XSF Discussion - 2018-12-20

  1. moparisthebest


  2. moparisthebest

    This must be the logo

  3. Guus

    what the...

  4. Guus

    I'm gone _one day_ and I see logo's in flaming letters?

  5. pep.

    moparisthebest: you get my vote

  6. pep.

    Run for presidency

  7. jonas’

    executive director?

  8. edhelas

    not enough lasers and metallic letters to me

  9. Guus

    lasers only go on sharks (and the occasional ill-tempered bass), not logos

  10. jonas’

    Guus, pft, raptors!

  11. jonas’


  12. Guus


  13. Ge0rG

    I want a president riding on a bear.

  14. jonas’

    a laserraptor!

  15. Guus

    Ge0rG will you settle for an action figure? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Putin-Riding-Bear-Action-Figure/dp/B00X61MVE8

  16. Ge0rG

    Guus: sure thing, even with the printing on the package being beyond broken

  17. Ge0rG also just realized how much this is also a pun on the strawman president Putin had between his presidencies

  18. Guus

    Although I sent apologies for missing the upcoming board meeting, I unexpectedly managed to make it in time.

  19. Seve


  20. Guus

    ("woohoo!" "yeah!")

  21. Guus

    thanks Seve 🙂

  22. nyco


  23. MattJ


  24. Guus pods & pokes at ralphm

  25. ralphm bangs gavel

  26. Guus


  27. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  28. ralphm

    0. Welcome

  29. ralphm

    It seems we have everyone.

  30. ralphm

    Dave raised a point about XEP-0412, so that's on the agenda.

  31. Seve is here

  32. nyco

    it's even in Trello board

  33. Guus

    I have nothing else for the agenda

  34. MattJ

    Me neither

  35. nyco


  36. nyco

    the former board handed it over

  37. ralphm

    I don't think they did.

  38. ralphm

    But I see you added it as a card, so it is on the agenda

  39. MattJ

    Useless bunch

  40. ralphm

    1. Note taker

  41. ralphm

    dwd around?

  42. ralphm

    Guess not.

  43. ralphm

    Continuing as we have a bunch of items.

  44. ralphm

    2. XEP-0412, Compliance Suites 2019

  45. ralphm

    I agree with Guus' comments on the board list: let's create a place holder for this XEP until such time it is clear what the Council decides.

  46. ralphm

    Probably similar to what was done for XEP-0028.

  47. Guus

    As I've replied on the board list (which is not publicly accessible, so let me repeat: I'm against keeping a XEP that was prematurely published around.

  48. nyco

    Guus's words make sense, indeed

  49. MattJ


  50. ralphm

    jonas’: can you take care of this?

  51. Guus

    for the record: My main argument is that third parties might take the fact that it is published as a reason to start work based on it. As long as there's a chance that the XEP will be revoked/unpublished, we should take steps to avoid people from spending resources on something that we're not sure of yet.

  52. nyco

    the probability that it happens again is non-zero so let's revert like code can be in a repo

  53. Guus

    Second, I don't like how this can be perceived as putting pressure on council members that yet need to vote. A veto now will cause more issues (having to retract the XEP), which takes away from the freedom of choice of these council members. I'm sure that Kev can hold its own, but lets not create a precedent here. We can prevent this by rolling back before the remaining council members cast their vote.

  54. Guus

    ralphm I don't think jonas’ has access to that mailing list

  55. Guus

    so he would not have seen my response.

  56. Guus

    or suggestion to fix

  57. nyco

    the pressure might be already felt, by mistake of course

  58. ralphm

    nyco: the problem is that the number was given out, and if there's going to be any XEP for this, it should be the one for compliance suites, or a tombstone.

  59. ralphm

    Guus: I just wrote the fix above: like XEP-0028

  60. nyco

    that's only a technical workaround

  61. Guus

    I'm not sure what happened with XEP-0028, ralphm

  62. ralphm

    I'm happy to link it here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0028.html

  63. Guus

    ah, ok, that never got replaced/restored, but is retracted 🙂

  64. ralphm

    I'm not sure if it should be removed from source control, though. Just adding a new commit with a notice like this should suffice.

  65. Guus

    yeah, something similar would work.

  66. nyco

    XEP-0028: No Such XEP XEP-0412: No More Such XEP XEP-0412: Like XEP-0028

  67. ralphm

    I'm sure the Editor Team can resolve this.

  68. nyco

    yep, not our duty

  69. Guus

    The Editor Team being just jonas’ nowadays?

  70. ralphm

    nyco: instructing them what to do in this case is, so we just did.

  71. ralphm

    Guus: no, but he added this particular commit

  72. Guus

    who else is editor? Sam's membership expired.

  73. Guus

    https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/editor-team <-- ah, a bunch

  74. ralphm

    I don't think think so, work teams don't have an expiry, I think.

  75. nyco

    there is a card "Call for editors" in our Trello board

  76. Guus

    can non-members be part of a work team?

  77. Seve

    When taking back the CommTeam, only members were accepted

  78. ralphm

    Guus: no

  79. ralphm

    “Participation in Teams shall be limited to elected Members of the Corporation.”

  80. Guus

    So, Sam's out, to my disappointment.

  81. ralphm


  82. ralphm

    Good point

  83. ralphm

    moving on

  84. ralphm

    3. Compliance Suites (again)

  85. ralphm

    This point is about the discussion we had last week, regarding badges

  86. ralphm

    Dave suggested, on list, something that was also mention in the meeting:

  87. ralphm

    “So I suggest we run an Experiment. This experiment would have some badges that developers can claim on their projects, fully self-certified (ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite). The Badges themselves - the images used - would remain copyright XSF - I don't think we need the full weight of trademark law. We agree to revisit the scheme in 6 months and assess how it's being used.”

  88. ralphm

    I'd like to put this up for a vote.

  89. MattJ


  90. ralphm


  91. MattJ


  92. nyco

    yep, plus one

  93. nyco

    try and iterate, I like that

  94. Guus

    "ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite" <-- that does not relate to the XEP, but instead to an automated verification tool, right?

  95. ralphm


  96. nyco

    we'll see what we make of it

  97. Guus


  98. nyco

    given the experience and feedback

  99. ralphm


  100. Seve

    Not sure yet, honestly, it is a bit abstract, but I like to try and iterate as nyco said

  101. ralphm

    is that a +0?

  102. Seve

    I'm +0

  103. ralphm


  104. Seve

    Yes, thanks ralphm

  105. nyco

    or -0 ?

  106. ralphm

    Motion carries.

  107. Guus

    I've added a trello card on a backburner list, for us to remember to evaluate this in +6M

  108. ralphm

    I'll discuss with dwd how to move forward to actually have images that represent a badge.

  109. ralphm

    Guus: thanks

  110. ralphm

    4. Call for Editors

  111. Guus

    do we need to facilitate the badges being created?

  112. nyco

    I have a graphic designer who may help us

  113. ralphm

    if someone volunteers to create such badges, that's be great

  114. ralphm


  115. Guus

    nyco if he'd be interested, that would be great

  116. Guus

    could you ping him?

  117. nyco


  118. Guus


  119. nyco

    I'm on it

  120. ralphm


  121. Guus


  122. ralphm

    Now, onto #4

  123. ralphm

    So this was raised by Dave on list

  124. ralphm

    But I suggested that Council should issue this call, as they actually appoint candidates.

  125. Guus

    (I didn't see Dave's mail)

  126. ralphm

    or really, they select them and we appoint

  127. Guus

    Our website lists 6 editors, one of which is Sam. We furher have Kev, PSA, Jonas', Flow and JCBrand

  128. ralphm

    Mail from 2018-12-12, included this:

  129. ralphm

    “> > 1) XSF Editor - this team needs more members. Could you put out a call? (I meant to ask last week, actually). Given your charter, with the XMPP Council selecting volunteers and presenting them to the Board for approval, I believe it would be proper for you to put out the call to our membership. ”

  130. ralphm

    (the latter is my reply)

  131. ralphm

    Dave agreed and would.

  132. Guus

    I'm happy for either to issue that call.

  133. ralphm

    So I think this item is handled.

  134. ralphm

    5. GSoC

  135. Guus

    I sent a request for help to the mailing list, but did not get any response

  136. ralphm

    We put out a request for an admin. Have we gotten candidates yet?

  137. ralphm


  138. ralphm

    Keeping this one on.

  139. ralphm

    Let's nudge in the new year

  140. Guus

    let's not keep it to long though

  141. Guus

    strive to decide one way or the other mid january?

  142. ralphm

    Guus: agreed

  143. nyco


  144. ralphm

    6. Summit / FOSDEM

  145. ralphm

    I don't have anything to report.

  146. Guus

    nor me.

  147. nyco

    me neither

  148. ralphm

    7. Meeting with Peter

  149. nyco


  150. ralphm

    Still pending.

  151. nyco


  152. ralphm

    8. Board Priorities

  153. ralphm

    nyco says this was carried over.

  154. nyco

    so this is a subject that the former board has passed on, like a hot potatoe do we want to commit to prios? or we drop it? (or any other option?)

  155. Guus

    given the ineffectiveness of last board on this (them slackers!), I wonder if this has any practical use.

  156. nyco

    I have the feeling that the board resolves issues as they arrive we may bot have common, shared, larger goals

  157. MattJ

    I think in general the board's role here is to enable most of these things to happen

  158. MattJ

    We established SCAM for meetups, for example, and I think that's going well

  159. ralphm nods

  160. MattJ

    The main thing blocking many other priorities is funding

  161. Guus

    Sure, we need to do stuff (c)(r), but do we need a defined list of priorities for that to happen?

  162. MattJ

    which is something we are focusing on

  163. nyco

    MattJ and time

  164. MattJ

    so I don't have any problems with the board's current tasks

  165. MattJ

    i.e. setting a priority is fine, but it has to translate to action items. What are those?

  166. MattJ

    This was my problem with all the previous discussions about priorities

  167. nyco

    correct: prios > actions do we want to support that train of thoughts?

  168. MattJ


  169. ralphm

    So we continue as we have.

  170. ralphm


  171. MattJ

    My #1 priority is fixing our funding problems

  172. ralphm


  173. nyco

    how? what actions have (expected) impact?

  174. nyco

    I guess fixing the following up with sponsors would be a great start, and a big effort

  175. nyco

    XSF sponsorship AND Summit's

  176. MattJ

    We have totally failed at dealing with our sponsors for the past few years (at least). ralphm and Guus are working towards fixing that (with help from stpeter)

  177. ralphm

    Well, we need to clean up our list of sponsors, assess our current financial situation with Peter, and then come up with an idea of what we want to do. E.g. the Summit always costs us money, and if we want to do more, we would need money.

  178. MattJ

    With funds coming in, we'll be able to better fund meetups and such, which was the main priority we discussed after the survey results were processed

  179. ralphm

    Right, I'm trying to schedule a meeting before end-of-year

  180. nyco

    let's not expect fixing sponsorship will fix lots of pain points

  181. nyco

    let's not expect fixing sponsorship will resolve lots of pain points

  182. Guus

    it's a place to start.

  183. nyco

    ok then

  184. nyco

    I generally agree

  185. ralphm

    Sponsorship is our only source of money, so yeah, it does

  186. ralphm

    The other resource is people, and that's a tough one to resolve in general.

  187. ralphm

    9. AOB?

  188. ralphm


  189. nyco

    none from me

  190. MattJ

    None here

  191. ralphm

    10. Date of Next

  192. ralphm

    +1W, provisionally

  193. nyco


  194. ralphm

    I think I can attend

  195. Guus

    with the holidays, all bets are off for me

  196. Guus

    (As in, I'll have to get permission from my wife 😉 )

  197. Seve

    I should be able to attend as well

  198. ralphm

    11. Close

  199. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  200. ralphm bangs gavel

  201. nyco

    thx all! 😉

  202. Seve

    Thank you guys

  203. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  204. Guus

    happy holidays!

  205. MattJ


  206. Ge0rG

    No news about the Trademark license I asked Board about?

  207. jonas’

    thanks for the ruling, board, will take care of it immediately

  208. jonas’

    can someone confirm though that I’m reading the backlog correctly in the sense that board prefers the XEP to be un-published?

  209. Link Mauve


  210. ralphm

    jonas’: in such a way that there's a place holder, like with XEP-0028. Feel free to craft a reasonable message.

  211. jonas’

    did both

  212. jonas’

    build is in progress

  213. ralphm


  214. jonas’

    ralphm, FYI https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0412.html

  215. jonas’

    there’s no state which has a more fitting "red text below the metadata" unfortunately

  216. jonas’

    (and that’s generated by the templating stuff)

  217. ralphm

    I think it is fine like this. Thanks!

  218. jonas’

    you’re welcome I guess? :)

  219. Ge0rG

    So glad we have a process for that. It would have been a horrible oversight if we just waited for the last council member to vote.

  220. Ge0rG

    If only somebody had remembered that process after XEP-0403...

  221. jonas’


  222. pep.

    To have it as 404

  223. edhelas

    pep. :p

  224. pep.

    jonas’, I don't guarantee I have time to help with editing as an everyday^H^H^H week thing, but is there anything that I can help automate maybe?

  225. pep. doesn't know anything about editors' work

  226. jonas’

    pep., most stuff which can be automated is already

  227. jonas’

    the only thing I’m missing is something which hooks on the finished docker builds and tells me that they’re done, so that I can send the emails

  228. jonas’

    (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and I we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)

  229. jonas’

    (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)

  230. jonas’

    soo… if you’re inclined to make a thing which receives the docker-build-has-finished webhook and sends me a message, that’d be good

  231. jonas’

    via jabber, preferably

  232. jonas’

    because when it comes via jabber, i can easily hook my buildbots into doing the email sending once I’m confident that the tooling will do the right thing

  233. Link Mauve


  234. jonas’

    Link Mauve, also good

  235. jonas’

    the buildbots are based on pubsub already ... buuuut I’d have to modify them to be able to subscribe to more than one node