XSF Discussion - 2019-03-03

  1. jmpman has joined

  2. rtq3 has left

  3. rtq3 has joined

  4. wurstsalat has left

  5. valo has joined

  6. UsL has left

  7. UsL has joined

  8. Kev has joined

  9. j.r has left

  10. arc has left

  11. arc has joined

  12. efrit has joined

  13. lskdjf has left

  14. larma has left

  15. arc has left

  16. arc has joined

  17. debacle has left

  18. ThibG has left

  19. alacer has joined

  20. alacer has left

  21. lskdjf has joined

  22. efrit has left

  23. alacer has joined

  24. alacer has left

  25. lskdjf has left

  26. lskdjf has joined

  27. lskdjf has left

  28. lskdjf has joined

  29. lskdjf has left

  30. lskdjf has joined

  31. lnj has left

  32. Half-ShotX has left

  33. alacer has joined

  34. lskdjf has left

  35. kokonoe has left

  36. kokonoe has joined

  37. jmpman has left

  38. jmpman has joined

  39. wurstsalat has joined

  40. alacer has left

  41. alacer has joined

  42. arc has left

  43. arc has joined

  44. kokonoe has left

  45. kokonoe has joined

  46. arc has left

  47. arc has joined

  48. alacer has left

  49. wurstsalat has left

  50. 404.city has joined

  51. Neustradamus has left

  52. Neustradamus has joined

  53. novnov has joined

  54. Yagiza has joined

  55. larma has joined

  56. Neustradamus has left

  57. Neustradamus has joined

  58. derdaniel has joined

  59. derdaniel has left

  60. derdaniel has joined

  61. derdaniel has left

  62. derdaniel has joined

  63. Neustradamus has left

  64. Neustradamus has joined

  65. derdaniel has left

  66. derdaniel has joined

  67. jmpman has left

  68. derdaniel has left

  69. derdaniel has joined

  70. ThibG has joined

  71. derdaniel has left

  72. derdaniel has joined

  73. goffi has joined

  74. Nekit has joined

  75. oli has joined

  76. 404.city has left

  77. Maranda has left

  78. Maranda has joined

  79. Neustradamus has left

  80. Neustradamus has joined

  81. alacer has joined

  82. jmpman has joined

  83. Neustradamus has left

  84. Neustradamus has joined

  85. 404.city has joined

  86. 404.city has left

  87. Neustradamus has left

  88. Neustradamus has joined

  89. efrit has joined

  90. !xsf_Martin has joined

  91. 404.city has joined

  92. arc has left

  93. arc has joined

  94. lovetox has joined

  95. lskdjf has joined

  96. novnov has left

  97. novnov has joined

  98. arc has left

  99. arc has joined

  100. oli has left

  101. novnov has left

  102. novnov has joined

  103. novnov has left

  104. novnov has joined

  105. blabla has left

  106. frainz has left

  107. lovetox has left

  108. kokonoe has left

  109. kokonoe has joined

  110. jonas’

    I also wanna make a high-level-ish language on top of sed to re-implement the echo bot in that

  111. jonas’

    and then maybe a libc implementation with a shim wrapper around sed to invoke syscalls

  112. alacer has left

  113. vaulor has left

  114. vaulor has joined

  115. ThibG has left

  116. ThibG has joined

  117. debacle has joined

  118. bowlofeggs has left

  119. wurstsalat has joined

  120. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  121. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  122. blabla has joined

  123. alacer has joined

  124. oli has joined

  125. frainz has joined

  126. igoose has left

  127. igoose has joined

  128. Wiktor has left

  129. Wiktor has joined

  130. ta

    Whatever floats your boat.

  131. novnov has left

  132. alacer has left

  133. Nekit has left

  134. alexis has joined

  135. j.r has joined

  136. !xsf_Martin has left

  137. wurstsalat has left

  138. wurstsalat has joined

  139. j.r has left

  140. kokonoe has left

  141. kokonoe has joined

  142. efrit has left

  143. contrapunctus has left

  144. contrapunctus has joined

  145. Half-ShotX has joined

  146. Half-ShotX has left

  147. Half-ShotX has joined

  148. Half-ShotX has left

  149. Half-ShotX has joined

  150. waqas has left

  151. waqas has joined

  152. waqas has left

  153. wurstsalat has left

  154. j.r has joined

  155. Half-ShotX has left

  156. Half-ShotX has joined

  157. lnj has joined

  158. oli has left

  159. Half-ShotX has left

  160. Half-ShotX has joined

  161. Half-ShotX has left

  162. Half-ShotX has joined

  163. jmpman has left

  164. Half-ShotX has left

  165. Half-ShotX has joined

  166. karoshi has joined

  167. Half-ShotX has left

  168. Half-ShotX has joined

  169. jmpman has joined

  170. j.r has left

  171. Half-ShotX has left

  172. j.r has joined

  173. lskdjf has left

  174. lskdjf has joined

  175. mimi89999 has left

  176. rtq3 has left

  177. rtq3 has joined

  178. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  179. oli has joined

  180. mimi89999 has joined

  181. alacer has joined

  182. Tobias has left

  183. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  184. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  185. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  186. Half-ShotX has joined

  187. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  188. Half-ShotX has left

  189. Half-ShotX has joined

  190. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  191. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  192. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  193. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  194. alacer has left

  195. ThibG has left

  196. ThibG has joined

  197. Half-ShotX has left

  198. alacer has joined

  199. lumi has joined

  200. igoose has left

  201. krauq has left

  202. ThibG has left

  203. ThibG has joined

  204. krauq has joined

  205. igoose has joined

  206. kokonoe has left

  207. kokonoe has joined

  208. Neustradamus has left

  209. Neustradamus has joined

  210. Neustradamus has left

  211. Neustradamus has joined

  212. valo has left

  213. Half-ShotX has joined

  214. Half-ShotX has left

  215. ThibG has left

  216. Neustradamus has left

  217. ThibG has joined

  218. Neustradamus has joined

  219. debacle has left

  220. melvo has joined

  221. j.r has left

  222. j.r has joined

  223. alacer has left

  224. Nekit has joined

  225. Half-ShotX has joined

  226. Half-ShotX has left

  227. Half-ShotX has joined

  228. Half-ShotX has left

  229. Tobias has joined

  230. valo has joined

  231. Half-ShotX has joined

  232. Half-ShotX has left

  233. ThibG has left

  234. ThibG has joined

  235. melvo has left

  236. Half-ShotX has joined

  237. 404.city has left

  238. Neustradamus has left

  239. Half-ShotX has left

  240. Half-ShotX has joined

  241. 404.city has joined

  242. Half-ShotX has left

  243. Neustradamus has joined

  244. dele has joined

  245. Maranda has left

  246. Maranda has joined

  247. valo has left

  248. valo has joined

  249. karoshi has left

  250. karoshi has joined

  251. rtq3 has left

  252. rtq3 has joined

  253. bowlofeggs has joined

  254. yvo has joined

  255. waqas has joined

  256. waqas has left

  257. efrit has joined

  258. waqas has joined

  259. j.r has left

  260. j.r has joined

  261. Nekit has left

  262. Nekit has joined

  263. kokonoe has left

  264. mimi89999 has left

  265. efrit has left

  266. kokonoe has joined

  267. moparisthebest has left

  268. valo has left

  269. yvo has left

  270. valo has joined

  271. lumi has left

  272. Neustradamus has left

  273. !xsf_Martin has joined

  274. !xsf_Martin has left

  275. Neustradamus has joined

  276. !xsf_Martin has joined

  277. !xsf_Martin has left

  278. !xsf_Martin has joined

  279. !xsf_Martin has left

  280. !xsf_Martin has joined

  281. moparisthebest has joined

  282. jmpman has left

  283. !xsf_Martin has left

  284. Alex has left

  285. vaulor has left

  286. vaulor has joined

  287. Alex has joined

  288. 404.city has left

  289. 404.city has joined

  290. 404.city has left

  291. Nekit has left

  292. Nekit has joined

  293. oli has left

  294. Neustradamus has left

  295. Neustradamus has joined

  296. Nekit has left

  297. mimi89999 has joined

  298. rtq3 has left

  299. rtq3 has joined

  300. j.r has left

  301. j.r has joined

  302. Half-ShotX has joined

  303. lorddavidiii has joined

  304. debacle has joined

  305. debacle has left

  306. lovetox has joined

  307. Yagiza has left

  308. alexis has left

  309. edhelas has left

  310. j.r has left

  311. j.r has joined

  312. alacer has joined

  313. alacer has left

  314. edhelas has joined

  315. dele has left

  316. melvo has joined

  317. oli has joined

  318. j.r has left

  319. j.r has joined

  320. lorddavidiii has left

  321. Nekit has joined

  322. Half-ShotX has left

  323. rtq3 has left

  324. rtq3 has joined

  325. alacer has joined

  326. Half-ShotX has joined

  327. Half-ShotX has left

  328. Neustradamus has left

  329. arc has left

  330. arc has joined

  331. Neustradamus has joined

  332. alacer has left

  333. oli has left

  334. Neustradamus has left

  335. Neustradamus has joined

  336. blabla has left

  337. blabla has joined

  338. oli has joined

  339. ThibG has left

  340. ThibG has joined

  341. Kev has left

  342. tux has left

  343. tux has joined

  344. wurstsalat has joined

  345. lorddavidiii has joined

  346. debacle has joined

  347. Kev has joined

  348. Link Mauve

    Hi, for people who have read/written MIX, what is the story with user PEP?

  349. j.r has left

  350. moparisthebest has left

  351. j.r has joined

  352. Link Mauve

    If I join a MIX channel and want to obtain e.g. the User Tune of all members, will the MIX service subscribe to everything I have a +notify for, or does it rely on the participants explicitly publishing their User Tune to each MIX channel they’re in?

  353. rtq3 has left

  354. rtq3 has joined

  355. Steve Kille

    My basic model is that the primary goal of MIX sharing of participant info is to share who are the participants. With JID hidden, this is typically going to be minimal information. With JIDs shared, I see that sharing further info can go directly, and should not be involving the MIX channel.

  356. j.r has left

  357. j.r has joined

  358. Link Mauve

    So in my case, a participant interested in the User Tune of each other participant should subscribe manually to all of them?

  359. Link Mauve

    Or retrieve it as the user scrolls in the list, or something like that, depending on the UI of the client.

  360. Kev

    I've been assuming that the server can straightforwardly proxy PEP, but I might be being naive.

  361. Kev

    Well, semi-straightforwardly.

  362. Link Mauve

    Would PAM imply that the MIX channel is auto-subscribed to all PEP items?

  363. Link Mauve

    Or something like that.

  364. Kev

    That was my assumption.

  365. Link Mauve

    Great, thanks.

  366. Link Mauve

    PEP nodes*

  367. Kev

    Details TBC.

  368. zinid

    Link Mauve: are you implementing mix?

  369. Link Mauve

    zinid, I’m actually thinking about PEP proxying for MUC.

  370. zinid

    Link Mauve: ah

  371. Link Mauve


  372. Link Mauve

    Details TBC too, I’m just playing with a poc.

  373. zinid

    whatever, I decided to stop fiddling with muc in ejabberd and focus on mix

  374. zinid

    fiddling with both is too taxing

  375. Link Mauve

    It was prompted by https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/760 and the idea to finally deprecate 0153.

  376. zinid

    I know the idea

  377. lumi has joined

  378. Link Mauve

    I’m trying to see if it’s viable before I push this PR to standards@.

  379. zinid

    Link Mauve: well, the council decided to start the discussion 😁

  380. zinid

    before voting

  381. Link Mauve


  382. zinid

    I am honestly not sure why are you worried about it so much 🤔

  383. zinid

    I am honestly not sure why you are worried about it so much 🤔

  384. bowlofeggs has left

  385. zinid

    I really don't like the situation when we cannot decide where to move, we will end up with incompatible implementations

  386. j.r has left

  387. j.r has joined

  388. Link Mauve

    Yeah, I guess I could just send my proposal instead.

  389. zinid

    either we continue muc necromancy or focus on mix.

  390. Link Mauve

    I’m fine with both so far.

  391. Link Mauve

    With a slight preference towards fixing what we have.

  392. Kev has left

  393. arc has left

  394. arc has joined

  395. melvo has left

  396. rtq3 has left

  397. rtq3 has joined

  398. zinid

    well, I am not 😀

  399. kokonoe has left

  400. Link Mauve

    Neither clients nor servers will be able to go MIX-only for quite a while, even if all implementations got MIX support today.

  401. Link Mauve

    So, fixing MUC will be useful during the transition period anyway.

  402. kokonoe has joined

  403. zinid

    > Neither clients nor servers will be able to go MIX-only for quite a while, even if all implementations got MIX support today. True. My approach in ejabberd is to implement very tiny muc subset above the mix code. Like joining/leaving and message sending.

  404. Link Mauve

    Only that? :/

  405. pep.

    And then tell users MUC is bad because you implement only 3% ? :P

  406. zinid

    Link Mauve: I didn't decide what exactly to implement.

  407. zinid


  408. zinid

    I just want to make sure the chat is usable in at least popular clients.

  409. zinid

    configuration/moderation won't be supported for sure

  410. Link Mauve

    zinid, is your current MUC code not reusable at all?

  411. zinid

    Link Mauve: no, it's total garbage

  412. Link Mauve

    zinid, sounds pretty bad. :x

  413. zinid

    and strictly speaking it's not my code 😋

  414. Link Mauve

    zinid, “your” as in Ejabberd’s. :p

  415. zinid

    I only patched that trash

  416. zinid

    Link Mauve: I mean technically I didn't write it

  417. Link Mauve

    Prosody recently got a rewrite of its MUC code, it now is very easy to extend and could maybe become the basis of some kind of MIX.

  418. Link Mauve

    But I have yet to read a recent version. :x

  419. zinid

    Link Mauve: yes, but I don't want to rewrite it. this was the basic dilemma for me: either rewrite it or go mix.

  420. Link Mauve


  421. Link Mauve

    That’s sensible.

  422. alexis has joined

  423. j.r has left

  424. j.r has joined

  425. lorddavidiii has left

  426. tux has left

  427. Nekit has left

  428. igoose has left

  429. igoose has joined

  430. melvo has joined

  431. tux has joined

  432. karoshi has left

  433. moparisthebest has joined

  434. rtq3 has left

  435. alexis has left

  436. alexis has joined

  437. lovetox has left

  438. lnj has left

  439. bowlofeggs has joined

  440. moparisthebest has left

  441. moparisthebest has joined

  442. ta has left

  443. ta has joined

  444. rtq3 has joined

  445. goffi has left

  446. alexis has left

  447. alexis has joined

  448. melvo has left

  449. ThibG has left

  450. ThibG has joined

  451. kokonoe has left

  452. kokonoe has joined

  453. alexis has left

  454. alexis has joined

  455. moparisthebest has left

  456. moparisthebest has joined

  457. efrit has joined

  458. yvo has joined

  459. alexis has left

  460. yvo has left

  461. neshtaxmpp has left

  462. neshtaxmpp has joined