XSF Discussion - 2019-03-15

  1. karoshi has left

  2. debacle has left

  3. lumi has left

  4. moparisthebest has left

  5. moparisthebest has joined

  6. UsL has left

  7. UsL has joined

  8. moparisthebest has left

  9. moparisthebest has joined

  10. rtq3 has left

  11. waqas has joined

  12. bowlofeggs has left

  13. bowlofeggs has joined

  14. kokonoe has left

  15. kokonoe has joined

  16. pep. has left

  17. pep. has joined

  18. larma has left

  19. lskdjf has left

  20. goffi has left

  21. Yagiza has joined

  22. wurstsalat has left

  23. ThibG has left

  24. ThibG has joined

  25. Lance has joined

  26. Nekit has joined

  27. pep. has left

  28. pep. has joined

  29. Lance has left

  30. j.r has left

  31. oli has joined

  32. alacer has left

  33. alacer has joined

  34. alacer has left

  35. alacer has joined

  36. waqas has left

  37. kokonoe has left

  38. waqas has joined

  39. kokonoe has joined

  40. alacer has left

  41. alacer has joined

  42. lorddavidiii has joined

  43. waqas has left

  44. oli has left

  45. oli has joined

  46. j.r has joined

  47. oli has left

  48. oli has joined

  49. contrapunctus has left

  50. lorddavidiii has left

  51. igoose has left

  52. arc has left

  53. arc has joined

  54. rtq3 has joined

  55. lorddavidiii has joined

  56. lance@lance.im has joined

  57. igoose has joined

  58. alacer has left

  59. alacer has joined

  60. lnj has left

  61. arc has left

  62. lance@lance.im has left

  63. kokonoe has left

  64. arc has joined

  65. kokonoe has joined

  66. igoose has left

  67. andy has joined

  68. igoose has joined

  69. Dele Olajide has joined

  70. karoshi has joined

  71. rtq3 has left

  72. rtq3 has joined

  73. vaulor has left

  74. vaulor has joined

  75. alameyo has left

  76. alameyo has joined

  77. oli has left

  78. oli has joined

  79. alameyo has left

  80. Wiktor has left

  81. Wiktor has joined

  82. alameyo has joined

  83. goffi has joined

  84. kokonoe has left

  85. kokonoe has joined

  86. alameyo has left

  87. alameyo has joined

  88. Steve Kille has left

  89. rtq3 has left

  90. alameyo has left

  91. Steve Kille has joined

  92. vaulor has left

  93. vaulor has joined

  94. Guus

    Seve, this was your idea? https://trello.com/c/3TyQIUUq/335-post-an-unpaid-job-for-compliance-badges-at-osd

  95. Guus

    I'm not sure if we actually need to discuss it.

  96. Guus

    Just do it?

  97. tux has left

  98. Guus

    We already agreed to find a designer to volunteer for this. Sadly, nyco's first choice fell through, but that should require us to re-discuss finding someone else.

  99. Kev


  100. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  101. Guus


  102. ralphm


  103. ralphm

    And yes

  104. Guus

    We already agreed to find a designer to volunteer for this. Sadly, nyco's first choice fell through, but that should not require us to re-discuss finding someone else.

  105. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  106. Guus is off to find more coffee.

  107. Guus

    It's odd that I often make errors with regard to negation (missing 'not'). That happens to me in writing as well as in code.

  108. ralphm

    Anyway 3 is quorum

  109. mtavares

    Guus: don't use the not. :)

  110. Seve

    Guus: that's because you are very positive!

  111. mtavares

    boolean algebra is always fun.. specially when dealing with one of those business if conditions for special cases with 10 or more clauses.

  112. Guus

    > Guus: don't use the not. πŸ™‚ My kids would agree with you.

  113. mtavares

    Guus, don't your kids keep saying no to you too? 'cause mine sure does and he's only 2. I don't think it will improve with age.

  114. Guus

    Them telling me 'no' has less impact for them than me telling them 'no' πŸ™‚

  115. Guus

    but you're right πŸ™‚

  116. mtavares

    :) whish I wasn't.

  117. Guus

    My three year old the other day: "Mommy, I have a great idea and you cannot say no!"

  118. Guus


  119. alameyo has joined

  120. Guus

    (the 'great idea' was candy-related)

  121. Kev

    As all great ideas are.

  122. mtavares


  123. mtavares

    had to deal with a trantum yesterday because dinner was not candy. :/

  124. Guus

    hehe. You'll learn to get more creative with that over time. My sister got her kids to eat burritos by starting to refer to them as 'mexican pancakes'.

  125. frainz has left

  126. frainz has joined

  127. mtavares

    and broccoli are trees. :)

  128. ralphm

    mtavares: what about tertiary logic?

  129. blabla has left

  130. mtavares

    ralphm, what do you mean?

  131. ralphm


  132. mtavares

    but how do you use that with kids? two values based logic is alreay hard to explain..

  133. ralphm

    But kids will invariably not accept just two values.

  134. blabla has joined

  135. Guus

    which is a good base for outside-the-box-thinking.

  136. Guus

    When offered a choice, go for the unnamed option. πŸ™‚

  137. yon has left

  138. ralphm


  139. ralphm


  140. alameyo has left

  141. alameyo has joined

  142. mtavares

    :) will try that.

  143. alameyo has left

  144. Dele Olajide has left

  145. Dele Olajide has joined

  146. alameyo has joined

  147. yon has joined

  148. alameyo has left

  149. alameyo has joined

  150. rtq3 has joined

  151. alameyo has left

  152. alameyo has joined

  153. larma has joined

  154. larma has left

  155. lumi has joined

  156. rtq3 has left

  157. alameyo has left

  158. alameyo has joined

  159. debacle has joined

  160. larma has joined

  161. alameyo has left

  162. Ge0rG

    We've been optimizing for the wrong use cases all along... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/hottest-chat-app-teens-google-docs/584857/

  163. Ge0rG

    I've been passing diskettes with text files to my school mates back in 1996. History seems to repeat itself.

  164. alameyo has joined

  165. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  166. alameyo has left

  167. alameyo has joined

  168. ThibG has left

  169. ThibG has joined

  170. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  171. alameyo has left

  172. Seve

    Guus, would it make sense to have another list in trello like 'To take action' or something? Like a to-do list, I wanted to add the unpaid job for the badges somewhere so I know I have to do it :D

  173. ralphm

    Seve: like Commitment for week ahead?

  174. ralphm

    Although there is an item on it for jonas’, and has been for weeks now :-_

  175. ralphm


  176. Seve

    ralphm, that's why I was not sure haha

  177. Seve

    Ok, will move it there, ralphm. Thanks

  178. ralphm

    Maybe we should just rename it to 'Commitments'

  179. Seve

    Sounds good!

  180. Andrew Nenakhov

    On that Google docs chat: too bad Wave died. I liked it a lot.

  181. Seve

    Me too! Too bad I didn't have an excuse to use it, but I liked it so much.

  182. Zash

    Nice tombstone it got tho http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wave.html

  183. 404.city has joined

  184. alameyo has joined

  185. Ge0rG

    https://killedbygoogle.com/ would be the better tombstone reference

  186. ralphm

    Andrew Nenakhov: did you like the operational transforms or its XMPP interface?

  187. Zash

    Who looked at the Wawe protocol other than me?

  188. ralphm

    Me, around the Let's Federate this meeting at Google HQ, timed to coincide with OSCon and the XMPP Summit there.

  189. ralphm

    Got the t-shirt. Were a bunch of there.

  190. ralphm

    I was not impressed with the protocol.

  191. ralphm

    But it was really just one guy on that.

  192. Zash

    It's a pretty good argument for the actual wire protocol not mattering all that much for the end user experience.

  193. Andrew Nenakhov

    ralphm, I liked how it worked. We used it for great results while developing new specifications. Currently, for example, we use Google docs to work on our protocols, and comments there kinda lacking. Wave would be better. But the downside is that to not get the wave cluttered you need a disciplined team who all agree to follow some guidelines, like not flood on topmost level of wave

  194. lskdjf has joined

  195. Andrew Nenakhov

    Didn't really look at the protocol. I got an impression that it's modified XMPP and uses basic same stanza concept

  196. alacer has left

  197. debacle has left

  198. alacer has joined

  199. wurstsalat has joined

  200. kokonoe has left

  201. kokonoe has joined

  202. alacer has left

  203. Yagiza has left

  204. alacer has joined

  205. alacer has left

  206. Yagiza has joined

  207. alacer has joined

  208. rtq3 has joined

  209. Half-ShotX has joined

  210. Half-ShotX has left

  211. Half-ShotX has joined

  212. alacer has left

  213. alameyo has left

  214. alameyo has joined

  215. alameyo has left

  216. 404.city has left

  217. Half-ShotX has left

  218. Half-ShotX has joined

  219. debacle has joined

  220. Half-ShotX has left

  221. ThibG has left

  222. ThibG has joined

  223. Half-ShotX has joined

  224. rtq3 has left

  225. rtq3 has joined

  226. Half-ShotX has left

  227. efrit has joined

  228. bowlofeggs has left

  229. Half-ShotX has joined

  230. Dele Olajide has left

  231. bowlofeggs has joined

  232. Dele Olajide has joined

  233. Half-ShotX has left

  234. Half-ShotX has joined

  235. j.r has left

  236. ralphm


  237. ralphm

    So based on XMPP PubSub, but weirdly. E.g. the notification events don't seem to have a node attribute.

  238. rtq3 has left

  239. Zash

    You could argue that the node is nil or the empty string...

  240. Half-ShotX has left

  241. Half-ShotX has joined

  242. Zash

    PubSub event notificationts with receipts?

  243. Half-ShotX has left

  244. ralphm

    The only way to have no node attribute in notifications, is if you use the concept of Collections. Then this would come from the so-called root node.

  245. ralphm

    However, that'd also require SHIM headers to be present.

  246. ralphm

    So that you know which actual leaf node the notification was for, and to disambiguate different types of payload. I.e. the same node cannot have items with payloads of which the main element have different namespaces.

  247. Zash

    I think there once was a discussion about what it meant to have node="" vs no node attribute, although in the context of XEP 30.

  248. oli has left

  249. ralphm

    And then there's the weird request response semantics that they grafted onto this.

  250. efrit has left

  251. ralphm

    Zash: well, there should be no difference.

  252. tux has joined

  253. Half-ShotX has joined

  254. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  255. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  256. vanitasvitae has left

  257. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  258. lorddavidiii has left

  259. alameyo has joined

  260. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  261. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  262. vanitasvitae has joined

  263. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  264. Half-ShotX has left

  265. lumi has left

  266. Half-ShotX has joined

  267. lumi has joined

  268. Half-ShotX has left

  269. Half-ShotX has joined

  270. j.r has joined

  271. Half-ShotX has left

  272. alameyo has left

  273. alameyo has joined

  274. Half-ShotX has joined

  275. yvo has joined

  276. alameyo has left

  277. lnj has joined

  278. lumi has left

  279. lumi has joined

  280. neshtaxmpp has left

  281. neshtaxmpp has joined

  282. Half-ShotX has left

  283. Half-ShotX has joined

  284. Half-ShotX has left

  285. lnj has left

  286. Half-ShotX has joined

  287. alameyo has joined

  288. lnj has joined

  289. rtq3 has joined

  290. Half-ShotX has left

  291. Half-ShotX has joined

  292. alameyo has left

  293. alameyo has joined

  294. waqas has joined

  295. waqas has left

  296. alameyo has left

  297. lovetox has joined

  298. lumi has left

  299. kokonoe has left

  300. lumi has joined

  301. kokonoe has joined

  302. alameyo has joined

  303. m has joined

  304. lnj has left

  305. Half-ShotX has left

  306. Half-ShotX has joined

  307. ThibG has left

  308. ThibG has joined

  309. Half-ShotX has left

  310. j.r has left

  311. Half-ShotX has joined

  312. tux has left

  313. krauq has left

  314. j.r has joined

  315. alacer has joined

  316. Half-ShotX has left

  317. Half-ShotX has joined

  318. ThibG has left

  319. ThibG has joined

  320. m has left

  321. j.r has left

  322. ThibG has left

  323. ThibG has joined

  324. Yagiza has left

  325. Yagiza has joined

  326. ThibG has left

  327. Half-ShotX has left

  328. Half-ShotX has joined

  329. ThibG has joined

  330. j.r has joined

  331. alameyo has left

  332. alameyo has joined

  333. alameyo has left

  334. Half-ShotX has left

  335. andy has left

  336. ThibG has left

  337. ThibG has joined

  338. Half-ShotX has joined

  339. Half-ShotX has left

  340. Half-ShotX has joined

  341. Half-ShotX has left

  342. krauq has joined

  343. Half-ShotX has joined

  344. wurstsalat has left

  345. Half-ShotX has left

  346. alameyo has joined

  347. kokonoe has left

  348. Half-ShotX has joined

  349. kokonoe has joined

  350. Half-ShotX has left

  351. arc has left

  352. ThibG has left

  353. ThibG has joined

  354. Half-ShotX has joined

  355. arc has joined

  356. Half-ShotX has left

  357. Half-ShotX has joined

  358. Half-ShotX has left

  359. Half-ShotX has joined

  360. Half-ShotX has left

  361. Half-ShotX has joined

  362. Half-ShotX has left

  363. arc has left

  364. arc has joined

  365. alameyo has left

  366. alameyo has joined

  367. alameyo has left

  368. ThibG has left

  369. ThibG has joined

  370. Half-ShotX has joined

  371. ThibG has left

  372. ThibG has joined

  373. lnj has joined

  374. waqas has joined

  375. waqas has left

  376. !xsf_Martin has joined

  377. !xsf_Martin has left

  378. alameyo has joined

  379. !xsf_Martin has joined

  380. Half-ShotX has left

  381. Half-ShotX has joined

  382. waqas has joined

  383. Dele Olajide has left

  384. oli has joined

  385. Half-ShotX has left

  386. Half-ShotX has joined

  387. Dele Olajide has joined

  388. Half-ShotX has left

  389. contrapunctus has joined

  390. Half-ShotX has joined

  391. blabla has left

  392. blabla has joined

  393. UsL has left

  394. UsL has joined

  395. Half-ShotX has left

  396. Half-ShotX has joined

  397. !xsf_Martin has left

  398. alameyo has left

  399. alameyo has joined

  400. alameyo has left

  401. Half-ShotX has left

  402. Half-ShotX has joined

  403. !xsf_Martin has joined

  404. Half-ShotX has left

  405. Half-ShotX has joined

  406. Half-ShotX has left

  407. Half-ShotX has joined

  408. frainz has left

  409. frainz has joined

  410. Half-ShotX has left

  411. Half-ShotX has joined

  412. rtq3 has left

  413. rtq3 has joined

  414. Half-ShotX has left

  415. Yagiza has left

  416. tux has joined

  417. tux has left

  418. Nekit has left

  419. Nekit has joined

  420. Half-ShotX has joined

  421. arc has left

  422. arc has joined

  423. Half-ShotX has left

  424. Steve Kille has left

  425. Half-ShotX has joined

  426. Half-ShotX has left

  427. Dele Olajide has left

  428. Steve Kille has joined

  429. Half-ShotX has joined

  430. Half-ShotX has left

  431. alameyo has joined

  432. Half-ShotX has joined

  433. Dele Olajide has joined

  434. Half-ShotX has left

  435. Half-ShotX has joined

  436. Dele Olajide has left

  437. Half-ShotX has left

  438. Half-ShotX has joined

  439. 404.city has joined

  440. 404.city has left

  441. Half-ShotX has left

  442. Half-ShotX has joined

  443. tux has joined

  444. Half-ShotX has left

  445. Half-ShotX has joined

  446. oli has left

  447. oli has joined

  448. oli has left

  449. Half-ShotX has left

  450. oli has joined

  451. Half-ShotX has joined

  452. Wojtek has joined

  453. oli has left

  454. oli has joined

  455. Half-ShotX has left

  456. oli has left

  457. oli has joined

  458. Half-ShotX has joined

  459. Half-ShotX has left

  460. Half-ShotX has joined

  461. Half-ShotX has left

  462. oli has left

  463. oli has joined

  464. Half-ShotX has joined

  465. Half-ShotX has left

  466. benpa has left

  467. Matthew has left

  468. Half-Shot has left

  469. uhoreg has left

  470. benpa has joined

  471. uhoreg has joined

  472. Half-Shot has joined

  473. Matthew has joined

  474. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  475. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  476. Half-ShotX has joined

  477. tux has left

  478. Half-ShotX has left

  479. Half-ShotX has joined

  480. Half-ShotX has left

  481. blabla has left

  482. j.r has left

  483. j.r has joined

  484. lorddavidiii has joined

  485. m has joined

  486. j.r has left

  487. j.r has joined

  488. fippo has joined

  489. fippo

    can someone check the standards@ moderation queue please? looking for a message from someone with implementation feedback about xep-0353 (-:

  490. ralphm

    That you has been sent? I did see your message earlier this week.

  491. ralphm

    That you know has been sent?

  492. fippo

    ralphm: no, someone from genesys. copied me on it so i got it but it didn't show up in the archives

  493. lance@lance.im has joined

  494. ralphm

    That's the company that does customer-chat stuff, right?

  495. fippo

    callcenters. lance was also cc'd

  496. Half-ShotX has joined

  497. ralphm

    Indeed haven't seen a message to that end. Kev? intosi?

  498. oli has left

  499. oli has joined

  500. oli has left

  501. oli has joined

  502. oli has left

  503. oli has joined

  504. Half-ShotX has left

  505. moparisthebest has left

  506. oli has left

  507. oli has joined

  508. Half-ShotX has joined

  509. lance@lance.im has left

  510. m has left

  511. frainz has left

  512. karoshi has left

  513. karoshi has joined

  514. frainz has joined

  515. Half-ShotX has left

  516. Half-ShotX has joined

  517. moparisthebest has joined

  518. karoshi has left

  519. frainz has left

  520. karoshi has joined

  521. frainz has joined

  522. lorddavidiii has left

  523. Half-ShotX has left

  524. Half-ShotX has joined

  525. Half-ShotX has left

  526. lovetox has left

  527. lovetox has joined

  528. lovetox has left

  529. lovetox has joined

  530. Half-ShotX has joined

  531. lorddavidiii has joined

  532. arc has left

  533. waqas has left

  534. waqas has joined

  535. arc has joined

  536. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  537. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  538. Half-ShotX has left

  539. Half-ShotX has joined

  540. j.r has left

  541. Andrew Nenakhov has left

  542. Andrew Nenakhov has joined

  543. Half-ShotX has left

  544. frainz has left

  545. blabla has joined

  546. frainz has joined

  547. ThibG has left

  548. ThibG has joined

  549. j.r has joined

  550. Half-ShotX has joined

  551. igoose has left

  552. igoose has joined

  553. moparisthebest has left

  554. Half-ShotX has left

  555. Half-ShotX has joined

  556. Half-ShotX has left

  557. Half-ShotX has joined

  558. !xsf_Martin has left

  559. !xsf_Martin has joined

  560. Half-ShotX has left

  561. rtq3 has left

  562. rtq3 has joined

  563. lance@lance.im has joined

  564. Half-ShotX has joined

  565. ThibG has left

  566. ThibG has joined

  567. Half-ShotX has left

  568. j.r has left

  569. j.r has joined

  570. yvo has left

  571. moparisthebest has joined

  572. Half-ShotX has joined

  573. lorddavidiii has left

  574. Half-ShotX has left

  575. Half-ShotX has joined

  576. debacle has left

  577. Half-ShotX has left

  578. Half-ShotX has joined

  579. Half-ShotX has left

  580. Half-ShotX has joined

  581. arc has left

  582. arc has joined

  583. lnj has left

  584. pep. has left

  585. pep. has joined

  586. Half-ShotX has left

  587. Half-ShotX has joined

  588. lorddavidiii has joined

  589. lance@lance.im has left

  590. !xsf_Martin has left

  591. Half-ShotX has left

  592. lorddavidiii has left

  593. sezuan has joined

  594. Half-ShotX has joined

  595. sezuan has left

  596. sezuan has joined

  597. ThibG has left

  598. ThibG has joined

  599. sezuan has left

  600. sezuan has joined

  601. rtq3 has left

  602. rtq3 has joined

  603. sezuan has left

  604. debacle has joined

  605. arc has left

  606. arc has joined

  607. Half-ShotX has left

  608. Half-ShotX has joined

  609. alacer has left

  610. rtq3 has left

  611. blabla has left

  612. Half-ShotX has left

  613. Half-ShotX has joined

  614. blabla has joined

  615. Nekit has left

  616. Half-ShotX has left

  617. Half-ShotX has joined

  618. arc has left

  619. arc has joined

  620. alacer has joined

  621. Half-ShotX has left

  622. Half-ShotX has joined

  623. alacer has left

  624. dwd has left

  625. Half-ShotX has left

  626. lorddavidiii has joined

  627. vaulor has left

  628. vaulor has joined

  629. ta has left

  630. Half-ShotX has joined

  631. lumi has left

  632. lumi has joined

  633. Half-ShotX has left

  634. Half-ShotX has joined

  635. oli has left

  636. blabla has left

  637. Half-ShotX has left

  638. blabla has joined

  639. lorddavidiii has left

  640. ta has joined

  641. Half-ShotX has joined

  642. Half-ShotX has left

  643. Half-ShotX has joined

  644. debacle has left

  645. Half-ShotX has left

  646. Half-ShotX has joined

  647. Half-ShotX has left

  648. lance@lance.im has joined