> it would be better to use google translate api
As someone struggling with a supposedly spanish guy, asking weird questions in a german "Linux Q&A"-MUC in horrible tanslated english i fear any automation in this direction.
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flow
I'd also challenge the statement that data forms do not allow for i18n
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lovetox
yeah flow, the whole xep mentions lang not once except as examples in toplevel stanzas (iq, message etc)
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flow
but that does not imply that data forms have an i18n issue. Ad-hoc commands are a good example
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lovetox
of course it implies that, if implementors have to do their own interpretation how i18n *could* maybe work, then its a very real issue for a standard
Zash
flow: Label in an attribute isn't problematic?
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lovetox
and i dont get your reference to ad-hoc commands, in the xep there is a own section that just deals with localization
flow
Zash, I'm sorry, but I don't understand, could you rephrase your question?
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Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0004.html#protocol
Description goes into the `label` attribute, so it can't work like <body> with multiple xml:lang.
flow
lovetox, that is why I believe that data forms are well designed without i18n/xml:lang: You deal with the localization on the data-form using XEP
lovetox
you could duplicate the whole form ^^
lovetox
so you are saying we should not use dataforms if they are not part of another xep?
lovetox
i guess thats one way to solve it
flow
Zash, right a <{jabber:x:data}x/> element can only have exactly one xml:lang
flow
lovetox, I guess it possibly could come down to a philosopical question, but do we ever use data forms without another XEP?
Zash
flow: Mhm. If you only ever send that after knowing the preferred target language then it's fine I guess.
lovetox
hm i recently wrote a plugin that just does that, simple usecase, bot sends out a form, user fills it out and submits, bot acts on it
flow
Zash, aggreed, the question is how to handle situations where you don't know the xml:lang of the recipient *and* perform delayed communication (i.e., you can't probe xml:lang of the recipient)
lovetox
just out of interest how do i prope the xml lang of a contact?
Zash
Send `<message><body xml:lang="en">Hello</body><body xml:lang="fr">Bonjour</body><body xml:lang="sv">Hej</body> etc.. </message>` and wait for a reply? :)
lovetox
wow .. :D
lovetox
hence my idea to put it into the disco info
flow
then you still have the xml:lang of the stanza, or, if you don't know the recipients lang, you would probably define a wrapping extension element that maps a data form for every lang (not ideal but still)
flow
lovetox, I would imagine that xml:lang is a property of the account, and not the device
flow
so put it into PEP :)
pep.
Zash, what if the other side replies `<message><body xml:lang="en">Hello</body><body xml:lang="fr">Bonjour</body><body xml:lang="sv">Hej</body> etc.. </message>`
flow
but then again, it appears i18n in IM systems is basically non-existend and people are fine with it
flow
cause you usually know the language you are going to use with your contact
and most bots are happy with just using english, or esperanto
Zash
flow: Bots and XMPP UIs like MUC room config and such tho?
flow
lovetox, I feel like the term overengineered is overused, I'd rather say that it is not a top prority, having facilities for i18n is still nice
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flow
Zash, well for most XMPP UIs you know the xml:lang of the initiating entity I'd assume, so it is nice to have i18n here
Zash
True
lovetox
yeah its nice on muc config forms :)
lovetox
also IBR maybe
lovetox
everything that interacts with the server
flow
the problem is really only if you want to send a dataform to someone who did not ask for it
Zash
Where you have an initiating entity
Zash
flow: Have you ever wanted to?
lovetox
also you dont really use i18n on the form there, the server just sends out the form in the correct language
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flow
I can't remember that I ever found myself in the situation, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be beneficial to be prepared for it
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lovetox
Zash, your issue tracker could send you a new ticket was created and you could act on it from inside xmpp
lovetox
i find that a nice usecase
flow
But here the i18n issue could be solved by putting xml:lang into PEP
Zash
Just Do It!
flow
I'm going to make another cup of tea, that is what I'm just doing right now
Zash
As long as it supports multiple languages and you've studied prior art like Accept-Lang and whatever the language field in vcard was.
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flow
sure, that is what I also had in mind
flow
but then again, not a top priority (for me) right now. I gotta find out how to UEFI boot from a soft-raid1 ESP
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pep.
> Flow> the problem is really only if you want to send a dataform to someone who did not ask for it
> Zash> flow: Have you ever wanted to?
Wouldn't it be the case for polls with dataforms
pep.
(If that existed, but it's among the discussed topics right, /me not entirely following)
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lovetox
yes you could facilitate a vote with it, even voting for multiple things in one go
lovetox
but its deemed to complicated, mostly because most clients dont implement a generic form viewer which you would need for it
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flow
pep., well if you consider the memberbot for example, then there is an initial message to start the poll
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pep.
What about non-bots? You're assuming you've got the lang from previous discussions as well?
flow
pep., I'm not sure which scenario you are sketching
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pep.
Somebody wants to submit a poll in a MUCs. Somebody that is not a bot. I definitely know MUCs where not everybody speaks the same language
pep.
I could send multiple forms, but then I might want a way to reconcile
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flow
I'm not sure if this is how I would implement it. A, possibly ad-hoc based, voting service appears to be a better approach. But if you want to send a poll to a MUC with probably mulit-lang participants, then you need to submit the poll multiple times in every language anyways
pep.
Would be good of other users could chime in and translate it, like sending a new form with a different xml:lang with the same stanzaid or sth, maybe. I have no idea how horrible this is protocol design wise
moparisthebest
And how do you know they are translating your form instead of insulting everyone
pep.
You don't, but that's probably not something I want to worry about, they can already do that anyway
pep.
Or well you do, they're still sending messages in the same room
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Neustradamus
https://github.com/horazont/xmppoke-queue is planned to move to https://github.com/xmpp-observatory/ like others?
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rion
Can anyone explain me what is ni:///sha3-256;wqfDv8OGw7jCvx7Dl2ZRw4FHVsKgYcOWYsO14oKsw79Nw6Q7ScO64oCaw5gKS-KCrMO4Q0o in SIMS?