flowuhh that is indeed a gem I had missed all the years
Ge0rGYes, the emacs manual clearly is a policy violation
flowbut still I stand by my statement
jonas’but RFC 6120 allows both:
If a connected resource or peer server sends a stanza
that violates the upper limit, the receiving server MUST either
return a <policy-violation/> stanza error (Section 8.3.3.12),
thus allowing the sender to recover, or close the stream with a
<policy-violation/> stream error (Section 4.9.3.14).
jonas’(see 13.12. Denial of Service)
Guushas joined
ZashWhat do we do?
tahas joined
Ge0rGCrash
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
remkohas joined
labdsfhas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
vaulorhas joined
Guushas left
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Guushas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Zashhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
andyhas left
andyhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Guushas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
Steve Killehas left
Steve Killehas left
lnjhas joined
Steve Killehas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lnjhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Guushas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
vaulorhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Steve Killehas left
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Guushas left
Guushas joined
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
ThibGhas joined
Guushas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
vaulorhas joined
ralphmhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Yagizahas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
mimi89999has joined
mimi89999has joined
thorstenhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
thorstenhas joined
Steve Killehas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
APachhas left
Steve Killehas joined
vaulorhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Zashhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Str4tocasterhas left
lorddavidiiihas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Andrew Nenakhovhas left
Andrew Nenakhovhas joined
Guushas joined
alacerhas joined
alacerhas left
alacerhas joined
blablahas left
blablahas joined
Zashhas left
mimi89999has joined
alacerhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
rionhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
tahas left
blablahas left
blablahas joined
lumihas joined
Str4tocasterhas joined
efrithas joined
Ge0rGhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
vaulorhas joined
j.rhas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Zashhas left
andrey.ghas left
ralphmhas joined
andrey.ghas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Zashhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Zashhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Zashhas joined
Zashhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Zashhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
j.rhas joined
Str4tocasterhas joined
efrithas left
j.rhas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
mimi89999has left
mimi89999has joined
j.rhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Yagizahas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
genofirehas left
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Str4tocasterhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Str4tocasterhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
matlaghas left
matlaghas left
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
guusdkhas left
alexdehas joined
Zashhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
j.rhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
alexdehas left
Zashhas left
j.rhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lorddavidiiihas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
moparisthebesthas joined
moparisthebesthas joined
rionhas left
alacerhas joined
lorddavidiiihas left
alacerhas left
alacerhas joined
Zashhas left
Holgerhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Holgerhas joined
Holgerhas joined
alacerhas left
Zashhas left
waqashas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
matlaghas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lhas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Zashhas left
moparisthebesthas left
moparisthebesthmm I didn't realize I hadn't had xmpp spam for months until I got 5 today...
moparisthebestI suppose that is in some ways good
ZashClassic human, doesn't know how good you have it until it gets worse
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
ThibGhas joined
ThibGhas joined
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, there is a huge IBR registration wave which started three days ago, so it’s no wonder it’s finally getting used.
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, please report to their server admin, domain registrar, IP provider, in this order.
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Yagizahas left
mrdoctorwhohas left
lorddavidiiihas joined
!xsf_martinhas joined
alacerhas joined
alacerhas left
alacerhas joined
mrdoctorwhohas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
waqashas left
alacerhas left
vaulorhas left
vanitasvitaehas left
vanitasvitaehas joined
blablahas left
goffihas left
goffihas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lnjhas joined
mrdoctorwhohas joined
guusdkhas left
blablahas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
j.rhas joined
vaulorhas joined
ThibGhas left
ThibGhas joined
guusdkhas left
blablahas left
genofirehas left
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
edhelaswe had a nice article from a user about OMEMO published https://fr.movim.eu/?blog/debacle%40movim.eu/things-i-don-t-like-with-omemo-as-it-is-today-ogqaAM
edhelasI'd be happy if some of you can reply to him about the points he mentionned
nycohas left
nycohas left
andyhas left
blablahas joined
j.rhas joined
Yagizahas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
efrithas joined
guusdkhas left
Neustradamushas left
lhas left
lhas joined
jjrhhas left
blablahas joined
Ge0rGI agree with those points.
edhelasI'm also thinking of adding xCal (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6321/) to Pubsub items, next to the Atom elements, to be able to attach events
blablahas joined
Link Mauveedhelas, see https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/calendaring.html maybe.
Link MauveI never managed to figure out why it hadn’t been accepted.
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
ZashHmmm, http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ don't go back that far :(
edhelasthis is not based on the RFC 6321 (by Peter St Andre by the way) and rely on some server things
ZashBut I recall someone saying we shouldn't try to re-do calendaring, it's a complicated problem
edhelasalso it basically define a specific calendar node
edhelashere I just want to append events to blog publication
ZashSticking calendar events in PubSub seems fine enough
edhelaslike you're doing when attaching .cal file to your emails
Link MauveDon’t you want notifications and such rather than just a dumb storage?
Link MauveHave a look at how iCal servers such as Radicale are doing it.
edhelaswell if you already suscribed to the node or following the JID you'll get notified by those events
ZashLink Mauve: I recommend you don't if you value your sanity
ZashiCal is very complicated
jjrhhas left
Link MauveZash, I know, I’ve worked on that in the past.
edhelasI'll give it a try, just create a small piece of UI to set a date, title, location when publishing a post
Link Mauveedhelas, isn’t Atom enough for this purpose?
ZashI've researched it. CardDAV is acceptable, but CalDAV is complicated madness
edhelasLink Mauve Atom is not made for events
j.rhas joined
edhelasrfc6321 looks fine to me
edhelasand then Movim can generate .cal file out of it to import the events in the calendar applications
jonas’(instead of annotating the roster directly) ✏
ralphmhas left
rionone should remove presences from xmpp and replace them with pep =)
labdsfhas left
flowPossibly, maybe there are other alternatives, maybe a caps like mechanism would be sensible. I haven't given it much thought, as people already started annotating the roster
jonas’flow, only mix annotates it, right?
jonas’MIX also has some .. special requirements because they want to hide the MIXes from clients which don’t understand MIX
jonas’so I don’t think that’s a good precedent in general
flowWell I wouldn't rule it out that there are other XEPs (and ProtoXEPs) burried which also it
!xsf_martinhas joined
!xsf_martinhas joined
jonas’protoxeps don’t count
flowHelp me here, MIX annotating was a <mix/> element to the roster <item/>, right? How does that help with hiding anything?
guusdkhas left
jonas’you only get it when you ask for it
flowjonas’, you don't happen to have a pointer to the relevant section of the MIX spec at hand?
guusdkhas joined
alacerhas joined
lnjhas joined
jonas’(*shaking fist at mozilla for taking away the possibility to disable ctrl+q)
flowHmm, what if another client of mine adds a MIX channel, does the roster push contain <channel/> or not?
guusdkhas joined
flowOr isn't there a roster push send?
alacerhas left
Zashhas left
flowHow about the server queries the client's disco#info before the first roster operation and decides based on the resulting disco#info how the roster is presented, and sends additional stanzas with the related roster item information for optional features…
jonas’that was discussed on-list
Steve Killehas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Steve Killehas left
Steve Killehas joined
lovetoxhas joined
flowgreat, or not great, because it was probably dismissed
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
lovetoxhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
jjrhI was reading XEP-0409, not sure the problem it's trying to solve. Is the idea to allow new XEPs to eventually modernize routing for IM users and have IM-NG for legacy or specific use cases (like M2M )?
!xsf_martinhas left
guusdkhas left
Steve Killehas left
guusdkhas joined
flowjjrh, the problem is that current rfc6120/6121 routing rules are unnecessarily complex, I'd say
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
guusdkhas left
UsLhas left
UsLhas joined
guusdkhas left
guusdkhas joined
waqashas joined
jjrhoh the part about carbons MUST NOT be enabled confused me, but I didn't read close enough - the server will reflect the message to all my IM-NG resources so i'll see my own messages.
j.rhas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
lumihas left
lhas left
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
!xsf_martinhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Ge0rGThe current rules are complex and insufficient for a reality where a user has multiple clients
lskdjfhas left
Ge0rGBut we can't just change them because it might break current use cases outside of IM, and Carbons and MAM are not sufficient because they are just hacks on top of the bad rules.
lhas joined
lskdjfhas joined
Nekithas left
Nekithas joined
Ge0rGSomebody gave a talk at the February 2018 Summit about what needs fixing, and IM-NG was the resulting specification
Ge0rGXEP-0359 needs to mandate that the stanza @id MUST (SHOULD) be the same as the <origin-id> @id
flowhear hear
!xsf_martinhas joined
Ge0rGflow: we had that discussion many months ago, and I didn't change my mind because you didn't bring up compelling arguments. Feel free to convinve me on list or just add that one sentence.
flowI would be more interested if you envision a namespace bump or not
Ge0rGflow: how many implementations are there? And how many don't set the two @id fields to the same value?
ralphmhas left
marchas left
Yagizahas left
blablahas joined
Yagizahas joined
pep.Holger, "Edit: Add point about OMEMO complexity and errors, thanks to Holger!" on debacle's article re OMEMO. Should we deprecate this one now? :-°
pep.Also, "It does not work with local, serverless messaging. I don't use this feature a lot, but still, encryption should work with it, too." too bad, because that's actually one place where it would actually be useful