XSF Discussion - 2018-11-03

  1. jonas’


  2. edhelas

    I made some changes yesterday to the MUC Avatars XEP (renamed to Resources Avatars) to generalize the publication of avatars on any XMPP resources. For the Pubsub nodes I used the <configure> tag (see https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/713/files#diff-5f89805e586ecd845ea99f0c89f337bcR141) and I'd be cirous to know your point of view on that way of doing things.

  3. jonas’

    edhelas, ping me tomorrow, I’ll probably not have the time to process the PR today

  4. edhelas

    no problem :)

  5. Ge0rG

    edhelas: "resource" has a distinct meaning in xmpp, you should use "entity" probably

  6. edhelas


  7. Ge0rG

    And I don't think you need "XMPP" in the title

  8. Ge0rG

    For my taste, "entity" is too generic, but I don't see a better term

  9. Ge0rG

    "Service Avatars" wouldn't quite fit. Maybe "Non-User Avatars"? But that has some inelegance to it.

  10. Ge0rG

    "Machine Avatars" doesn't cut it either.

  11. flow

    naming things is hard

  12. flow

    Right now I would favor "Entity Avatars"

  13. Ge0rG

    Yes, my other suggestions were clearly worse, but intended to spur creative discussion.

  14. flow

    It appears there is no way to determine if xep198 resumption is supported by just looking at the stream features. :/ I wonder if it is worth changing that…

  15. jonas’

    flow, what would you gain from that information?

  16. flow

    jonas’, Smack's integration test framework could determine right after connecting if the stream resumption test should been run or not

  17. flow

    whereas right now I've to wait until <enabled/>

  18. jonas’

    I see

  19. flow

    and given that resumption is an optional part of sm and most sm implementations start with ack only, it would just be nice to announce the availability of that optional feature in the stream features

  20. jonas’

    hm, normal clients probably don’t care because you can make use of acks anyways

  21. daniel

    Plus you probably want the ack on resume

  22. daniel

    Even if the resume itself will fail

  23. Zash

    I made one that only acked, stored the 'h' count and returned that on attempted resume.

  24. jonas’

    how does that help?

  25. Zash

    Simple implementation, client gets to know what was lost.

  26. Zash

    As in, it persisted the ack number across restarts and whatever.

  27. jonas’

    hm, but stanzas from the server would then still be lost?

  28. daniel

    > hm, but stanzas from the server would then still be lost? Get it from mam

  29. Zash

    They'd be known to be unacked at session destruction time

  30. Zash

    also that

  31. daniel

    I mean a full on sm implementation is still better

  32. daniel

    But I see the benefits of the simplicity

  33. Zash

    > Prosody - a study in simplicity

  34. jonas’


  35. jonas’

    it violates expectations of the client though

  36. jonas’

    but not in a way which you need to be able to handle anyways…

  37. jonas’

    (e.g. an IQ response could be lost due to that)

  38. jonas’

    I wonder whether it’s valuable to degrade to this behaviour when memory pressure gets too high to maintain all hibernated sessions

  39. Zash

    That was probably the idea behind having the h value in the resumption-failed response

  40. jonas’


  41. jonas’

    so you’re saying "resumption failed, but here’s the h I know"

  42. jonas’

    I didn’t even know that was possible

  43. Zash

    It's new

  44. Zash


  45. jonas’

    2015-09-13. not sure I have an excuse for not seeing that...

  46. Zash

    Feels like yesterday

  47. Ge0rG

    I wonder how many clients honor the server parameter for resumption.

  48. lovetox

    Gajim does

  49. lovetox

    important, otherwise you resend messages already sent and produce duplicates

  50. Ge0rG

    lovetox: I mean the location value > The <enabled/> element MAY include a 'location' attribute to specify the server's preferred IP address or hostname (optionally with a port) for reconnection

  51. lovetox

    gajim honors it

  52. lovetox

    though never tested

  53. lovetox

    let me take that back, it probably will not work :D

  54. rion

    I'm not sure if it ever tested for Psi but the code is as well there

  55. Ge0rG

    What's psi? 😜

  56. Ge0rG

    I know for sure it won't work in yaxim

  57. rion

    yep. psi is somewhat unknown nowdays. almost no time for development. and in fact I prefer Telegram to xmpp.

  58. rion

    although I released 1.4 a couple of days ago.

  59. rion

    basically includes just SM fixes

  60. Ge0rG

    Telegram is also very popular with Russian jabber spammers

  61. rion


  62. Ge0rG

    rion: there are still people using pidgin, so nothing against psi.

  63. Ge0rG

    rion: what about making psi as easily usable as telegram?

  64. rion

    Ge0rG: only if I quit my job.

  65. rion

    and family ))

  66. Zash

    Doooo iiiiit

  67. rion


  68. Ge0rG

    Move under a bridge with free wifi and dedicate your life to Easy XMPP

  69. Link Mauve

    Yup, I can highly recommend quitting your job if you can afford it.

  70. Ge0rG

    I can't.

  71. Zash

    Vägra jobba Svik tillväxten Var oförmögen