https://xmpp.org/community/membership.html

thanks