XSF Discussion - 2019-03-03

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09:06:52 jonas’ I also wanna make a high-level-ish language on top of sed to re-implement the echo bot in that
09:07:06 jonas’ and then maybe a libc implementation with a shim wrapper around sed to invoke syscalls
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09:57:45 ta Whatever floats your boat.
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21:06:05 Link Mauve Hi, for people who have read/written MIX, what is the story with user PEP?
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21:07:49 Link Mauve If I join a MIX channel and want to obtain e.g. the User Tune of all members, will the MIX service subscribe to everything I have a +notify for, or does it rely on the participants explicitly publishing their User Tune to each MIX channel they’re in?
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21:12:08 Steve Kille My basic model is that the primary goal of MIX sharing of participant info is to share who are the participants. With JID hidden, this is typically going to be minimal information. With JIDs shared, I see that sharing further info can go directly, and should not be involving the MIX channel.
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21:13:21 Link Mauve So in my case, a participant interested in the User Tune of each other participant should subscribe manually to all of them?
21:13:39 Link Mauve Or retrieve it as the user scrolls in the list, or something like that, depending on the UI of the client.
21:17:50 Kev I've been assuming that the server can straightforwardly proxy PEP, but I might be being naive.
21:18:06 Kev Well, semi-straightforwardly.
21:19:09 Link Mauve Would PAM imply that the MIX channel is auto-subscribed to all PEP items?
21:19:15 Link Mauve Or something like that.
21:19:28 Kev That was my assumption.
21:19:37 Link Mauve Great, thanks.
21:19:50 Link Mauve PEP nodes*
21:19:54 Kev Details TBC.
21:19:58 zinid Link Mauve: are you implementing mix?
21:20:14 Link Mauve zinid, I’m actually thinking about PEP proxying for MUC.
21:20:28 zinid Link Mauve: ah
21:20:29 Link Mauve Somehow.
21:20:49 Link Mauve Details TBC too, I’m just playing with a poc.
21:21:26 zinid whatever, I decided to stop fiddling with muc in ejabberd and focus on mix
21:21:40 zinid fiddling with both is too taxing
21:21:47 Link Mauve It was prompted by https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/760 and the idea to finally deprecate 0153.
21:22:05 zinid I know the idea
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21:22:42 Link Mauve I’m trying to see if it’s viable before I push this PR to standards@.
21:23:10 zinid Link Mauve: well, the council decided to start the discussion 😁
21:23:21 zinid before voting
21:23:25 Link Mauve Yes.
21:24:09 zinid ~~I am honestly not sure why are you worried about it so much 🤔~~ ✎
21:24:27 zinid I am honestly not sure why you are worried about it so much 🤔 ✏
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21:25:45 zinid I really don't like the situation when we cannot decide where to move, we will end up with incompatible implementations
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21:26:30 Link Mauve Yeah, I guess I could just send my proposal instead.
21:29:01 zinid either we continue muc necromancy or focus on mix.
21:29:33 Link Mauve I’m fine with both so far.
21:29:49 Link Mauve With a slight preference towards fixing what we have.
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21:40:20 zinid well, I am not 😀
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21:41:22 Link Mauve Neither clients nor servers will be able to go MIX-only for quite a while, even if all implementations got MIX support today.
21:41:51 Link Mauve So, fixing MUC will be useful during the transition period anyway.
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21:46:21 zinid > Neither clients nor servers will be able to go MIX-only for quite a while, even if all implementations got MIX support today. True. My approach in ejabberd is to implement very tiny muc subset above the mix code. Like joining/leaving and message sending.
21:46:52 Link Mauve Only that? :/
21:46:56 pep. And then tell users MUC is bad because you implement only 3% ? :P
21:47:42 zinid Link Mauve: I didn't decide what exactly to implement.
21:47:50 zinid yet
21:48:40 zinid I just want to make sure the chat is usable in at least popular clients.
21:49:00 zinid configuration/moderation won't be supported for sure
21:49:47 Link Mauve zinid, is your current MUC code not reusable at all?
21:50:05 zinid Link Mauve: no, it's total garbage
21:50:05 Link Mauve zinid, sounds pretty bad. :x
21:50:42 zinid and strictly speaking it's not my code 😋
21:51:01 Link Mauve zinid, “your” as in Ejabberd’s. :p
21:51:01 zinid I only patched that trash
21:51:17 zinid Link Mauve: I mean technically I didn't write it
21:51:49 Link Mauve Prosody recently got a rewrite of its MUC code, it now is very easy to extend and could maybe become the basis of some kind of MIX.
21:52:06 Link Mauve But I have yet to read a recent version. :x
21:52:41 zinid Link Mauve: yes, but I don't want to rewrite it. this was the basic dilemma for me: either rewrite it or go mix.
21:52:57 Link Mauve Ok.
21:53:03 Link Mauve That’s sensible.
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