XSF Discussion - 2018-11-19

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  251. Guus

    the Observatory appears to be misbehaving. PHP errors on the front page. Jonas', would you mind kicking off that frontend docker hub project, to see if it goes away?

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  254. jonas’

    Guus, I can’t

  255. jonas’

    it needs manual iteam intervention, it’s not pulled automatically from docker hub

  256. Guus


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  258. Guus


  259. jonas’

    I’ve tried to get iteam attention for weeks now about this :(

  260. jonas’

    but in my mind, I already figured that we need to re-implement this on top of something less awful to maintain

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  263. Guus

    What we see now is not a relatively simple front-end issue?

  264. Guus

    where's the code anyway? Docker pulls from a non-existing github repo?

  265. Guus

    https://bitbucket.org/horazont/xmppoke-frontend <-- that one?

  266. Guus

    err, bitbucket, not github

  267. jonas’

    the xmppoke docker stuff itself on https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-docker

  268. jonas’

    the frontend lives here: https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-frontend-docker

  269. Guus

    yes, but line 14? https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-frontend-docker/blob/master/Dockerfile#L14

  270. edhelas

    (I just posted the release note of Movim 0.14 on HN, for those that are interested https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18485822)

  271. jonas’

    Guus, ha, nice

  272. jonas’

    but why

  273. jonas’

    I don’t have mit bitbucket credentials at hand to check

  274. Guus

    bitbucket never agreed with me

  275. Guus

    hopefully you can find out what happened later

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  279. jonas’

    Guus, I might forget, feel free to remind me later today (15:00Z+) or on wednesday

  280. Guus


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  295. flow

    why not put a static page up on xmpp.net, saying that we are looking for help maintaining it

  296. Zash

    Sounds good

  297. daniel

    I'd volunteer to just rewrite it. But I think someone else is already doing so

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  300. Kev

    It seems to be broken.

  301. Kev

    I restarted both poke and the frontend, and the frontend refuses to come up.

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  307. Guus

    Kev, that's probably because the docker instance is being composed partly from a repository that's currently unvailable.

  308. Guus

    before the restart, the frontend gave a different error.

  309. Guus

    Daniel: what makes you think that someone else is already doing so/

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  311. daniel

    Someone told me

  312. daniel


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  314. daniel

    Holger mentioned that Matt the jabber.at admin is working on it and also sent me a link that I haven't had time to check out yet

  315. Kev

    Guus: It was just starting it, rather than recreating the image.

  316. Holger


  317. Holger

    daniel: But in the meantime, he said "right now, it's more or less on ice".

  318. daniel

    If that doesn't lead anywhere I might start my own. I want a test that then will result in a simple boolean to integrate it into the compliance tester

  319. daniel

    And if I write the tooling to create the boolean I already have what it takes to generate a more verbose output

  320. Kev

    I suspect that the frontend can't cope with being restarted without being recreated, or something.

  321. Guus

    Daniel / Holger: Nice!

  322. Guus

    Kev: Odd!

  323. Guus

    Until a viable replacement is available, it's probably best not to give up on our old instance though

  324. Kev

    It seems like someone's moved things around on the filesystem and broken things, but I don't remember who set this up.

  325. daniel

    I think I might have to grow the compliance tester into a more general thing anyway. During the sprint I wrote a thing that tests for cors headers on the HTTP upload

  326. Guus

    might take a while before the replacement is ready. Looking at the effort that has gone into the old, but also the new tings (100+ commits) ...

  327. daniel

    At some point it will make sense to integrate tls testers

  328. Guus

    Kev, might've been me?

  329. Kev

    Let's see if I can at least fix the backup script before I go nuclear on it.

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  331. Kev

    As things stand the backup script is broken, and the README is wrong.

  332. Kev

    (And the container won't start)

  333. Kev

    Well, at least I've got the backup script working again.

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  340. Kev

    Oh, the creation scripts only work if the instance is running. If it's not running, they'll refuse to install a new one.

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  344. Kev

    Got it back to Warning: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable in /var/www/html/index.php on line 97 state, at least.

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  347. Guus

    Thanks Kev

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  351. jonas’

    daniel, who is rewriting it?

  352. jonas’

    the TLS tests can be easily based on testssl.sh, it has a JSON formatted output

  353. jonas’

    that was the plan when I get around to do it, but I didn’t start

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  375. Guus

    jonas' : https://github.com/mathiasertl/xmpp-test

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  409. Guus

    Jonas' this is your 15:01Z callback ping 🙂

  410. jonas’


  411. jonas’

    apparently I changed my username and bitbucket doesn’t do redirects :)

  412. moparisthebest

    jonas’: what I'm hearing is you broke it and it's all your fault

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  414. moparisthebest

    Lol <3

  415. jonas’

    Guus, fix for the URL is pushed

  416. Guus

    thanks jonas' !

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  427. jonas’

    isn’t there a general race condition with multiple clients of the same account in a single MUC where when a MUC forwards a groupchat message to one of the clients and the client goes offline, it might get sent by the XMPP server to the other client ("most available resource")?

  428. Guus

    jonas' : both index.php as well as list.php don't handle a scenario well where the find_score query doesn't return rows. I'm assuming that's easily fixed. I'm unsure why no scores are returned though. To much work to be processed?

  429. jonas’

    I don’t know

  430. Guus

    https://bitbucket.org/jssfr/xmppoke-frontend/src/84b48437dca24deaf7557c982c069015cf09a396/index.php <-- line 89 does appear to validate if scores is non-empty, but line 97 does not

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  432. jonas’

    I didn’t write the PHP code, and I don’t want to maintain it.

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  434. Guus

    I'll have a stab at fixing the code to prevent the ugly php error

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  438. Guus

    hargh, how do I fork in Bitbucket?

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  441. Guus

    ah, by creating a new repo

  442. Guus

    oh, good, it uses mercurial.

  443. Guus gives up.

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  445. jonas’

    not that hard when you just want to patch a thing

  446. jonas’

    hg clone, do your thing, hg commit file1 file2 ...

  447. Guus

    sure, but that'll make me install hg.

  448. Guus

    I'm doing things in the text editor of bitbucket

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  453. Guus

    Jonas', I think I just created two PRs against your repo, that _should_ fix the issue

  454. jonas’

    Guus, can you try to try it for yourself?

  455. jonas’

    the frontend thing contains a docker-compose file which you should be able to use

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  477. jonas’

    Guus, hm, I’m really not fond of maintaining this

  478. jonas’

    I don’t feel comfortable in reviewing PHP changes, and yet I’m now somewhat of a gatekeeper

  479. Guus

    I'm to stupid for docker

  480. Guus

    somehow, my changes aren't picked up

  481. jonas’

    did you re-build the image? with the correct tag?

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  484. Guus

    probably not

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  488. Guus

    ah, got it

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  493. Guus

    jonas' : my commits fix php-related errors

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  495. Guus

    likely not the underlying issue of the tests not being executed

  496. Guus

    but at least, it's failing more gracefully now.

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  498. jonas’


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  550. MattJ

    jonas’ [15:20]: > isn’t there a general race condition with multiple clients of the same account in a single MUC where when a MUC forwards a groupchat message to one of the clients and the client goes offline, it might get sent by the XMPP server to the other client ("most available resource")?

  551. jonas’

    no, there isn’t, I figured it out by now

  552. jonas’

    due to: Message For a message stanza of type "normal", "groupchat", or "headline", the server MUST either (a) silently ignore the stanza or (b) return an error stanza to the sender, which SHOULD be <service- unavailable/>.

  553. jonas’

    sorry for the noise

  554. MattJ

    Groupchat messages are not redirected to other resources

  555. MattJ

    Sorry, great :)

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  568. Ge0rG

    Also "silently ignore the stanza"

  569. MattJ

    Silently ignore that option

  570. Ge0rG

    Implementation defined behavior.

  571. jonas’


  572. jonas’

    at least not UB!

  573. MattJ

    Silently ignore buggy implementations

  574. Ge0rG

    MattJ: they are not buggy if they are compliant

  575. MattJ

    You think so? :)

  576. Ge0rG

    MattJ: by your definition, mod_carbons and mod_mam are buggy as well

  577. Ge0rG shortly considered writing "as hell"

  578. MattJ

    They are

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  580. Ge0rG

    And the XEPs are buggy too. And the RFC.

  581. MattJ

    TCP/IP is buggy, but (mostly) follows spec

  582. MattJ

    Abandon hope

  583. Zash

    Humans are buggy

  584. jonas’

    it’s all buggy

  585. MattJ

    Not all

  586. MattJ

    The stuff we haven't written yet is perfect

  587. Ge0rG

    It's buggy all the way down. A fractal of bad protocol design

  588. MattJ

    Ge0rG: great name for a client!

  589. Ge0rG

    MattJ: "Buggy"? 😀

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  591. moparisthebest

    Maybe you should just start from scratch, call it matrix or something

  592. Zash

    Bug is a kind of dance?

  593. moparisthebest

    I'm sure you won't hit the same problems :)

  594. Ge0rG

    > have you tried the Buggy messenger? All of them!

  595. Zash

    -y as suffix is hip again?

  596. Zash


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  599. Ge0rG

    Buggy, the zimpy messenger.

  600. Ge0rG

    My phone auto corrected zimpy to "gimpy"

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  603. lovetox

    when was the last XEP that made it to DRAFT, just out of interest?

  604. jonas’

    commit c58d3bbf5ed18e95b374e3bc1db9a85de40f2661 Author: Jonas Wielicki <j.wielicki@sotecware.net> Date: Thu Jan 25 08:54:39 2018 +0100 XEP-0387: Move to draft

  605. jonas’

    that’s a good candidate

  606. Zash

    1806, it was a cold winter that year

  607. jonas’

    ha, the compliance suites

  608. lovetox

    lol :D

  609. lovetox

    ok and now a real xep

  610. lovetox


  611. Zash

    must have been in the dark ages

  612. jonas’

    I’d h ave to do more magic than that, but it might be May 2017

  613. jonas’

    or March?

  614. Maranda has joined

  615. jonas’


  616. jonas’

    back when Sam was still editoring much -- it’s not my fault, I swear!!

  617. Ge0rG

    Getting compliance Suite into draft was hard enough!

  618. Maranda has left

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  621. jonas’

    yes, XEP-0233 was the last one moving to draft before that, that was in Mar 2017

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  636. SamWhited

    Speaking of compliance suites, someone should do some for this upcoming year (even if they're basically the same) so that they don't appear out of date

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  639. jonas’

    yeah, I’ve got that on my todo

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  641. Ge0rG

    If it's the same, can we just update the year?

  642. jonas’

    next council will decide

  643. jonas’

    (but I’m in favour)

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  647. Ge0rG

    I think I was missing one XEP when explaining what's relevant for mobile to haeckse last weekend

  648. Ge0rG

    Oh yes, it's missing 0184

  649. Ge0rG

    I don't even understand how we could miss that.

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