XSF Discussion - 2019-02-11

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  103. zinid jonas’, http upload (XEP-0363) has LC ended, but it's not reflected in the document
  104. zinid jonas’, is it a known issue?
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  108. jonas’ zinid, yes
  109. jonas’ kind ofg
  110. zinid ofg?
  111. jonas’ kind of
  112. jonas’ I had no weekend and am back at work, don’t have the energy to look into this now
  113. zinid sure, just checking the condition of our xeps :D
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  117. jonas’ I think there is a vote on the LC result pending for council, but I’m not sure
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  127. Guus dwd ^ do you know?
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  132. dwd HTTP upload... I can't recall the current status, but its last call brought up some security issues. I think those have been addressed, but I can't remember if we've done anything since.
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  149. edhelas I'd like to enforce Pubsub nodes to return their access model in their metadata, goffi what do you think ?
  150. edhelas if not it's impossible for a client to know what to do/display when requesting a node
  151. edhelas access_model and publish_model
  152. edhelas it's a small change for 0060 but it will greatly help for the clients to display properly things in their UI
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  155. pep. PR against 0060, see what council says :)
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  157. edhelas will do
  158. Kev While I'm happy for you to work that way if you want, it's a somewhat expensive way of saying "What do you think of the idea?".
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  160. Ge0rG the standard way for ""What do you think of the idea?" is to post to standards@ and not receive any responses, right?
  161. Zash Correct
  162. edhelas :)
  163. Zash No responses, no objections!
  164. Ge0rG Zash: speaking of which. How's the GC1.0 removal going?
  165. Zash Ge0rG: From spec or code?
  166. Ge0rG Zash: from spec
  167. Zash Ge0rG: I did the same thing you did, realized that it was a larger task than initially expected and gave up half-way
  168. Ge0rG Zash: we should have bundled our efforts
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  170. Ge0rG OTOH, it is good to be independently confirmed in my conclusion
  171. Zash We could have given up twice as fast!
  172. Guus I like how we're optimizing failure here!
  173. Seve I prefer to discuss a bit before making a PR, so you know more or less if you are on the right path
  174. Ge0rG Regarding GC1.0, there was a discussion on standards@, and some Council member proclaimed that they wouldn't oppose removing it if it doesn't make things worse.
  175. pep. Seve: the issue is that you often don't get an answer :p
  176. Ge0rG However, this is a very subjective matter. I've come to the conclusion that a MUC treating a presence update as a join and flooding me with message duplicates is worse than being dropped off properly.
  177. Seve Sad
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  182. Zash Seve: Probably because most people don't bother replying with "Meh" or "Sounds fine but I don't really care about this that much"
  183. flow Ge0rG, Zash: If there where a git with the current state of your GC1 removal, people could and probably would collaborate and help (at least I would had a look too)
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  185. Ge0rG flow: that's exactly the problem. We both started at the paragraph first mentioning GC1.0, tried to remove it and realized that it needs to be written from scratch.
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  187. Ge0rG If somebody had started removing the protocol pieces instead, things might move forward faster
  188. flow I am not sure how that problem keeps you from creating a git where people could collaborate?
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  191. flow I would even offer my repo, which would automatically create HTML diffs to the current xep45 version
  192. flow (assuming the html diff tool is able to deal with xep45-sized xeps)
  193. Ge0rG flow [10:50]: > which would automatically create HTML diffs to the current xep45 version Can we have that functionality please? Not as SaaS, but for use everywhere and anywhere?
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  196. Ge0rG flow, Zash: https://github.com/ge0rg/xeps/commit/11bf5c82fba0f46eb6e5560213d508fea4941396 (branch xep0045-kill-gc1)
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  205. Zash Ah right, this problem > Compliant multi-user chat services MUST accept [Groupchat 1.0]
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  209. Ge0rG Zash: prosody 0.11 is incompliant!
  210. flow IIRC there was consensus that it's ok. And while I am a strong supporter of namespace bumps on incompatible changes, I'd also simply remove GC1 without an bump
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  212. Zash flow, Ge0rG: https://github.com/ge0rg/xeps/compare/xep0045-kill-gc1...Zash:xep0045-kill-gc1?expand=1
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  214. Zash excuse the whitespace
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  223. ralphm Zash: you probably should also around some more, because now the first thing you see in the section is the error response.
  224. ralphm should *move* around
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  226. Zash Didn't I move that?
  227. Zash I'm sure I moved that up
  228. Zash runs `git diff`
  229. Zash ah, of course, that's not committed
  230. Zash thanks git
  231. ralphm (and ralphm)
  232. Zash ralphm: thanks
  233. Zash updated the thing
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  255. ralphm Kind wondering: should the id attribute of the error stanza match the original?
  256. ralphm Kinda
  257. ralphm Oh, never mind, the error response doesn't have an example of the original stanza.
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  270. flow Ge0rG, Zash: http://geekplace.eu/xeps/xep-muc-no-gc1/diff-side-by-side.html
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  274. Guus That's a convenient tool! It'd be handy if it had a 'go to next change' action.
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  281. pep. oh wow that's cool
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  285. Seve very nicey
  286. pep. (Also scrolling down MUC takes some time..)
  287. edhelas that's nice yes, could be nice to navigate directly to the changes
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  319. goffi edhelas: I think enforcing would need a namespace bump which is not really possible seing the current "draft" status of XEP-0060, but with a SHOULD instead of a MUST it would be a nice addition. Probably trying to do a PR and see what council say is a good way to move forward.
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  344. Ge0rG flow: that's awesome, at least on a 1920x1080 display :)
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  352. flow now even with colored xml diff for the brave: http://geekplace.eu/xeps/xep-muc-no-gc1/xml-colordiff.html
  353. jonas’ flow, http://geekplace.eu/xeps/xep-muc-no-gc1/diff-side-by-side.html can you make it so that it uses the full screen width?
  354. jonas’ it’s annoying to read even on a large display
  355. flow jonas’, I can do whatever https://github.com/cygri/htmldiff can do
  356. jonas’ I don’t know what htmldiff can do
  357. jonas’ you probably know that better than I do, given that you’ve set it up
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  359. flow The point is that I only use a python tool to generate the diff, and I don't know what the tool can do besides producing the output shown. From a quick look, the answer is probably "no"
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  371. Ge0rG That color diff HTML shows as xml in my browser.
  372. jonas’ Ge0rG, because it’s a color diff of the XML
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  376. Ge0rG I was lured by the .html file ending.
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  378. MattJ Yeah, don't view source on that :)
  379. Ge0rG I just tapped the link 🤷
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  387. flow that is why I wrote "for the brave" :)
  388. flow awaiting your GC1 removal PRs in case you want to collaborate on that
  389. pep. I really wish I could see diffs of the changes, instead of reading the revision history in the XEP and wondering what happened
  390. pep. In the end I'm reading the git version in the xeps repo anyway
  391. Ge0rG pep.: yeah, a rendered diff version, even side-by-side, is a huge help for reviewing PRs
  392. pep. Ge0rG, I meant in the XEPs themselves
  393. Ge0rG pep.: we used to have that
  394. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#appendix-revs this is useless to me
  395. Ge0rG before The Big Crash
  396. pep. I see
  397. Ge0rG We had a renderer that produced an inline-diff based on two revisions of a given XEP
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  399. Ge0rG It used to be like this: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0325/diff/0.2/vs/0.3
  400. Ge0rG flow: how many hours of CPU time does htmldiff consume for 0045?
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  404. Ge0rG Ah! > htmldiff build/xep-0045.master.html build/xep-0045.html > xep-0045.diff.html > 393.65s user 0.12s system 99% cpu 6:33.83 total
  405. moparisthebest fast, efficient
  406. moparisthebest just like you'd expect from python
  407. Zash Ge0rG: And you haven't borrowed Link Mauves toaster?
  408. Ge0rG model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4702MQ CPU @ 2.20GHz
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  410. zinid hardware is cheap nowadays I'm told, just upgrade
  411. Ge0rG It's running on a single core. You can't get cores an order of magnitude faster than that.
  412. Ge0rG And even then it'd still be slow.
  413. zinid do you mean to say that I cannot just by more CPU? o_O That's strange :/
  414. zinid *buy
  415. zinid I'm also told that Python's GIL is not a problem at all
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  417. zinid python taliban is funny
  418. moparisthebest just wait for Link Mauve to rewrite it in Rust :D
  419. Zash WLMRIIR is the new RIIR
  420. moparisthebest it's better because then *we* don't have to do any work
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  422. Ge0rG But it will be full of race conditions!
  423. zinid just lock everything
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  425. Zash Launch 200 instances of the process and accept bets on which will finish first
  426. Ge0rG Launch one on each paragraph.
  427. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/eW2Xm7GsFtjj6AGW/killgc10.html
  428. Zash Not as pretty, but took 2s
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  432. moparisthebest speak of the devil look what someone just sent me :) https://github.com/konchunas/pyrs "Python to Rust transpiler"
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