XSF Discussion - 2019-03-27

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  119. Ge0rG Guus, Seve: https://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/jobs/2019-03-19-design-of-badges-for-different-xmpp-compliance-levels
  120. Seve Ge0rG, goooood! I'll add it to the newsletter so we can help spread the word
  121. Ge0rG I've also created a strawman set of badges at https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/
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  126. Ge0rG jonas’: do you want me to bump the version number for s/412/410/ in 0412?
  127. jonas’ what?
  128. jonas’ -ENOCTX
  129. Ge0rG jonas’: my last mail to standards regarding the typo in the 0412 changelog
  130. Kev All XEP changes /should/ have a version bump, yes.
  131. Kev Editorial level, obviously.
  132. jonas’ changes in the revision log are weird though
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  139. Guus Good job Ge0rG
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  141. Guus Although https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/ gives me nothing but broken images
  142. Guus https://xmpp.igniterealtime.org:7483/httpfileupload/e788d7b8-1101-4142-8fb4-b6ca55e46647/hxxMFi9-Sjy3ylTXZZsCZA.jpg
  143. Seve Same here
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  157. Ge0rG I'm sorry, it looks like my rsync job went wrong. Everything becomes very complicated if you are capped to 64kbit/s.
  158. Guus 64K should be enough for everyone, Ge0rG ...
  159. Ge0rG I've regenerated the index, does https://op-co.de/tmp/xmpp-compliance-badges/ work and show six badges per line now?
  160. Seve Yes Ge0rG
  161. Seve Except one, Ge0rG
  162. Seve Advanced IM 2016
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  164. Ge0rG jonas’: do I need to make a new changelog block as well then?
  165. Guus Looks great, Ge0rG !
  166. Guus My suggestion is to fade to grey, instead of red, over time.
  167. Ge0rG Seve: thanks, fixing it now
  168. Guus red implies 'broken'
  169. jonas’ Ge0rG, ...... maybe wait for the inevitable LC feedback
  170. MattJ Hmm yeah, if you can keep the contrast right, I'd vote for grey as well
  171. Ge0rG fixed advanced-im-2016.svg
  172. pep. Guss, yeah I'd also prefer that. I don't mind another color, just not red
  173. Guus pep. exactly. Not red. Could be something else than grey.
  174. jonas’ I wonder if it should be `[Logo] Client | Core/Advanced/... 2019` instead of `[Logo] Core Client | 2019`
  175. Guus (although 'fade to black' does imply outdated stuff)
  176. Ge0rG feel free to play around on your own. Generator URL is https://img.shields.io/endpoint.svg?url=https://op-co.de/tmp/cs2016.json&label=Advanced%20IM - clone the JSON <https://op-co.de/tmp/cs2016.json> to your own webspace, change the content
  177. jonas’ because the part of the suite which is implemented is kind of the "value" of the badge, not necessarily the key?
  178. Ge0rG If you want to regenerate all badges, https://op-co.de/tmp/tags.sh and https://op-co.de/tmp/tags.txt
  179. Ge0rG we also don't have categories for combinations in the CS
  180. Ge0rG like Mobile IM
  181. Ge0rG otherwise I'd love to link to the specific sections of 0412
  182. Ge0rG it would be possible to mark them "XMPP Client: Advanced IM" or whatever :D
  183. Ge0rG shades of grey would conflict with the grey background of the left pane
  184. jonas’ I think there’s precedent for using grey on the rhs of the badge
  185. MattJ Light grey wouldn't?
  186. jonas’ a light gray I think
  187. Ge0rG jonas’: there was an LC and it did generate feedback. I really don't want to have another round of "two weeks" in here re 0412
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  189. MattJ shields.io has a 'lightgrey' option
  190. MattJ aliased to 'inactive'
  191. jonas’ Ge0rG, ah, I see
  192. jonas’ I can just fix the typo when I assign 1.0
  193. Ge0rG I think that the size of the badge and the lack of the string "XMPP" is a larger issue than the color of the rhs
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  195. Ge0rG jonas’: that sounds like the most elegant solution. Feel free to use this commit: https://github.com/ge0rg/xeps/commit/ec31053591a7fdf98b54680450dbe1fba026d5da
  196. Ge0rG before we bikeshed the color of the year, can we please bikeshed the color of the left pane? I want to have a cheap color for "Core" and a premium color for "Advanced" please.
  197. Ge0rG or maybe advaced should have golden text?
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  199. Seve Ge0rG, all the categories, are just as a mockup thing, to see which ones get selected or your view on this is to use all those categories?
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  202. Ge0rG Seve: I've created all categories that are sensible in my eyes
  203. Ge0rG e.g. "Mobile Web" doesn't make much sense
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  214. theTedd Compliance Suites Badges for All!
  215. theTedd https://bitbucket.org/mrtedd/compliance-badges/src
  216. theTedd coincidentally similar to Georg's, but different
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  231. Ge0rG I think IM+ is the brand name of some IM client/platform</bikeshed>
  232. Ge0rG (the website is still loading)
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  235. theTedd Ge0rG, yes, I think so too -- it's just a shorthand instead of adding "advanced" everywhere; other suggetions welcome
  236. Ge0rG Golden text color for Advanced?
  237. Ge0rG theTedd: is your proposal as strawman as mine?
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  239. theTedd I'm open to design suggestions - I was going to fiddle with the colours later; the main part was generating them automatically
  240. Ge0rG theTedd: I've made a very unprofessional attempt at splitting the text into two lines at https://op-co.de/tmp/core-client-2019.svg
  241. Ge0rG Didn't look into the actual SVG generator for how flexible it is, this is manually "designed" in Inkscape
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  243. theTedd I saw, but it's a little squashed; I think badges should be short and simple
  244. Ge0rG I very much like the "+" notion for shortening the text, except for the Trademark problem
  245. theTedd * is an easy alternative
  246. Ge0rG * has a very different meaning (where's the footnote?)
  247. Ge0rG I don't see anything else with a positive connotation...
  248. MattJ ++
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  250. Ge0rG https://upload.yax.im/upload/vLVYbPWkMwCOs5bL/cat.png
  251. theTedd I could add emoji characters :D
  252. Ge0rG theTedd: are you reading my mind?
  253. theTedd sorry, bad habit
  254. Ge0rG `XMPP:2019 | Client🙈 Web🤢`
  255. theTedd Client⁺
  256. theTedd (superscript +)
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  259. Ge0rG Client➕
  260. wurstsalat > `XMPP:2019 | Client🙈 Web🤢` :D
  261. Ge0rG Almost looks like a grave tomb. Fits the general status of xmpp
  262. Guus At some point, I'm driving over there to take your keyboard away from you.
  263. theTedd ♕ Client
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  297. moparisthebest https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 "you should ditch silo X for silo Y" no mention of XMPP :'(
  298. Ge0rG > The app also leaks metadata “like a champion,” I'm sure XMPP can beat it on _that_ front.
  299. moparisthebest what's signals counter, "we don't leak metadata, we just have it all ourselves" ?
  300. Ge0rG moparisthebest: they are working really hard to avoid as much metadata as possible. at least they claim to do so
  301. moparisthebest yea that's the problem "they claim" not verifiable at all
  302. moparisthebest that article kind of smells like a facebook-funded hit piece hehe
  303. moparisthebest "switch to a messenger approved by your facebook overlords"
  304. Ge0rG I'm sure facebook doesn't even need to pay for this kind of marketing.
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  309. Wiktor w.r.t. Signal and privacy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18234849
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  312. Zash Didn't they use hardvare stuff to prove what server code they were running?
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  314. pep. You'd still need to make sure that you're running the correct client binary
  315. jonas’ luckily, reproducible builds are a solved problem /s
  316. MattJ Zash, did they? Reference for that?
  317. MattJ I can't imagine how you could possibly prove it
  318. Zash I read it on the Internet.
  319. MattJ :)
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  321. jonas’ something about SGX
  322. jonas’ and remote attestation
  323. pep. https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ ?
  324. Zash Indeed mentioned there
  325. Zash But is that only used for the contact discovery?
  326. pep. I haven't read the code, but that's what the HN thread above seems to show
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  328. moparisthebest oh well as long as they verified it's secure with a black-box intel extension that also can't be verified secure I guess it's secure?
  329. moparisthebest o_O
  330. MattJ Yup
  331. Wiktor > But is that only used for the contact discovery? As far as I know it's not actually used. Just a proof of concept.
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  348. jonas’ hey, it’s too early for another markup flamewar
  349. Seve Noo, never enough!
  350. Zash It was enough when the first person typed *something* on a type writer
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  357. MattJ Did the typewriter render it as bold or italic?
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  359. moparisthebest bold if you hit the keys hard enough, assuming mechanical
  360. Ge0rG did you know that you can press backspace on the typewriter once for each letter and then re-type for bold markup?
  361. moparisthebest I'm awaiting your XEP for that Ge0rG
  362. MattJ I've been doing that on XMPP for years
  363. Ge0rG XEP^H^H^HXEP! Look how bold I am!
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  366. dwd Ge0rG, Usually X^HXE^HEP^HP, but yeah. Doesn't [gn]roff still do that?
  367. Ge0rG dwd: I'm sure you are going to get more boldness with my approach.
  368. Ge0rG slightly related, I was just editing the badge SVG generated by mrtedd in the browser's inspector.
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