XSF Discussion - 2019-02-03

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  670. 404.city intosi, Kev, MattJ, ralphm Could replace the link on the page https://xmpp.org/getting-started/ Replace the link https://list.jabber.at/ to https://compliance.conversations.im/
  671. ralphm We're cleaning up at FOSDEM. Please file a PR.
  672. ralphm Thanks!
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  681. Ge0rG 404.city: those lists are not the same. Also: why?
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  687. 404.city Ge0rG, The new catalog is better than the old
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  695. pep. The compliance tester is not a catalogue
  696. 404.city intosi, Kev MattJ ralphm the file https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/517
  697. pep. It's a compliance tester
  698. pep. Just like it says in the name
  699. 404.city pep., This is an independent directory. Anyone can add your server. Users can watch server features
  700. pep. Yes I know what the compliance tester is, thanks
  701. jonas’ I don’t think we should promote a listing which ranks servers by arbitrary criteria
  702. pep. Well any criteria is not going to be good enough for the next person. I don't think xmpp.org should point to a list at all imho
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  705. jonas’ a listing which is sorted alphabetically as an entry point is probably okay
  706. 404.city jonas’ I agree with you. Criteria for adding a server to the list.jabber.at - the server is liked by admin jabber.at. The reasons for removing the server do not like admin jabber.at.
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  708. pep. How is the compliance tester better. You're sorted by arbitrary criteria as well. As in, it's often not useful to check all the boxes, and those who do might actually not, even.
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  715. 404.city pep., The fact that this list is independent. Anyone can add your server
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  718. Zash Doesn't that apply to both?
  719. 404.city Zash, I was banned by the admin list.jabber.at
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  721. pep. 404.city: I don't think that's what you want for users anyway. I'd like an opinionated list with clear criteria (even if it's "the maintainer of the list has to know the server operator")
  722. 404.city Zash, He directly said who I want to add and add. Who I want and delete
  723. pep. That's why I don't think xmpp.org is a good venue
  724. Ge0rG 404.city [18:49]: > Zash, I was banned by the admin list.jabber.at What was the reason?
  725. pep. 404.city: tbh, judging by your latest actions I'm not really surprised, but heh
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  727. 404.city pep., Personal conflicts should not affect the addition or removal from the list represented by XMPP.ORG
  728. Ge0rG 404.city: was that before or after you blocked s2s with them?
  729. 404.city Ge0rG, I just want an independent server list
  730. Zash Make your own
  731. Ge0rG 404.city: we all want one. But nobody so far invested the time to maintain an objective list.
  732. Zash Both those lists are independent. Both could ban you for any reason.
  733. 404.city Users go to the site xmpp.org
  734. Zash Neither are affiliated with xmpp.org
  735. mati *sigh* so what does this guy want here?
  736. Zash This kind of thing is why XSF people might be reluctant to host a list or even link to one at all.
  737. pep. I'm all for removing that from xmpp.org. That would also prevent horrors like listing pidgin in the client list. But then 404.city, you can only blame yourself for getting removed from that list.
  738. 404.city mati, I want an independent server list
  739. pep. Well that's what the jabber.at list is?
  740. mati pep., I guess he doesn't like the way it's independent
  741. Zash has left
  742. pep. You mean you want a list officially promoted where you appear
  743. mati Disclaimer: I run that list.
  744. pep. 404.city: why do you want users that bad, I guess you should answer that first
  745. Ge0rG There was a similar debacle about the get-started list some months ago
  746. Ge0rG 404.city: you were told back then that you need to gain some trust with the community. This is not how to do it
  747. lskdjf has joined
  748. 404.city mati, I don’t like that XMPP.ORG offers a list of servers with a bad update and deletion of servers according to personal preferences of the admin jabber.at
  749. pep. 404.city: please define independent then
  750. 404.city Ge0rG, I will not forgive add my server. I will forgive add freedom server list
  751. valo has joined
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  753. Ge0rG > 404.city: was that before or after you blocked s2s with them? Still interested in that
  754. Ge0rG xmpp.kindergarten
  755. mati Ge0rG, I removed the server, before he blocked s2s connections.
  756. equil has joined
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  758. moparisthebest Not knowing much about this, seems to me a list with clear, checkable criteria anyone can double check independently, that any server can be added to would ALWAYS be better than one where 1 person/group chose manually?
  759. mati it's a list of XMPP servers that are usable and that I (or you, or anyone) can tell others to use. It has been around for almost 10 years. It tests SRV records, etc, and homepages are actually visited manually be me to check if they contain meaningful information.
  760. moparisthebest I'd vote replace the link with such a list, or remove the link
  761. Ge0rG moparisthebest: would you assist your vote by creating and maintaining that list?
  762. mati All that is clearly documented when you add the server. If something isn't right, the site gives feedback.
  763. dwd has left
  764. 404.city mati, You deleted the server 404 because you didn’t like my position
  765. moparisthebest Ge0rG: uh no, that's the whole point, no one should be in charge of maintaining it
  766. moparisthebest Sounds accept unlimited arbitrary submissions and check them against a defined criteria with code
  767. mati And I personally wouldn't tell anyone to use a server where your account could get banned just because the admin finds out that you have this or that opinion on XMPP.
  768. moparisthebest It's the only fair/impartial way
  769. 404.city mati, 404 is a technically good server and a good privacy policy.
  770. Ge0rG moparisthebest: somebody needs to write the code and run the site. We hardly have the resources to keep xmpp.net online
  771. moparisthebest Ge0rG: well isn't that just the compliance tester?
  772. Ge0rG moparisthebest: compliant to what?
  773. mati Ge0rG, moparisthebest, I should note that my list code is actually on github, but it's pretty old already and definetly needs some love.
  774. moparisthebest The criteria the code checks for
  775. 404.city mati, I blocked the your user for manual spam. You just blocked me
  776. moparisthebest I'm just saying if the xsf is supposed to be impartial it should link to an impartial list with exact criteria defined by code or no list at all
  777. Ge0rG 404.city: you blocked the user or the whole domain?
  778. 404.city mati, Do you like or dislike the server is the criteria unworthy of XMPP.ORG!
  779. Link Mauve moparisthebest, you can’t solve social problem with technical solutions.
  780. moparisthebest If anyone can remove a server from the list for non technical reasons it's not impartial, and shouldn't be supported by xsf
  781. moparisthebest The xsf explicitly doesn't solve social problems I thought
  782. Zash moparisthebest: an xmpp service is not a purely technical thing
  783. 404.city Ge0rG, I blocked only the user in the conference. I complained to the admin jabber.at about his user, but did not manage to describe the complaint.
  784. moparisthebest I think that's all you can grade impartially though
  785. moparisthebest Otherwise you get into endlessly hairy situations
  786. moparisthebest Like this one
  787. mimi89999 has joined
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  790. Guus The getting started page is there to help people get started. The jabber.at list has info on signing up with many of the listed domains. The compliance checker is great software, but does not really help novice users.
  791. 404.city moparisthebest, Better to let jabber.at remove you from list, if c jabber.at is spamming?
  792. 404.city Genius!
  793. Guus Emphasis on novice.
  794. moparisthebest Guus: either the xsf is impartial and needs to link to an entirely impartial list or no list at all, or it's partial and should maintain it's own partial list
  795. moparisthebest In my opinion of course
  796. 404.city moparisthebest, Now beginners prefer to use https://compliance.conversations.im/
  797. moparisthebest I don't actually care about particulars of this case, I don't care if a server was removed because it broke local laws, either way that means it's not impartial
  798. 404.city moparisthebest, I support your opinion
  799. moparisthebest Hell we list Pidgin when we all agree that's a terrible idea, but somehow it's ok to have an arbitrary King of servers... Pretty inconsistent...
  800. Link Mauve 404.city, do you have a public list of bannable behaviours from users on your server?
  801. Ge0rG moparisthebest: except we should remove pidgin from the list
  802. Zash moparisthebest: Pidgin is a great example of what happens if you have technical criteria.
  803. Link Mauve MattJ, did you manage to get in touch with the Pidgin guys at FOSDEM?
  804. Zash Link Mauve: There were Pidgin people at FOSDEM?
  805. Guus moparisthebest: I hear you, but maintaining a list of our own would require more resources that we have available. The current list is the next best thing as far as I'm concerned. (Happy to add more lists btw). Not providing any list would defeat the purpose of having a getting started page.
  806. mati moparisthebest, so just so I get this straight: If an XMPP server illegally sells all private data and chats to an advertising company, it should not be removed from a list, because that wouldn't be impartial?
  807. Link Mauve Zash, apparently there was one person who wrote some patches at some point.
  808. Link Mauve Hmm, by that metric I would count too. :x
  809. moparisthebest Zash: right, but the choice is technical criteria (impartial) or being partial, I don't see a third option
  810. Zash moparisthebest: There's no choice, you can't be impartial
  811. moparisthebest I'm fine either way actually, I just dislike saying we are impartial if we are not
  812. mati I btw. also (like Guus) advocate that other lists are added there too. I'm happy that my list is there, but I see no reason why conversations.im shouldn't be there too
  813. Zash All you can do is pretend that you're impartial when you're defining the criteria
  814. mati and if 404.city makes a list, then add his list too, please.
  815. Zash How about everyone makes their own list, and then everyone makes lists of lists, and then the XSF lists those lists
  816. labdsf has joined
  817. moparisthebest mati: right if an server also required users to overthrow the govt of France and worship the admin as a God you still can't remove it if you are impartial
  818. Link Mauve moparisthebest, being neutral doesn’t mean being impartial.
  819. Guus The compliance checker is not suitable for a 'getting started' kind of user (it is way to technical), which is why it is not linked on that page. I love that checker though, but it serves another purpose.
  820. Link Mauve If some specific software or service is actively being harmful, there is no issue with removing it.
  821. Link Mauve Hmm, actually banning those is still being impartial, they did something you consider not fitting with your goals, and remove advertisement for them.
  822. Zash Guus: It's being used for that already. Everyone loves collecting all the green checkmarks
  823. moparisthebest Link Mauve: IF that's one of the criteria sure
  824. Guus Zash: sure, but not by people that don't really know what XMPP is and need to figure out how to register an account.
  825. Link Mauve I don’t see much contentious issue with that.
  826. moparisthebest Public criteria
  827. 404.city Terms of use 404.city Any illegal activity is prohibited. Illegal activities are not protected by a privacy policy - It is forbidden to send spam. Prohibited intrusive advertising other messengers (Telegram, Matrix, etc)
  828. moparisthebest Testable
  829. Guus Zash: aka my mum.
  830. Link Mauve moparisthebest, so better start documenting those.
  831. Zash Guus: Everyone knows that more green == more better
  832. moparisthebest Link Mauve: that's why I like compliance tester or similar, it's already documented with code
  833. wurstsalat 🍿
  834. Guus Zash: sure, but the compliance checker list does not link to pages that explain how to register at a particular service. The jabber.at list does.
  835. Link Mauve moparisthebest, that doesn’t take any of the social issues into account.
  836. Link Mauve But please make a compliance tester for clients, so we can stop advertising Pidgin on this merit alone.
  837. Zash Guus: Indeed, but doesn't the compliance checker check for IBR? Then you just type the domain into your client and It Just Works. (Not saying this is good)
  838. mati I thought most servers have disabled IBR nowadays.
  839. Guus Zash: I don't think that the intended audience for the getting started page understand that.
  840. rtq3 has left
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  842. Zash Guus: Probably not. I don't think it stops them if they have a client that supports IBR.
  843. Link Mauve mati, IBR is kind of mandatory for novice users.
  844. Guus Zash: I assume IBR is mostly disabled?
  845. 404.city I would prefer that the lists of servers be created by the code, and not by the admin jabber.at. Admin jabber.at is biased and censored, not respecting the policies "term of use" of other servers
  846. Guus To cold to type on mobile phone further. Need to find next train.
  847. Guus Afk
  848. MattJ Link Mauve [19:28]: > MattJ, did you manage to get in touch with the Pidgin guys at FOSDEM? Sadly not
  849. Link Mauve Ok.
  850. moparisthebest Social aspects are useless anyway... Like 404.city says he bans illegal activity, what does that even mean???
  851. moparisthebest Illegal where, for whom
  852. Ge0rG 404.city: so you demand all other service admins to follow your own terms of service now?
  853. Ge0rG now could add "Do not be an asshole" to his ToS and block 404.city?
  854. moparisthebest Even something like "overthrowing govts" is something like France wouldn't like to happen there but would like to happen in Venezuela, useless
  855. moparisthebest Xsf should focus on the technical side only in my opinion
  856. Zash Guus: I wouldn't assume that everyone disables IBR. I think it allows for good UX. It might be common however for it to simply be a redirect to a website.
  857. Link Mauve moparisthebest, we would like that to happen in France though. :p
  858. moparisthebest Lol well right
  859. moparisthebest That's basically my point
  860. wurstsalat has joined
  861. Ge0rG Guus, Zash: I have IBR enabled on yax.im and there are almost zero spam bots
  862. Link Mauve When coming back from FOSDEM, I saw a sign saying “the old regime must fall — the people” written on the train. ^^
  863. Zash mati: ^ also
  864. Link Mauve I also have IBR enabled on jabber.fr and most spam bots are identified and dealt with.
  865. Zash IBR is fine if the service admin is being responsible
  866. alameyo has joined
  867. pep. moparisthebest: it's all about social issues, I don't think there is such a thing as impartial. In the end somebody will make a (biased?) decision that others will disagree with.. Even if it's somewhat in line with published ToS
  868. moparisthebest pep.: Then IMHO xsf should remove the link or quit claiming to be impartial
  869. Link Mauve moparisthebest, is the goal to make the website as useless as possible?
  870. Ge0rG Link Mauve: apparently ye.
  871. Ge0rG Link Mauve: apparently yes
  872. waqas Impartiality >> Usefulness, no? I thought that was in the bylaws somewhere
  873. moparisthebest Or say we are partial and elect a king of the list Link Mauve
  874. Link Mauve Can we then delegate handling of the xmpp.org domain to the XDF (provisional name)?
  875. Link Mauve I feel like having it being useful is way more useful than it being impartial.
  876. Link Mauve But I may be partial.
  877. moparisthebest Or maybe the board gets to vote on servers now
  878. moparisthebest I'm ok with basically anything but the current situation of saying "we are impartial, but the servers we recommend are curated by someone we don't know and have no control over" that seems wrong
  879. moparisthebest Stop saying we are impartial, stop linking to that list, or make an impartial list
  880. moparisthebest Or stop saying we are impartial and come up with a fair process to curate a list
  881. pep. Link Mauve: I'm sure it doesn't have to be impartial, it's of course biased. And yeah I'd remove that from xmpp.org and use another more adapted venue
  882. moparisthebest That's the hardest though
  883. Link Mauve moparisthebest, a list of servers will always be incomplete, that prevents it from being fully impartial already so… Why?
  884. moparisthebest Not if anyone can submit to it
  885. Link Mauve You’re already heavily biaised towards servers which advertise themselves, which have admins speaking English, which know about xmpp.org, etc.
  886. Link Mauve You’re already heavily biaised towards servers which advertise themselves, which have admins speaking English, who know about xmpp.org, etc.
  887. Guus Found warm train. 😁
  888. Link Mauve Found warm home already. ^^
  889. waqas Link Mauve: There's also a bias towards XMPP servers
  890. Guus I think this is being pulled out of proportion, tbh.
  891. Link Mauve waqas, yes, and public ones at that!
  892. moparisthebest Pull requests accepted, translations accepted, problems solved
  893. Guus I don't see an issue with retaining the jabber.at list, and would add more. I'm not convinced that the compliance checker is a suitable list for that page.
  894. Guus > Found warm home already. ^^ Lucky bastard 😉
  895. Link Mauve Guus, +1.
  896. Link Mauve moparisthebest, this is quite fallacious tbh.
  897. Ge0rG moparisthebest [19:50]: > Stop saying we are impartial, stop linking to that list, or make an impartial list Linking to an external list is different from maintaining a list
  898. Ge0rG We don't have a mandate to only link to impartial sites
  899. rtq3 has left
  900. Ge0rG Otherwise we'd have to remove all external links
  901. architekt has joined
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  903. moparisthebest Great can we remove Pidgin then
  904. Ge0rG moparisthebest: I wish we could
  905. moparisthebest Since we are partial and most of us want it removed
  906. Ge0rG moparisthebest: send a PR
  907. pep. You mean another one :)
  908. Ge0rG I hated the addition too, because it harms us all, in my opinion. But I'm not on board, so it's not my decision
  909. 404.city has joined
  910. Ge0rG (and yes, I brought that up with Board)
  911. 404.city Ge0rG, No, I do not require other servers to follow the rules of 404. I will forgive an independent list of servers on xmpp.org. I don't want admin jabber.at to decide which servers XFS recommends!
  912. vanitasvitae Crazy idea: instead of pointing to a list of servers, where the top 10 grow untik they have to close registrations, why not invest energy into sites like yubohost which tell users how to setup and selfhost their own servers easily and *properly*?
  913. pep. We need both. Most users will never do that
  914. moparisthebest yunohost* presumably
  915. Link Mauve vanitasvitae, it’s a significantly higher barrier of entry.
  916. alameyo has left
  917. Link Mauve Also, most people who can do that already have a server running which can install an XMPP server in an easier way.
  918. vanitasvitae Surely, but having mlre servers is not a bad thing
  919. moparisthebest I agree though, my mom happily uses my xmpp server, she'd never in a million years set one up
  920. pep. "Guus> I don't see an issue with retaining the jabber.at list, and would add more.", then people are going to complain about the order in which your present these lists :p
  921. Zash vanitasvitae: 👍
  922. moparisthebest pep.: random order of course :)
  923. alameyo has joined
  924. Ge0rG pep.: people are going to complain.
  925. pep. vanitasvitae: mlre?
  926. pep. Ge0rG: yes, that's my point
  927. vanitasvitae > vanitasvitae: mlre? What does that mean? :D
  928. Ge0rG 404.city: the XSF recommends a list, not servers. There is currently one well maintained list out there.
  929. moparisthebest I think he's asking what mlre means
  930. moparisthebest I haven't heard that either
  931. Ge0rG I think it means "more"
  932. moparisthebest Lol too used to acronyms...
  933. vanitasvitae :D
  934. vanitasvitae Ah yeah sorry I meant more servers
  935. vanitasvitae I mean, thats the basis of federation.
  936. 404.city Ge0rG, List list.jabber.at closed list. Adding to this list depends on one person. This is a biased list
  937. 404.city Ge0rG, XFS should not be a place where one person decides which servers to recommend.
  938. moparisthebest I think we've beat the horse enough 404.city , put in a pr linking to another list in addition, and a note saying these lists are not impartial
  939. 404.city I hope to see a freedom community XFS.
  940. moparisthebest I prefer BTRFS
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  943. vanitasvitae > I prefer BTRFS 😅
  944. rtq3 has left
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  946. Guus Guys, I loves the summit & our FOSDEM participation!
  947. Guus Thanks everyone, especially those brave enough the get up on the stage to spread the word! 😉
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  952. ralphm 👍🎉💪
  953. 404.city mati Ge0rG Can I install the server of the matrix and go to your conferences, offering to abandon your servers? Then you will understand my thoughts... I’ll sign up for jabber.at server to have it delete you if you try to block me)
  954. 404.city mati This is a joke, but I expected an understanding of the problem
  955. equil has joined
  956. moparisthebest To be clear that's his list, he can do what he wants with it, he can ban you because you like the color yellow, I have no problem with this
  957. moparisthebest Only the xsf claiming to be impartial yet linking only to that list :)
  958. moparisthebest Anyway, we have the solution, put in a pr 404.city
  959. 404.city moparisthebest, I even added both lists list.jabber.at + compliance.conversations.im, let users choose what is best for them, but this was rejected
  960. valo has joined
  961. 404.city I think the XFS community is a closed community where new members do not respect. I am disappointed in XFS lobbying interests of old participants. I have bad english that express thoughts correctly.
  962. yomane has left
  963. waqas I'm not sure if there's an "XFS community", but I personally find the XMPP community to be one of the nicest to be found online. That was the attraction for me roughly a decade ago.
  964. Guus 404.city: It must be annoying that your service is not listed, I get that. I will happily add another list (that includes you), but do not think that the compliance checker list is a good list for the Getting Started page.
  965. moparisthebest 404.city: if I understood the consensus in here a few minutes ago, it was we can add new lists, so put in a PR to do so
  966. Alex has left
  967. mati Regardless of whether it's a good idea to add the compliance list there, I just want to point out again that my list is open source and anyone can host a copy.
  968. mati And anyone who wants to can file issues or PRs and I'm happy to improve any documentation that is surely missing
  969. dwd has left
  970. mati And I like to have independent lists. I'll happily add links to any other list, just like jabber.at has links to the compliance list
  971. 404.city Guss If I create a list where there are no preconceived addition terms, will it be added as an alternative?
  972. sezuan has left
  973. 404.city mati, Add back to your list 404.city
  974. mati Guus: thanks for your kind comments on GitHub. That helped my mood.
  975. dwd has left
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  977. 404.city mati You ruined my mood. I did not quarrel with you, you just picked it up and deleted it
  978. mimi89999 has left
  979. 404.city What is the point of XFS if it does not protect the rights of administrators of XMPP servers, but advertises biased lists.
  980. Link Mauve Storing files, I guess.
  981. Link Mauve (Sorry.)
  982. rtq3 has left
  983. Link Mauve 404.city, protecting your rights should be up to your country, tho.
  984. rtq3 has joined
  985. Link Mauve Or something similar.
  986. labdsf has joined
  987. vanitasvitae Can we now stop reiterating points that have already been brought up please?
  988. j.r 🍿
  989. architekt has joined
  990. pep. 404.city: why do you want users that bad? Seriously. I'd love to have an answer to that question
  991. pep. 404.city: why do you want users that bad? Seriously. I'd love to have an answer to that question
  992. 404.city vanitasvitae, Yes. I see no point in participating in XFS. If I offer a new list of impartial, he will again be rejected
  993. 404.city pep., I can not translate your question. Rephrase
  994. j.r 404.city: why do you trie so hard to gain useres, pep. asked
  995. j.r s/useres/users
  996. sezuan has left
  997. 404.city j.r, I wanted to open a non-profit organization supporting the development of XMPP, decentralization, etc
  998. vanitasvitae Also s/trie/try
  999. j.r That doesn't answer the question
  1000. j.r > Also s/trie/try Typing on mobile xD
  1001. 404.city j.r, We need more users to attract investment to the opening
  1002. vanitasvitae You can do that without having a ton of users on yohr server
  1003. vanitasvitae (Which actually hurts decentralization) :D
  1004. 404.city vanitasvitae, This you can do. I cant. I am not from the country where it is easy to do
  1005. Guus For what it's worth: I acted (rejected the PRs) primarily based on motivations that I know are not universally agreed upon by the XSF members. If desired, we can bring this before the board.
  1006. Ge0rG 404.city: so you have an undisclosed financial interest in the users? What do you offer your investors?
  1007. Ge0rG Guus: I wish you had rejected the pidgin pr on such grounds
  1008. Guus Ge0rG: let's handle one hot potato at a time 😁
  1009. 404.city vanitasvitae, Developing modern XMPP clients on PCs requires large investments
  1010. j.r Also just to say: 404.city provocatively registered @xmpp@mastodon.social as Mastodon ID... it looks a bit like an official account of the XFS or so if you see the handle first
  1011. dwd has left
  1012. Guus j.r: I'm guessing you did not yet finish eating your popcorn? 😆
  1013. dwd has left
  1014. j.r Guus: yeay
  1015. j.r * yea
  1016. vanitasvitae j.r: yeah it would be nice if that handle would be transfered over to the XSF / if the XSF would have acted earlier to be present on the fediverse.
  1017. Zash Or self-host it
  1018. j.r vanitasvitae: that's what I wanted to say...
  1019. Zash Or pick another server
  1020. 404.city j.r, We specifically did not use XMPP in the domain, although this is possible.
  1021. j.r 404.city: I think you didn't get me
  1022. Link Mauve I’ve been discussing with a girl who’s writing an ActivityPub server at FOSDEM, it doesn’t sound as incompatible as I thought before, and I may try a few things with it.
  1023. vanitasvitae Unfortunately they dont offer popcorn on the train, so I have to fall back to kinder choco bons
  1024. vanitasvitae XMPPub
  1025. labdsf has joined
  1026. 404.city j.r, Mastodon does not allow to change the nickname. If XFS needs my account, can I give it away or delete account
  1027. jjrh has left
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  1029. j.r 404.city: why did you registed this id?
  1030. rtq3 has left
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  1032. 404.city j.r I did not think about it. It is simply short for XMPP server.
  1033. j.r Hm ok
  1034. Guus > j.r, Mastodon does not allow to change the nickname. If XFS needs my account, can I give it away or delete account That's a gracious offer, thank you. If the commteam thinks having access to that account has value, then I hope they will reach out to you. Cc nyco, jcbrand, seve
  1035. Guus Phone battery dead! Goodnight everyone!
  1036. flow g'night Guus
  1037. dwd has left
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  1042. jonas’ s/XFS/XSF/g
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  1045. Link Mauve 404.city, interesting, which client(s?) are you planning to support with money raised by having users?
  1046. Link Mauve Also, did you discuss with the authors of these clients as for whether that’s the best course of action?
  1047. flow has left
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  1050. 404.city Link Mauve,I love talking about the present reality, not about dreams
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  1071. Seve j.r: What's is that account of yours? I'm missing context, sorry :)
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  1076. j.r Seve: you mean @xmpp@mastodon.social ?
  1077. j.r Or what?
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  1126. wurstsalat Wow, I heard about laws for this but I didn't know this was actively enforced: https://monal.im/blog/omemo-and-french-laws/ Does anybody know since when this is the case? Any other countries? Is/was any other client's distribution affected? I'm curious!
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