vanitasvitae: done, should be crawled somewhere in the next 30min
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vanitasvitae
ralphm: nice. Thank you very much :)
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jonas’
is there any reason to use a CSPRNG for stanza @id values?
jonas’
(if one checks both @from and @id when associating replies)
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Zash
jonas’: Probably overkill, but why not?
jonas’
Zash, takes double the time
jonas’
(when sourced from getrandom())
Zash
because syscall?
jonas’
yeah
jonas’
(probably)
Zash
jonas’: compared to what? and is it a problem?
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jonas’
Zash, compared to the mersenne twister
jonas’
we’re revisiting how aioxmpp generates stanza IDs
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Ge0rG
I wonder what the possible attack vector is. Injecting IQ responses ahead of the actual response? By whom?
Ge0rG
Unless you have a smack3 level of stanza correlation, where you just run a packet listener based on the packet ID, ignoring the @from
jonas’
that was my train of thought, too
jonas’
anyone who would be able to inject a reply is on the path anyways and can observe the @from and the @id
jonas’
assuming that s2s authentication and routing in servers works as intended
Ge0rG
a bold assumption.
jonas’
so if you can off-path inject stanzas due to broken s2s authentication (but you cannot intercept them entirely), being able to predict stanza IDs would be useful
jonas’
this could work with broken one-way s2s auth, some dialback stuff for example
Ge0rG
reminds me of the `Received[s2sout]` debug logs I saw today from my prosody.
jonas’
but uh
Ge0rG
s2s directions make me dizzy.
Zash
don't look at dialback
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Ge0rG
I won't. Dialback, PubSub and MIX are danger zones I avoid at all costs.
jonas’
so, the attack is rather hard and unlikely (it is more likely that you’ll be able to intercept the sent stanza and send a reply without having to guess the @id) and requires fault in another component
jonas’
huh, putting dialback into the same bucket as pubsub and mix is ... interesting
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Zash
jonas’: having multiple PRNGs available might lead to accidentally using a weak one for something sensitive, and if it's something that can slowly leak state that might be bad
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jonas’
Zash, that’s what sebi is saying
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Kev
Not reading everything, but predictable IDs are a privacy leak rather than a practical attack, for the most part.
jonas’
how are they a privacy leak?
Kev
<message id='sessionstanza4234230498723408974'><body>Sorry, I've only just come online, I've not been ignoring you</...
jonas’
right
jonas’
that’s something different than just predictability though
jonas’
that’s sequential
Kev
It's somewhere in between, I think.
jonas’
a mersenne twister is predictable (with enough computing and enough samples), but by seeing a value, you don’t know whether that’s the first, tenth, or 1000th value
Kev
It doesn't have to be strictly sequential to have this property.
jonas’
mmm
jonas’
I see your point though
Kev
This was mostly a problem for two reasons:
1) People were using 1,2,3...
2) Some libraries are (were?) completely broken and ignored the sender of a stanza as long as the id was expected, so you could inject weird iq responses and they'd trust them.
Kev
(2) Is just brokenness
Kev
(1) has the unexpected privacy implications.
Ge0rG
yaxim is full of (2).
Kev
I don't think we need crypto-secure IDs.
Ge0rG
Now give me a CVE!
Zash
Ge0rG: Weren't there one or more for that already?
Ge0rG
Zash: not for that, no
Ge0rG
yaxim's got two CVEs so far IIRC.
Zash
Ge0rG: I distinctly remember CVE(s) for not checking 'from' on eg roster pushes that affected a *ton* of clients.
Ge0rG
Zash: yeah, I think smack wasn't affected or somesuch
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Alex
memberbot is online for accepting your votes on the board & council election
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Seve
Great! Thank you Alex
Seve
And good luck everyone!
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jonas’
thanks, Alex
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Ge0rG
Last time I checked, one of the applications was still empty...
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jonas’
they’re all non-empty :)
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Alex
there was some hard last minute work happening ;-)
jonas’
as usual..
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lovetox
Gajim uses uuid as id, but i just checked and indeed it does not check the answer adress
lovetox
just the id
lovetox
how bad is this?
lovetox
i guess if someone is in the position to utilize that, then the id doesnt matter anyway because he is a man in the middle?
lovetox
hm yeah the chance that another contact guesses the uuid at the exact right time is impossible