-
Seve
Ge0rG, do you have somewhere where I could link to the new yaxim version?
-
Ge0rG
Seve: yax.im/apk
-
Seve
Ge0rG, 0.9.3 is it, right?
-
Ge0rG
Seve: that Version is also on Google and f-droid
-
Ge0rG
The link is to latest nightly
-
Seve
Ge0rG, just talking about the newsletter
-
Seve
what should I link to?
-
Ge0rG
Seve: Google play, unless I manage to write a blog post until tomorrow
-
Seve
ok Ge0rG :)
-
Ge0rG
Seve: I suppose the download links can go in anyway: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.yaxim.androidclient and https://f-droid.org/packages/org.yaxim.androidclient/ for the cryptowh^H^Hnerds
-
daniel
Is anyone working on either open source server side MIX implementations or willing to give me (and potentially other client developers) access to a (closed source) server that has MIX?
-
Kev
As soon as we've got something sharable, I'd be happy to run up something pokable on the 'net, but we haven't at the moment.
-
daniel
Thanks. That could really help out with the chicken and egg problem the open source jabber community has with MIX
-
Kev
Indeed.
-
jonas’
did new board agree on a meeting time, by the way?
-
ralphm
No, I informed them it is today at 15:30 CET.
-
daniel
has anyone ever looked into compiling xep into mobi/epub
-
daniel
not kidding. but MIX is long enough that reading it on my kindle would be kinda cool
-
Ge0rG
IIRC Zash had some ideas around that, but nothing finished.
-
Zash
I have
-
Zash
Finished to the point of "works for me"
-
Ge0rG
As finished as the color-coded XEP diff txt renderer?
-
Zash
Would be neat to get that into the build process, along with PDF generation and whatnot
-
Ge0rG
👍
-
Zash
Ge0rG: diffs are related but slightly different
-
Ge0rG
But with the XEP build process fetching a new machine image each time, it would delay things even more.
-
ralphm
There's already PDF generation, no?
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: PDF is the worst source for epub/mobi
-
daniel
Zash, care to share your xep to epub scripts?
-
daniel
can mobi/epub switch to monospace?
-
daniel
i have never looked into the format
-
Ge0rG
AFAIU mobi/epub is a kind of XHTML subset.
-
Zash
epub is a zip file with html in it
-
Zash
The stuff I have produces markdown and then uses pandoc to build epubs from that
-
Ge0rG
https://stackoverflow.com/a/21626850/539443 for html->epub with pandoc
-
Ge0rG
calibre is probably a rather heavy dependency
-
daniel
yeah but i need that anyway for the mobi conversion
-
daniel
or at least i have not figured out another way to feed my kindle
-
Ge0rG
daniel: but it might be bad to include it into the official build system
-
daniel
tipps are welcome though
-
Ge0rG
pandoc is slim in comparison
-
Zash
You could try `pandoc xep-xxxx.html -o xep-xxxx.epub`
-
daniel
i guess i'll try that
-
Zash
daniel: https://gist.github.com/Zash/372591d4c61b6af70d810a78bd1af12d
-
Zash
There's the xep -> markdown thing
-
Ge0rG
pandoc: Prelude.read: no parse
-
Zash
and then `pandoc xep-blah.md -o xep-blah.epub`
-
Zash
input needs to have its entities expanded, so https://gist.github.com/Zash/372591d4c61b6af70d810a78bd1af12d#file-xep2md-sh
-
Ge0rG
daniel: `ebook-convert build/xep-0045.html build/xep-0045.epub` WFM
-
Link Mauve
“14:10:54 Zash> epub is a zip file with html in it”, s/html/xhtml/, and a bunch of metadata files, in a specific directory structure.
-
Zash
Sure
-
Ge0rG
https://upload.yax.im/upload/zbeZLsvL8FuA2rNA/Screenshot_20181129-141906_FBReader.jpg
-
Zash
Link Mauve: Except I've managed to produce unbalanced tags and my eink thing still showed it (horribly messed up, but still)
-
Ge0rG
it even has nifty titles
-
Zash
Pretty
-
Ge0rG
(btw, does the OOB in my screenshot work for Conversations?)
-
daniel
oh indeed it works reasonably well
-
Zash
daniel: You might even be able to just dump the html files onto the device and have it work
-
Ge0rG
my ebook reader has a horrible html reader (it's using continuous scrolling on e-paper)
-
Zash
ew
-
daniel
yeah at least my calibre which i need anyway. will take html files directly
-
Ge0rG
but it's the only way to render the 110GB+ of offline wikipedias I have
-
daniel
https://share.gultsch.de/daniel/RyGBwEl1OMN8SAin/rJG-_bTCTo-zf9nSzcInLA.jpg
-
daniel
Ge0rG: the oob in your Screenshot doesn't work at all
-
daniel
if you give me the stanza i can take a look at it
-
Ge0rG
<message from="xsf@muc.xmpp.org/Ge0rG" id="0wTCJ-8706" type="groupchat" to="georg@yax.im/poezio-IS8H"><body>https://upload.yax.im/upload/zbeZLsvL8FuA2rNA/Screenshot_20181129-141906_FBReader.jpg</body><x xmlns="jabber❌oob" url="https://upload.yax.im/upload/zbeZLsvL8FuA2rNA/Screenshot_20181129-141906_FBReader.jpg" /></message>
-
Ge0rG
just figured out it's @url instead of <url>
-
Ge0rG
I messed up the Oob.java when porting from smack3 to smack4
-
Ge0rG
what I don't understand is why it can interpret the wrong tag correctly
-
Zash
https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/yJNDBPRli6rRIacj/Z0dyALtQTdOr1y3wm66s_w.jpg
-
daniel
Zash: is this straight conversion or via your markdown thing?
-
Zash
Ge0rG, daniel: How does it handle tables and examples?
-
Zash
daniel: via the markdown thing
-
Ge0rG
Zash: dunno
-
Zash
.
-
Zash
L A G
-
dwd
Does anyone happen to know if anyone's reverse-engineered WhatsApp recently?
-
daniel
dwd: to you have reason to believe they changed it?
-
dwd
No... I suppose "recently" doesn't really matter.
-
daniel
Well the so called funxmpp is decently documented as far as I know
-
daniel
And WhatsApp transports / pidgin plugins used to work okish
-
Link Mauve
Aren’t they using the web API instead of talking the protocol itself?
-
Link Mauve
The web API which connects to your phone.
-
Link Mauve
Which is AFAIK how they implement multi-resources.
-
Zash
Including multi-resource E2EE?
-
Link Mauve
AFAIK it’s decrypted on your phone, then sent to your browser somehow.
-
Kev
E2SITME
-
Kev
End to Somewhere In The Middle Encryption :)
-
daniel
Link Mauve: I think there are/were transports that would talk directly to wa
-
Link Mauve
I may be wrong then.
-
daniel
Without the requirement to run it on your phone
-
Link Mauve
The requirement was that your phone had to be on.
-
MattJ
They are pretty aggressive at banning anyone who uses unofficial clients afaik
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
-
ralphm
Who do we have?
-
ralphm
Seve, nyco, MattJ, Guus
-
Seve
Seve is here :)
-
MattJ
o/
-
nyco
hey
-
ralphm
Guus sent regrets
-
ralphm
So we can start
-
ralphm
My first point would be electing our Chair
-
dwd
I, too, am here. Not entirely sure if I am Council Chair, technically, at the moment though. :-)
-
ralphm
Thank you dwd
-
Guus
did I sent regrets?
-
Guus
I'm pretty sure I did not 🙂
-
ralphm
oh, hah, I messed up
-
dwd
Guus, If so, do you regret it now?
-
ralphm
It was a mail from June :-D
-
Guus
Thank you for promptly processing my mail 🙂
-
ralphm
Full house. Great
-
ralphm
Guus: I still have unreads from 2016
-
ralphm
1. Election of the Chair of the Board
-
nyco
technically, it is thus not wrong, Guus sent regrets, just not for this meeting
-
ralphm
For this we need nominations and then votes
-
ralphm
:crickets:
-
dwd
I'm assuming self-nominations are fine, if people want to volunteer?
-
ralphm
I'd be happy to continue.
-
MattJ
Well, without an idea of who wants to be nominated, it's a bit awkward :)
-
MattJ
I'd be happy for ralphm to continue
-
Guus
+1
-
Seve
Me as well, +1 for ralphm :) And also thanks for volunteering
-
nyco
+1
-
ralphm
Thank you!
-
dwd
Well, this is a bit boring. :-)
-
ralphm
dwd: you can always cast an invalid vote
-
dwd
-1! I VETO!!!
-
Guus
chair, I think an invalid vote was just cast.
-
ralphm
Let the records show that the Board has elected Ralph Meijer as Chair of the Board for the 2018/2019 term.
-
ralphm
Speaking of which:
-
ralphm
2. Minutes
-
MattJ
Heh
-
Guus
I do nominate dwd, since we're in the process of nominating people anyways... 🙂
-
ralphm
Last term, we had a hard time getting minutes consistently. I'd like to ask for a volunteer to create minutes for all meetings.
-
ralphm
Guus: I second that
-
nyco
I raise this: it would be nice to edit collaboratively and in real-time our notes while we have the meeting thus at the end, it is just a matter of finalising (typo, punctuation, etc) and send to ML
-
nyco
it works if not only one person types
-
nyco
it is hareder when 5 people type✎ -
nyco
it is harder when 5 people type ✏
-
MattJ
I wouldn't be opposed to that
-
dwd
I'm doubtful I can reliably do minutes, but I can volunteer from time to time.
-
ralphm
I'd prefer it not be a Director
-
Guus
nyco, I don't quite like that. To many open tabs as it is, for my taste.
-
Guus
I'll not oppose, but am unlikely to contribute during the meeting.
-
nyco
then don't open tabe, just windows sitting side by side✎ -
dwd
I can knock some out for this meeting, though, and see how it goes.
-
nyco
then don't open tabs, just windows sitting side by side ✏
-
ralphm
dwd: thank you
-
Seve
Is there something wrong on going through the history and write the minutes after that? Sounds easier to me.
-
ralphm
From what I understand, this is harder than following along in real time, oddly.
-
dwd
Seve, It is possible, but personally I find it much harder - it's useful to be able to ask clarifying quesitons during the meeting.
-
nyco
Seve then one person has to re-process the whole meeting, it is quite boring, consumes time
-
ralphm
Anyway, let's take up dwd's offer and see how that works out.
-
Guus
wfm
-
Seve
Thanks dwd :)
-
nyco
thx @dwd
-
ralphm
3. Elections of Secretary, Treasurer, Executive Director
-
ralphm
For the Secretary and Treasurer, I'd like to ask the current Officers if they'd like to continue in their role.
-
ralphm
I will send out e-mails for that.
-
Guus
+1
-
MattJ
+1, thanks ralphm
-
nyco
+1
-
Seve
+1
-
nyco
and ED?
-
MattJ
nyco, ssshhh
-
ralphm
For Executive Director, the previous Board has had some on and off discussions on this. Guus and I have been planning to talk to Peter Saint-Andre to see what we could do here, since he resigned from this office over a year ago.
-
MattJ
ralphm, did he actually resign? or say he intended to?
-
Guus
MattJ, we'll need handle him leaving regardless.
-
Guus
Ralph, let's pick two or three dates for Peter to agree with
-
ralphm
Peter resigned on 8 March 2017, in an e-mail to the Board.
-
ralphm
I'm not sure if there's an effective date, explicitly, but we assumed the end of the Board term of 2016/2017.
-
Guus
(date for our meeting, I ment)
-
ralphm
Guus: sure
-
ralphm
4. AOB
-
ralphm
?
-
Guus
Seve, can you write a short bio please?
-
Guus
we'll need to replace Martin's on the website
-
ralphm
Guus: good point
-
nyco
no OB for me
-
Seve
Guus, right
-
nyco
oh wait, yes
-
nyco
what time and date fro each meeting?✎ -
nyco
frequency
-
nyco
what time and date for each meeting? ✏
-
ralphm
I suggest keeping the weekly rhythm and time.
-
nyco
+1
-
ralphm
If anyone is ok with this timeslot.
-
ralphm
everyone even
-
Guus
works for me, but Seve is new here 🙂
-
Seve
It is ok for me, thanks Guus :)
-
Guus
great
-
ralphm
MattJ, too?
-
MattJ
Yep, it's fine for me
-
ralphm
Splendid.
-
ralphm
6. Date of Next ^
-
ralphm
7. Close
-
ralphm
Thank you all. I look forward to working with you this term.
-
nyco
thx all
-
Seve
Me too, thank you very much!
-
MattJ
Thanks, and welcome again Seve, glad to have you aboard :)
-
jonas’
pun intended?
-
ralphm
Indeed!
-
Guus
Ralph: for our meeting with Peter, every Monday and Friday evening > 7 our time, is fine with me, with the exception of December 10th.
-
jonas’
:)
-
nyco
welcome on "board", Seve! 😉
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
jonas’
Guus, what about december 24th?
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
-
ralphm
Guus: yeah, I think that works for me too
-
Guus
jonas', I intend to spend all of the holidays sitting idle in a virtual XSF board meeting room, yes.
-
Seve
Thank you everybody :D! Happy to be part of the board!
-
jonas’
Guus, oh, okay :)
-
Guus
ralphm, could you ask Peter if that works for him?
-
Guus
Good to have you, Seve!
- Guus wanders out
-
ralphm
Guus: just sent out the e-mail
-
ralphm
Seve can you verify you got it?
-
ralphm
I'm sure Kev or intosi can you help you out in case of trouble.
-
Seve
I didn't, something I need to figure out with iteam, yes
-
MattJ
Sorry, I'd look but I don't have access to the mail server
-
daniel
re: epub - those tables in MIX unsurprisingly don’t render very well
-
daniel
just not enough horizontal screen
-
daniel
but everything else is ok
-
Guus
ralphm could you also give Seve access to the Trello board?
-
Neustradamus
Seve: https://github.com/stpeter/jabberdotorg/issues/5 + previous ^^
-
Guus
nyco maybe you want to update your bio too
-
Guus
it still has you listed Mongoose Product Owner, you're no longer, are you?
-
Neustradamus
It is possible to see for an update of https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/infrastructure-team? - There is not : Data backups (provided by ASET at Penn State University) - Digital certificates is now Let's Encrypt - Source control (Subversion and various products donated by Atlassian) <-- dead since a long time: tracker.xmpp.org... and now github - Web server and associated software (lighttpd, MySQL, WordPress, MediaWiki) <-- WordPress has been removed... Thanks in advance.
-
Guus
Neustradamus, please provide a pull request
-
daniel
btw Link Mauve I've looked into sending out a xhtml-im render of of message styling in addition to the message styling itself at least for plain text messages. not that i’m a huge fan but I thought it doesn’t hurt right. but it doesn’t do strike through text
-
daniel
any solution for that?
-
Link Mauve
daniel, hmm, IIRC there is support for text-decoration.
-
Link Mauve
Someone also suggested adding support for <del/> in the recommended profile.
-
daniel
i would prefer to avoid having to generate css
-
jonas’
and I would prefer to avoid having to process CSS
-
jonas’
I think ``<del/>`` would be an okay choice
-
daniel
also it seems there is font-weight and <strong>
-
Link Mauve
You could consider <span style="text-decoration: line-through"/> as a single element maybe?
-
daniel
it feels like xhtml-im is a very weird mix of styling and context information
-
SamWhited
We could also get rid of strike through in styling; I just added it because Whatsapp or something had it, but I don't see it as necessary.
-
Link Mauve
SamWhited, there is no reason for that, I’m sure some people now rely on it.
-
daniel
what is the recommended approach for rendering <strong style="font-weight: normal;">
-
jonas’
daniel, "normal"
-
daniel
will it look differnt depending on what client you use it with?
-
jonas’
@style trumps element style
-
ralphm
Slack has strike through.
-
jonas’
by normal XHTML/CSS rules
-
daniel
since css is not mandetory to implement
-
jonas’
then it’ll render differently in each client :)
-
Link Mauve
Well, @style is marked REQUIRED in the recommended attributes.
-
Link Mauve
The rest, NOT RECOMMENDED.
-
daniel
So I have to implemt css?
-
Link Mauve
Uh, table 8 says that <strong/> and <em/> don’t take @style or any other attribute.
-
daniel
i feel like last time we talked about it someone said i don’t have to implement css
-
Link Mauve
This would contradict jonas’.
-
ralphm
Well, first of all, while implementing the style attribute is REQUIRED, the styles to support are RECOMMENDED. I suggest that supporting no styles is still compliant.
-
ralphm
(there's also prose in 7.6 to suggest this)
-
ralphm
Further, the entire specification is NOT RECOMMENDED to implement given its deprecation.
-
daniel
Yeah I don't know. I was just trying to make message styling work for clients that don't like message styling
-
Zash
ralphm: Can it be un-deprecated?
-
ralphm
There's no defined process for that
-
Zash
The underlying problem was not solved by deprecating beacuse it resides in the availability of rendering engines with way too much attack surface.
-
Zash
And the lack of sufficiently advanced rendering engines that aren't also javascript and css engines
-
Zash
And message styling looks too much like Markdown that people just throw it at their markdown parsers which happily pass raw HTML right through and we're back at square one.
-
Yagiza
I can easily implement XEP-394 instead of XHTML-IM in my client once it will be usable. The idea of XEP-0394 is really good. But current implementation is so awful, I don want even try to implement right now.
-
daniel
well message styling is simple enough that people can at least attempt to write their own parsers
-
Link Mauve
Zash, both 0393 and Markdown are fine as input formats, even with HTML stuff.
-
Zash
The problem isn't the input format, the problem is doing anything and throwing it into a full blown HTML+CSS+JS environment
-
jonas’
ralphm, speaking of process, reminding board about https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/719
-
Link Mauve
Zash, indeed, but that’ll happen no matter the wire format.
-
rion
sometimes on 1st April I send a css injection to a muc which turns chatlog up side down. I don't want to fix this "bug" because it's funny =))
-
ralphm
That was approved last week!
-
Link Mauve
rion, :D
-
Zash
rion: Can't you do that with some magic Unicode marker too? :)
-
jonas’
ralphm, no minutes from last week :(
-
Zash
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rtl.png
-
ralphm
Hmm
-
rion
Zash: I think it's possible with anything. html5 is cool =)
-
jonas’
ralphm, hm, I don’t think it passed, really
-
jonas’
the last thing I saw from Guus about that during the meeting was more a "I wanna ask Peter first"
-
ralphm
You are right. I'll pick it up for next week
-
Zash
Why does "cla-assistant" need write access to my everythings?
-
Zash
aaaaaaaaand that's enough web for today
-
daniel
Mhhh now I need a thing to export the notes I made on my ebook reader to the mailing list
-
pep.
https://2019.copyleftconf.org/ right after fosdem if people are interested
-
Zash
who where
-
pep.
Brussels
-
pep.
I'd like to go, I'll start planning in a few days
-
edhelas
https://twitter.com/musalbas/status/1068179464197156864