XSF Discussion - 2018-12-20

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  27. moparisthebest https://burtrum.org/up/1c2f67f1-92c3-4340-8c77-a04bc8ccf85c/bHXnBWvGS-mnfKxuKEngdg.gif
  28. moparisthebest This must be the logo
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  151. Guus what the...
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  153. Guus I'm gone _one day_ and I see logo's in flaming letters?
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  160. pep. moparisthebest: you get my vote
  161. pep. Run for presidency
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  163. jonas’ executive director?
  164. edhelas not enough lasers and metallic letters to me
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  193. Guus lasers only go on sharks (and the occasional ill-tempered bass), not logos
  194. jonas’ Guus, pft, raptors!
  195. jonas’ laserraptors!
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  197. Guus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw
  198. Ge0rG I want a president riding on a bear.
  199. jonas’ a laserraptor!
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  201. Guus Ge0rG will you settle for an action figure? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Putin-Riding-Bear-Action-Figure/dp/B00X61MVE8
  202. Ge0rG Guus: sure thing, even with the printing on the package being beyond broken
  203. Ge0rG also just realized how much this is also a pun on the strawman president Putin had between his presidencies
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  264. Guus Although I sent apologies for missing the upcoming board meeting, I unexpectedly managed to make it in time.
  265. Seve Great
  266. Guus ("woohoo!" "yeah!")
  267. Guus thanks Seve 🙂
  268. nyco hey
  269. MattJ :)
  270. Guus pods & pokes at ralphm
  271. ralphm bangs gavel
  272. Guus prrrods...nevermind
  273. ralphm set the topic to XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  274. ralphm 0. Welcome
  275. ralphm It seems we have everyone.
  276. ralphm Dave raised a point about XEP-0412, so that's on the agenda.
  277. Seve is here
  278. nyco it's even in Trello board
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  280. Guus I have nothing else for the agenda
  281. MattJ Me neither
  282. nyco prios?
  283. nyco the former board handed it over
  284. ralphm I don't think they did.
  285. ralphm But I see you added it as a card, so it is on the agenda
  286. MattJ Useless bunch
  287. ralphm 1. Note taker
  288. ralphm dwd around?
  289. Wiktor has left
  290. ralphm Guess not.
  291. ralphm Continuing as we have a bunch of items.
  292. ralphm 2. XEP-0412, Compliance Suites 2019
  293. ralphm I agree with Guus' comments on the board list: let's create a place holder for this XEP until such time it is clear what the Council decides.
  294. ralphm Probably similar to what was done for XEP-0028.
  295. Guus As I've replied on the board list (which is not publicly accessible, so let me repeat: I'm against keeping a XEP that was prematurely published around.
  296. nyco Guus's words make sense, indeed
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  298. MattJ wfm
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  300. ralphm jonas’: can you take care of this?
  301. Guus for the record: My main argument is that third parties might take the fact that it is published as a reason to start work based on it. As long as there's a chance that the XEP will be revoked/unpublished, we should take steps to avoid people from spending resources on something that we're not sure of yet.
  302. nyco the probability that it happens again is non-zero so let's revert like code can be in a repo
  303. Guus Second, I don't like how this can be perceived as putting pressure on council members that yet need to vote. A veto now will cause more issues (having to retract the XEP), which takes away from the freedom of choice of these council members. I'm sure that Kev can hold its own, but lets not create a precedent here. We can prevent this by rolling back before the remaining council members cast their vote.
  304. Guus ralphm I don't think jonas’ has access to that mailing list
  305. Guus so he would not have seen my response.
  306. Guus or suggestion to fix
  307. nyco the pressure might be already felt, by mistake of course
  308. ralphm nyco: the problem is that the number was given out, and if there's going to be any XEP for this, it should be the one for compliance suites, or a tombstone.
  309. ralphm Guus: I just wrote the fix above: like XEP-0028
  310. nyco that's only a technical workaround
  311. Guus I'm not sure what happened with XEP-0028, ralphm
  312. ralphm I'm happy to link it here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0028.html
  313. Guus ah, ok, that never got replaced/restored, but is retracted 🙂
  314. ralphm I'm not sure if it should be removed from source control, though. Just adding a new commit with a notice like this should suffice.
  315. Guus yeah, something similar would work.
  316. nyco XEP-0028: No Such XEP XEP-0412: No More Such XEP XEP-0412: Like XEP-0028
  317. ralphm I'm sure the Editor Team can resolve this.
  318. nyco yep, not our duty
  319. Guus The Editor Team being just jonas’ nowadays?
  320. ralphm nyco: instructing them what to do in this case is, so we just did.
  321. ralphm Guus: no, but he added this particular commit
  322. Guus who else is editor? Sam's membership expired.
  323. Guus https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/editor-team <-- ah, a bunch
  324. ralphm I don't think think so, work teams don't have an expiry, I think.
  325. nyco there is a card "Call for editors" in our Trello board
  326. Guus can non-members be part of a work team?
  327. Seve When taking back the CommTeam, only members were accepted
  328. ralphm Guus: no
  329. ralphm “Participation in Teams shall be limited to elected Members of the Corporation.”
  330. Guus So, Sam's out, to my disappointment.
  331. ralphm Ah.
  332. ralphm Good point
  333. ralphm moving on
  334. ralphm 3. Compliance Suites (again)
  335. ralphm This point is about the discussion we had last week, regarding badges
  336. ralphm Dave suggested, on list, something that was also mention in the meeting:
  337. ralphm “So I suggest we run an Experiment. This experiment would have some badges that developers can claim on their projects, fully self-certified (ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite). The Badges themselves - the images used - would remain copyright XSF - I don't think we need the full weight of trademark law. We agree to revisit the scheme in 6 months and assess how it's being used.”
  338. ralphm I'd like to put this up for a vote.
  339. MattJ wfm
  340. ralphm +1
  341. MattJ +1
  342. nyco yep, plus one
  343. nyco try and iterate, I like that
  344. Guus "ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite" <-- that does not relate to the XEP, but instead to an automated verification tool, right?
  345. ralphm yes
  346. nyco we'll see what we make of it
  347. Guus +1
  348. nyco given the experience and feedback
  349. ralphm Seve?
  350. Seve Not sure yet, honestly, it is a bit abstract, but I like to try and iterate as nyco said
  351. ralphm is that a +0?
  352. Seve I'm +0
  353. ralphm Ok
  354. Seve Yes, thanks ralphm
  355. nyco or -0 ?
  356. ralphm Motion carries.
  357. Guus I've added a trello card on a backburner list, for us to remember to evaluate this in +6M
  358. ralphm I'll discuss with dwd how to move forward to actually have images that represent a badge.
  359. ralphm Guus: thanks
  360. ralphm 4. Call for Editors
  361. Guus do we need to facilitate the badges being created?
  362. nyco I have a graphic designer who may help us
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  364. ralphm if someone volunteers to create such badges, that's be great
  365. ralphm 'd
  366. Guus nyco if he'd be interested, that would be great
  367. Guus could you ping him?
  368. nyco she
  369. Guus her
  370. nyco I'm on it
  371. ralphm Cool
  372. Guus thanks
  373. ralphm Now, onto #4
  374. ralphm So this was raised by Dave on list
  375. ralphm But I suggested that Council should issue this call, as they actually appoint candidates.
  376. Guus (I didn't see Dave's mail)
  377. ralphm or really, they select them and we appoint
  378. Guus Our website lists 6 editors, one of which is Sam. We furher have Kev, PSA, Jonas', Flow and JCBrand
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  380. ralphm Mail from 2018-12-12, included this:
  381. ralphm “> > 1) XSF Editor - this team needs more members. Could you put out a call? (I meant to ask last week, actually). Given your charter, with the XMPP Council selecting volunteers and presenting them to the Board for approval, I believe it would be proper for you to put out the call to our membership. ”
  382. ralphm (the latter is my reply)
  383. ralphm Dave agreed and would.
  384. Guus I'm happy for either to issue that call.
  385. ralphm So I think this item is handled.
  386. ralphm 5. GSoC
  387. Guus I sent a request for help to the mailing list, but did not get any response
  388. ralphm We put out a request for an admin. Have we gotten candidates yet?
  389. ralphm ok
  390. ralphm Keeping this one on.
  391. ralphm Let's nudge in the new year
  392. Guus let's not keep it to long though
  393. Guus strive to decide one way or the other mid january?
  394. ralphm Guus: agreed
  395. nyco yep
  396. ralphm 6. Summit / FOSDEM
  397. ralphm I don't have anything to report.
  398. Guus nor me.
  399. nyco me neither
  400. ralphm 7. Meeting with Peter
  401. nyco ah
  402. ralphm Still pending.
  403. nyco 😢
  404. ralphm 8. Board Priorities
  405. ralphm nyco says this was carried over.
  406. nyco so this is a subject that the former board has passed on, like a hot potatoe do we want to commit to prios? or we drop it? (or any other option?)
  407. Guus given the ineffectiveness of last board on this (them slackers!), I wonder if this has any practical use.
  408. nyco I have the feeling that the board resolves issues as they arrive we may bot have common, shared, larger goals
  409. MattJ I think in general the board's role here is to enable most of these things to happen
  410. MattJ We established SCAM for meetups, for example, and I think that's going well
  411. ralphm nods
  412. MattJ The main thing blocking many other priorities is funding
  413. Guus Sure, we need to do stuff (c)(r), but do we need a defined list of priorities for that to happen?
  414. MattJ which is something we are focusing on
  415. nyco MattJ and time
  416. MattJ so I don't have any problems with the board's current tasks
  417. MattJ i.e. setting a priority is fine, but it has to translate to action items. What are those?
  418. MattJ This was my problem with all the previous discussions about priorities
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  420. nyco correct: prios > actions do we want to support that train of thoughts?
  421. lumi has joined
  422. MattJ Sure
  423. ralphm So we continue as we have.
  424. ralphm wfm
  425. MattJ My #1 priority is fixing our funding problems
  426. ralphm Agreed
  427. nyco how? what actions have (expected) impact?
  428. nyco I guess fixing the following up with sponsors would be a great start, and a big effort
  429. nyco XSF sponsorship AND Summit's
  430. MattJ We have totally failed at dealing with our sponsors for the past few years (at least). ralphm and Guus are working towards fixing that (with help from stpeter)
  431. ralphm Well, we need to clean up our list of sponsors, assess our current financial situation with Peter, and then come up with an idea of what we want to do. E.g. the Summit always costs us money, and if we want to do more, we would need money.
  432. MattJ With funds coming in, we'll be able to better fund meetups and such, which was the main priority we discussed after the survey results were processed
  433. ralphm Right, I'm trying to schedule a meeting before end-of-year
  434. nyco let's not expect fixing sponsorship will fix lots of pain points
  435. nyco let's not expect fixing sponsorship will resolve lots of pain points
  436. Guus it's a place to start.
  437. nyco ok then
  438. nyco I generally agree
  439. ralphm Sponsorship is our only source of money, so yeah, it does
  440. ralphm The other resource is people, and that's a tough one to resolve in general.
  441. ralphm 9. AOB?
  442. ralphm ?
  443. nyco none from me
  444. MattJ None here
  445. ralphm 10. Date of Next
  446. ralphm +1W, provisionally
  447. nyco ok
  448. ralphm I think I can attend
  449. Guus with the holidays, all bets are off for me
  450. Guus (As in, I'll have to get permission from my wife 😉 )
  451. Seve I should be able to attend as well
  452. ralphm 11. Close
  453. ralphm Thanks all!
  454. ralphm bangs gavel
  455. nyco thx all! 😉
  456. Seve Thank you guys
  457. ralphm set the topic to XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  458. Guus happy holidays!
  459. MattJ Thanks
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  466. Ge0rG No news about the Trademark license I asked Board about?
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  483. jonas’ thanks for the ruling, board, will take care of it immediately
  484. jonas’ can someone confirm though that I’m reading the backlog correctly in the sense that board prefers the XEP to be un-published?
  485. Link Mauve Yes.
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  493. ralphm jonas’: in such a way that there's a place holder, like with XEP-0028. Feel free to craft a reasonable message.
  494. jonas’ did both
  495. jonas’ build is in progress
  496. ralphm Yay
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  510. jonas’ ralphm, FYI https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0412.html
  511. jonas’ there’s no state which has a more fitting "red text below the metadata" unfortunately
  512. jonas’ (and that’s generated by the templating stuff)
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  520. ralphm I think it is fine like this. Thanks!
  521. jonas’ you’re welcome I guess? :)
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  546. Ge0rG So glad we have a process for that. It would have been a horrible oversight if we just waited for the last council member to vote.
  547. Ge0rG If only somebody had remembered that process after XEP-0403...
  548. jonas’ hm?
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  554. pep. To have it as 404
  555. edhelas pep. :p
  556. pep. jonas’, I don't guarantee I have time to help with editing as an everyday^H^H^H week thing, but is there anything that I can help automate maybe?
  557. pep. doesn't know anything about editors' work
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  568. jonas’ pep., most stuff which can be automated is already
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  570. jonas’ the only thing I’m missing is something which hooks on the finished docker builds and tells me that they’re done, so that I can send the emails
  571. jonas’ (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and I we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)
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  574. jonas’ (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)
  575. jonas’ soo… if you’re inclined to make a thing which receives the docker-build-has-finished webhook and sends me a message, that’d be good
  576. jonas’ via jabber, preferably
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  578. jonas’ because when it comes via jabber, i can easily hook my buildbots into doing the email sending once I’m confident that the tooling will do the right thing
  579. Link Mauve PubSub!
  580. jonas’ Link Mauve, also good
  581. jonas’ the buildbots are based on pubsub already ... buuuut I’d have to modify them to be able to subscribe to more than one node
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