XSF Discussion - 2019-03-27

Guus, Seve: https://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/jobs/2019-03-19-design-of-badges-for-different-xmpp-compliance-levels

Ge0rG, goooood! I'll add it to the newsletter so we can help spread the word

I've also created a strawman set of badges at https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/

jonas’: do you want me to bump the version number for s/412/410/ in 0412?

what?

-ENOCTX

jonas’: my last mail to standards regarding the typo in the 0412 changelog

All XEP changes /should/ have a version bump, yes.

Editorial level, obviously.

changes in the revision log are weird though

Good job Ge0rG

Although https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/ gives me nothing but broken images

https://xmpp.igniterealtime.org:7483/httpfileupload/e788d7b8-1101-4142-8fb4-b6ca55e46647/hxxMFi9-Sjy3ylTXZZsCZA.jpg

Same here

I'm sorry, it looks like my rsync job went wrong. Everything becomes very complicated if you are capped to 64kbit/s.

64K should be enough for everyone, Ge0rG ...

I've regenerated the index, does https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/ work and show six badges per line now?

Yes Ge0rG

Except one, Ge0rG

Advanced IM 2016

jonas’: do I need to make a new changelog block as well then?

Looks great, Ge0rG !

My suggestion is to fade to grey, instead of red, over time.

Seve: thanks, fixing it now

red implies 'broken'

Ge0rG, ...... maybe wait for the inevitable LC feedback

Hmm yeah, if you can keep the contrast right, I'd vote for grey as well

fixed advanced-im-2016.svg

Guss, yeah I'd also prefer that. I don't mind another color, just not red

pep. exactly. Not red. Could be something else than grey.

I wonder if it should be `[Logo] Client | Core/Advanced/... 2019` instead of `[Logo] Core Client | 2019`

(although 'fade to black' does imply outdated stuff)

feel free to play around on your own. Generator URL is https://img.shields.io/endpoint.svg?url=https://op-co.de/tmp/cs2016.json&label=Advanced%20IM - clone the JSON <https://op-co.de/tmp/cs2016.json> to your own webspace, change the content

because the part of the suite which is implemented is kind of the "value" of the badge, not necessarily the key?

If you want to regenerate all badges, https://op-co.de/tmp/tags.sh and https://op-co.de/tmp/tags.txt

we also don't have categories for combinations in the CS

like Mobile IM

otherwise I'd love to link to the specific sections of 0412

it would be possible to mark them "XMPP Client: Advanced IM" or whatever :D

shades of grey would conflict with the grey background of the left pane

I think there’s precedent for using grey on the rhs of the badge

Light grey wouldn't?

a light gray I think

jonas’: there was an LC and it did generate feedback. I really don't want to have another round of "two weeks" in here re 0412

shields.io has a 'lightgrey' option

aliased to 'inactive'

Ge0rG, ah, I see

I can just fix the typo when I assign 1.0

I think that the size of the badge and the lack of the string "XMPP" is a larger issue than the color of the rhs

jonas’: that sounds like the most elegant solution. Feel free to use this commit: https://github.com/ge0rg/xeps/commit/ec31053591a7fdf98b54680450dbe1fba026d5da

before we bikeshed the color of the year, can we please bikeshed the color of the left pane? I want to have a cheap color for "Core" and a premium color for "Advanced" please.

or maybe advaced should have golden text?

Ge0rG, all the categories, are just as a mockup thing, to see which ones get selected or your view on this is to use all those categories?

Seve: I've created all categories that are sensible in my eyes

e.g. "Mobile Web" doesn't make much sense

Compliance Suites Badges for All!

https://bitbucket.org/mrtedd/compliance-badges/src

coincidentally similar to Georg's, but different

I think IM+ is the brand name of some IM client/platform</bikeshed>

(the website is still loading)

Ge0rG, yes, I think so too -- it's just a shorthand instead of adding "advanced" everywhere; other suggetions welcome

Golden text color for Advanced?

theTedd: is your proposal as strawman as mine?

I'm open to design suggestions - I was going to fiddle with the colours later; the main part was generating them automatically

theTedd: I've made a very unprofessional attempt at splitting the text into two lines at https://op-co.de/tmp/core-client-2019.svg

Didn't look into the actual SVG generator for how flexible it is, this is manually "designed" in Inkscape

I saw, but it's a little squashed; I think badges should be short and simple

I very much like the "+" notion for shortening the text, except for the Trademark problem

* is an easy alternative

* has a very different meaning (where's the footnote?)

I don't see anything else with a positive connotation...

++

https://upload.yax.im/upload/vLVYbPWkMwCOs5bL/cat.png

I could add emoji characters :D

theTedd: are you reading my mind?

sorry, bad habit

`XMPP:2019 | Client🙈 Web🤢`

Client⁺

(superscript +)

Client➕

> `XMPP:2019 | Client🙈 Web🤢` :D

Almost looks like a grave tomb. Fits the general status of xmpp

At some point, I'm driving over there to take your keyboard away from you.

♕ Client

https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 "you should ditch silo X for silo Y" no mention of XMPP :'(

> The app also leaks metadata “like a champion,” I'm sure XMPP can beat it on _that_ front.

what's signals counter, "we don't leak metadata, we just have it all ourselves" ?

moparisthebest: they are working really hard to avoid as much metadata as possible. at least they claim to do so

yea that's the problem "they claim" not verifiable at all

that article kind of smells like a facebook-funded hit piece hehe

"switch to a messenger approved by your facebook overlords"

I'm sure facebook doesn't even need to pay for this kind of marketing.

w.r.t. Signal and privacy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18234849

Didn't they use hardvare stuff to prove what server code they were running?

You'd still need to make sure that you're running the correct client binary

luckily, reproducible builds are a solved problem /s

Zash, did they? Reference for that?

I can't imagine how you could possibly prove it

I read it on the Internet.

:)

something about SGX

and remote attestation

https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ ?

Indeed mentioned there

But is that only used for the contact discovery?

I haven't read the code, but that's what the HN thread above seems to show

oh well as long as they verified it's secure with a black-box intel extension that also can't be verified secure I guess it's secure?

o_O

Yup

> But is that only used for the contact discovery? As far as I know it's not actually used. Just a proof of concept.

hey, it’s too early for another markup flamewar

Noo, never enough!

It was enough when the first person typed *something* on a type writer

Did the typewriter render it as bold or italic?

bold if you hit the keys hard enough, assuming mechanical

did you know that you can press backspace on the typewriter once for each letter and then re-type for bold markup?

I'm awaiting your XEP for that Ge0rG

I've been doing that on XMPP for years

XEP^H^H^HXEP! Look how bold I am!

Ge0rG, Usually X^HXE^HEP^HP, but yeah. Doesn't [gn]roff still do that?

dwd: I'm sure you are going to get more boldness with my approach.

slightly related, I was just editing the badge SVG generated by mrtedd in the browser's inspector.