XSF Discussion - 2019-03-15

Seve, this was your idea? https://trello.com/c/3TyQIUUq/335-post-an-unpaid-job-for-compliance-badges-at-osd

I'm not sure if we actually need to discuss it.

Just do it?

We already agreed to find a designer to volunteer for this. Sadly, nyco's first choice fell through, but that should require us to re-discuss finding someone else.

+not?

*facepalm*

Haha

And yes

We already agreed to find a designer to volunteer for this. Sadly, nyco's first choice fell through, but that should not require us to re-discuss finding someone else.

It's odd that I often make errors with regard to negation (missing 'not'). That happens to me in writing as well as in code.

Anyway 3 is quorum

Guus: don't use the not. :)

Guus: that's because you are very positive!

boolean algebra is always fun.. specially when dealing with one of those business if conditions for special cases with 10 or more clauses.

> Guus: don't use the not. 🙂 My kids would agree with you.

Guus, don't your kids keep saying no to you too? 'cause mine sure does and he's only 2. I don't think it will improve with age.

Them telling me 'no' has less impact for them than me telling them 'no' 🙂

but you're right 🙂

:) whish I wasn't.

My three year old the other day: "Mommy, I have a great idea and you cannot say no!"

😍

(the 'great idea' was candy-related)

As all great ideas are.

lol

had to deal with a trantum yesterday because dinner was not candy. :/

hehe. You'll learn to get more creative with that over time. My sister got her kids to eat burritos by starting to refer to them as 'mexican pancakes'.

and broccoli are trees. :)

mtavares: what about tertiary logic?

ralphm, what do you mean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-valued_logic

but how do you use that with kids? two values based logic is alreay hard to explain..

But kids will invariably not accept just two values.

which is a good base for outside-the-box-thinking.

When offered a choice, go for the unnamed option. 🙂

informative_utterances_Lack_of_competence_or_Pragmatic_Tolerance

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328385759_Why_some_children_accept_under-informative_utterances_Lack_of_competence_or_Pragmatic_Tolerance

:) will try that.

We've been optimizing for the wrong use cases all along... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/hottest-chat-app-teens-google-docs/584857/

I've been passing diskettes with text files to my school mates back in 1996. History seems to repeat itself.

Guus, would it make sense to have another list in trello like 'To take action' or something? Like a to-do list, I wanted to add the unpaid job for the badges somewhere so I know I have to do it :D

Seve: like Commitment for week ahead?

Although there is an item on it for jonas’, and has been for weeks now :-_

:-)

ralphm, that's why I was not sure haha

Ok, will move it there, ralphm. Thanks

Maybe we should just rename it to 'Commitments'

Sounds good!

On that Google docs chat: too bad Wave died. I liked it a lot.

Me too! Too bad I didn't have an excuse to use it, but I liked it so much.

Nice tombstone it got tho http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wave.html

https://killedbygoogle.com/ would be the better tombstone reference

Andrew Nenakhov: did you like the operational transforms or its XMPP interface?

Who looked at the Wawe protocol other than me?

Me, around the Let's Federate this meeting at Google HQ, timed to coincide with OSCon and the XMPP Summit there.

Got the t-shirt. Were a bunch of there.

I was not impressed with the protocol.

But it was really just one guy on that.

It's a pretty good argument for the actual wire protocol not mattering all that much for the end user experience.

ralphm, I liked how it worked. We used it for great results while developing new specifications. Currently, for example, we use Google docs to work on our protocols, and comments there kinda lacking. Wave would be better. But the downside is that to not get the wave cluttered you need a disciplined team who all agree to follow some guidelines, like not flood on topmost level of wave

Didn't really look at the protocol. I got an impression that it's modified XMPP and uses basic same stanza concept

https://web.archive.org/web/20180112171345/http://www.waveprotocol.org/protocol/draft-protocol-specs/draft-protocol-spec

So based on XMPP PubSub, but weirdly. E.g. the notification events don't seem to have a node attribute.

You could argue that the node is nil or the empty string...

PubSub event notificationts with receipts?

The only way to have no node attribute in notifications, is if you use the concept of Collections. Then this would come from the so-called root node.

However, that'd also require SHIM headers to be present.

So that you know which actual leaf node the notification was for, and to disambiguate different types of payload. I.e. the same node cannot have items with payloads of which the main element have different namespaces.

I think there once was a discussion about what it meant to have node="" vs no node attribute, although in the context of XEP 30.

And then there's the weird request response semantics that they grafted onto this.

Zash: well, there should be no difference.

can someone check the standards@ moderation queue please? looking for a message from someone with implementation feedback about xep-0353 (-:

That you has been sent? I did see your message earlier this week.

That you know has been sent?

ralphm: no, someone from genesys. copied me on it so i got it but it didn't show up in the archives

That's the company that does customer-chat stuff, right?

callcenters. lance was also cc'd

Indeed haven't seen a message to that end. Kev? intosi?