XSF Discussion - 2018-12-20

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  27. moparisthebest


  28. moparisthebest

    This must be the logo

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  151. Guus

    what the...

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  153. Guus

    I'm gone _one day_ and I see logo's in flaming letters?

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  160. pep.

    moparisthebest: you get my vote

  161. pep.

    Run for presidency

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  163. jonas’

    executive director?

  164. edhelas

    not enough lasers and metallic letters to me

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  193. Guus

    lasers only go on sharks (and the occasional ill-tempered bass), not logos

  194. jonas’

    Guus, pft, raptors!

  195. jonas’


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  197. Guus


  198. Ge0rG

    I want a president riding on a bear.

  199. jonas’

    a laserraptor!

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  201. Guus

    Ge0rG will you settle for an action figure? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Putin-Riding-Bear-Action-Figure/dp/B00X61MVE8

  202. Ge0rG

    Guus: sure thing, even with the printing on the package being beyond broken

  203. Ge0rG also just realized how much this is also a pun on the strawman president Putin had between his presidencies

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  264. Guus

    Although I sent apologies for missing the upcoming board meeting, I unexpectedly managed to make it in time.

  265. Seve


  266. Guus

    ("woohoo!" "yeah!")

  267. Guus

    thanks Seve 🙂

  268. nyco


  269. MattJ


  270. Guus pods & pokes at ralphm

  271. ralphm bangs gavel

  272. Guus


  273. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  274. ralphm

    0. Welcome

  275. ralphm

    It seems we have everyone.

  276. ralphm

    Dave raised a point about XEP-0412, so that's on the agenda.

  277. Seve is here

  278. nyco

    it's even in Trello board

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  280. Guus

    I have nothing else for the agenda

  281. MattJ

    Me neither

  282. nyco


  283. nyco

    the former board handed it over

  284. ralphm

    I don't think they did.

  285. ralphm

    But I see you added it as a card, so it is on the agenda

  286. MattJ

    Useless bunch

  287. ralphm

    1. Note taker

  288. ralphm

    dwd around?

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  290. ralphm

    Guess not.

  291. ralphm

    Continuing as we have a bunch of items.

  292. ralphm

    2. XEP-0412, Compliance Suites 2019

  293. ralphm

    I agree with Guus' comments on the board list: let's create a place holder for this XEP until such time it is clear what the Council decides.

  294. ralphm

    Probably similar to what was done for XEP-0028.

  295. Guus

    As I've replied on the board list (which is not publicly accessible, so let me repeat: I'm against keeping a XEP that was prematurely published around.

  296. nyco

    Guus's words make sense, indeed

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  298. MattJ


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  300. ralphm

    jonas’: can you take care of this?

  301. Guus

    for the record: My main argument is that third parties might take the fact that it is published as a reason to start work based on it. As long as there's a chance that the XEP will be revoked/unpublished, we should take steps to avoid people from spending resources on something that we're not sure of yet.

  302. nyco

    the probability that it happens again is non-zero so let's revert like code can be in a repo

  303. Guus

    Second, I don't like how this can be perceived as putting pressure on council members that yet need to vote. A veto now will cause more issues (having to retract the XEP), which takes away from the freedom of choice of these council members. I'm sure that Kev can hold its own, but lets not create a precedent here. We can prevent this by rolling back before the remaining council members cast their vote.

  304. Guus

    ralphm I don't think jonas’ has access to that mailing list

  305. Guus

    so he would not have seen my response.

  306. Guus

    or suggestion to fix

  307. nyco

    the pressure might be already felt, by mistake of course

  308. ralphm

    nyco: the problem is that the number was given out, and if there's going to be any XEP for this, it should be the one for compliance suites, or a tombstone.

  309. ralphm

    Guus: I just wrote the fix above: like XEP-0028

  310. nyco

    that's only a technical workaround

  311. Guus

    I'm not sure what happened with XEP-0028, ralphm

  312. ralphm

    I'm happy to link it here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0028.html

  313. Guus

    ah, ok, that never got replaced/restored, but is retracted 🙂

  314. ralphm

    I'm not sure if it should be removed from source control, though. Just adding a new commit with a notice like this should suffice.

  315. Guus

    yeah, something similar would work.

  316. nyco

    XEP-0028: No Such XEP XEP-0412: No More Such XEP XEP-0412: Like XEP-0028

  317. ralphm

    I'm sure the Editor Team can resolve this.

  318. nyco

    yep, not our duty

  319. Guus

    The Editor Team being just jonas’ nowadays?

  320. ralphm

    nyco: instructing them what to do in this case is, so we just did.

  321. ralphm

    Guus: no, but he added this particular commit

  322. Guus

    who else is editor? Sam's membership expired.

  323. Guus

    https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/editor-team <-- ah, a bunch

  324. ralphm

    I don't think think so, work teams don't have an expiry, I think.

  325. nyco

    there is a card "Call for editors" in our Trello board

  326. Guus

    can non-members be part of a work team?

  327. Seve

    When taking back the CommTeam, only members were accepted

  328. ralphm

    Guus: no

  329. ralphm

    “Participation in Teams shall be limited to elected Members of the Corporation.”

  330. Guus

    So, Sam's out, to my disappointment.

  331. ralphm


  332. ralphm

    Good point

  333. ralphm

    moving on

  334. ralphm

    3. Compliance Suites (again)

  335. ralphm

    This point is about the discussion we had last week, regarding badges

  336. ralphm

    Dave suggested, on list, something that was also mention in the meeting:

  337. ralphm

    “So I suggest we run an Experiment. This experiment would have some badges that developers can claim on their projects, fully self-certified (ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite). The Badges themselves - the images used - would remain copyright XSF - I don't think we need the full weight of trademark law. We agree to revisit the scheme in 6 months and assess how it's being used.”

  338. ralphm

    I'd like to put this up for a vote.

  339. MattJ


  340. ralphm


  341. MattJ


  342. nyco

    yep, plus one

  343. nyco

    try and iterate, I like that

  344. Guus

    "ie, we do not attempt to create a compliance suite" <-- that does not relate to the XEP, but instead to an automated verification tool, right?

  345. ralphm


  346. nyco

    we'll see what we make of it

  347. Guus


  348. nyco

    given the experience and feedback

  349. ralphm


  350. Seve

    Not sure yet, honestly, it is a bit abstract, but I like to try and iterate as nyco said

  351. ralphm

    is that a +0?

  352. Seve

    I'm +0

  353. ralphm


  354. Seve

    Yes, thanks ralphm

  355. nyco

    or -0 ?

  356. ralphm

    Motion carries.

  357. Guus

    I've added a trello card on a backburner list, for us to remember to evaluate this in +6M

  358. ralphm

    I'll discuss with dwd how to move forward to actually have images that represent a badge.

  359. ralphm

    Guus: thanks

  360. ralphm

    4. Call for Editors

  361. Guus

    do we need to facilitate the badges being created?

  362. nyco

    I have a graphic designer who may help us

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  364. ralphm

    if someone volunteers to create such badges, that's be great

  365. ralphm


  366. Guus

    nyco if he'd be interested, that would be great

  367. Guus

    could you ping him?

  368. nyco


  369. Guus


  370. nyco

    I'm on it

  371. ralphm


  372. Guus


  373. ralphm

    Now, onto #4

  374. ralphm

    So this was raised by Dave on list

  375. ralphm

    But I suggested that Council should issue this call, as they actually appoint candidates.

  376. Guus

    (I didn't see Dave's mail)

  377. ralphm

    or really, they select them and we appoint

  378. Guus

    Our website lists 6 editors, one of which is Sam. We furher have Kev, PSA, Jonas', Flow and JCBrand

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  380. ralphm

    Mail from 2018-12-12, included this:

  381. ralphm

    “> > 1) XSF Editor - this team needs more members. Could you put out a call? (I meant to ask last week, actually). Given your charter, with the XMPP Council selecting volunteers and presenting them to the Board for approval, I believe it would be proper for you to put out the call to our membership. ”

  382. ralphm

    (the latter is my reply)

  383. ralphm

    Dave agreed and would.

  384. Guus

    I'm happy for either to issue that call.

  385. ralphm

    So I think this item is handled.

  386. ralphm

    5. GSoC

  387. Guus

    I sent a request for help to the mailing list, but did not get any response

  388. ralphm

    We put out a request for an admin. Have we gotten candidates yet?

  389. ralphm


  390. ralphm

    Keeping this one on.

  391. ralphm

    Let's nudge in the new year

  392. Guus

    let's not keep it to long though

  393. Guus

    strive to decide one way or the other mid january?

  394. ralphm

    Guus: agreed

  395. nyco


  396. ralphm

    6. Summit / FOSDEM

  397. ralphm

    I don't have anything to report.

  398. Guus

    nor me.

  399. nyco

    me neither

  400. ralphm

    7. Meeting with Peter

  401. nyco


  402. ralphm

    Still pending.

  403. nyco


  404. ralphm

    8. Board Priorities

  405. ralphm

    nyco says this was carried over.

  406. nyco

    so this is a subject that the former board has passed on, like a hot potatoe do we want to commit to prios? or we drop it? (or any other option?)

  407. Guus

    given the ineffectiveness of last board on this (them slackers!), I wonder if this has any practical use.

  408. nyco

    I have the feeling that the board resolves issues as they arrive we may bot have common, shared, larger goals

  409. MattJ

    I think in general the board's role here is to enable most of these things to happen

  410. MattJ

    We established SCAM for meetups, for example, and I think that's going well

  411. ralphm nods

  412. MattJ

    The main thing blocking many other priorities is funding

  413. Guus

    Sure, we need to do stuff (c)(r), but do we need a defined list of priorities for that to happen?

  414. MattJ

    which is something we are focusing on

  415. nyco

    MattJ and time

  416. MattJ

    so I don't have any problems with the board's current tasks

  417. MattJ

    i.e. setting a priority is fine, but it has to translate to action items. What are those?

  418. MattJ

    This was my problem with all the previous discussions about priorities

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  420. nyco

    correct: prios > actions do we want to support that train of thoughts?

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  422. MattJ


  423. ralphm

    So we continue as we have.

  424. ralphm


  425. MattJ

    My #1 priority is fixing our funding problems

  426. ralphm


  427. nyco

    how? what actions have (expected) impact?

  428. nyco

    I guess fixing the following up with sponsors would be a great start, and a big effort

  429. nyco

    XSF sponsorship AND Summit's

  430. MattJ

    We have totally failed at dealing with our sponsors for the past few years (at least). ralphm and Guus are working towards fixing that (with help from stpeter)

  431. ralphm

    Well, we need to clean up our list of sponsors, assess our current financial situation with Peter, and then come up with an idea of what we want to do. E.g. the Summit always costs us money, and if we want to do more, we would need money.

  432. MattJ

    With funds coming in, we'll be able to better fund meetups and such, which was the main priority we discussed after the survey results were processed

  433. ralphm

    Right, I'm trying to schedule a meeting before end-of-year

  434. nyco

    let's not expect fixing sponsorship will fix lots of pain points

  435. nyco

    let's not expect fixing sponsorship will resolve lots of pain points

  436. Guus

    it's a place to start.

  437. nyco

    ok then

  438. nyco

    I generally agree

  439. ralphm

    Sponsorship is our only source of money, so yeah, it does

  440. ralphm

    The other resource is people, and that's a tough one to resolve in general.

  441. ralphm

    9. AOB?

  442. ralphm


  443. nyco

    none from me

  444. MattJ

    None here

  445. ralphm

    10. Date of Next

  446. ralphm

    +1W, provisionally

  447. nyco


  448. ralphm

    I think I can attend

  449. Guus

    with the holidays, all bets are off for me

  450. Guus

    (As in, I'll have to get permission from my wife 😉 )

  451. Seve

    I should be able to attend as well

  452. ralphm

    11. Close

  453. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  454. ralphm bangs gavel

  455. nyco

    thx all! 😉

  456. Seve

    Thank you guys

  457. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  458. Guus

    happy holidays!

  459. MattJ


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  466. Ge0rG

    No news about the Trademark license I asked Board about?

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  483. jonas’

    thanks for the ruling, board, will take care of it immediately

  484. jonas’

    can someone confirm though that I’m reading the backlog correctly in the sense that board prefers the XEP to be un-published?

  485. Link Mauve


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  493. ralphm

    jonas’: in such a way that there's a place holder, like with XEP-0028. Feel free to craft a reasonable message.

  494. jonas’

    did both

  495. jonas’

    build is in progress

  496. ralphm


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  510. jonas’

    ralphm, FYI https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0412.html

  511. jonas’

    there’s no state which has a more fitting "red text below the metadata" unfortunately

  512. jonas’

    (and that’s generated by the templating stuff)

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  520. ralphm

    I think it is fine like this. Thanks!

  521. jonas’

    you’re welcome I guess? :)

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  546. Ge0rG

    So glad we have a process for that. It would have been a horrible oversight if we just waited for the last council member to vote.

  547. Ge0rG

    If only somebody had remembered that process after XEP-0403...

  548. jonas’


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  554. pep.

    To have it as 404

  555. edhelas

    pep. :p

  556. pep.

    jonas’, I don't guarantee I have time to help with editing as an everyday^H^H^H week thing, but is there anything that I can help automate maybe?

  557. pep. doesn't know anything about editors' work

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  568. jonas’

    pep., most stuff which can be automated is already

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  570. jonas’

    the only thing I’m missing is something which hooks on the finished docker builds and tells me that they’re done, so that I can send the emails

  571. jonas’

    (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and I we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)

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  574. jonas’

    (the email sending is 99% automated, but I’m paranoid and we agreed on not sending out mails for editorial changes to keep the Signal/Noise ratio good, and that’s not implemented in the tool yet)

  575. jonas’

    soo… if you’re inclined to make a thing which receives the docker-build-has-finished webhook and sends me a message, that’d be good

  576. jonas’

    via jabber, preferably

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  578. jonas’

    because when it comes via jabber, i can easily hook my buildbots into doing the email sending once I’m confident that the tooling will do the right thing

  579. Link Mauve


  580. jonas’

    Link Mauve, also good

  581. jonas’

    the buildbots are based on pubsub already ... buuuut I’d have to modify them to be able to subscribe to more than one node

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