XSF Discussion - 2019-03-31

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  128. 404.city Support

    Added unbiased server list https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/545

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  167. pep.

    rion, xmpp:psi-dev@conference.jabber.ru?join is that still the room for psi? A user in the gajim room is apparently getting "Forbidden" when trying to join

  168. rion


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  170. jonas’

    maybe nickname conflict?

  171. rion

    or invalid captcha input

  172. pep.

    captcha :(

  173. rion

    yep we also suffer from spam

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  179. pep.

    rion, I don't get prompted for any captcha btw, I manage to join. I'm not sure what that user is doing.. possible PEBCAK :/

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  182. rion

    pep.‎, hm I don't know why you weren't prompted. maybe you are already reigstered there. I'm now on Gajim and can't check

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  191. pep.

    rion, Is there a place that user can join to get help from you directly? Or can you join gajim@conference.gajim.org? It's pretty hard to debug stuff from here otherwise :p

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  206. pep.

    Is there any example of XEP profiles that are then overriden with other more specific XEPs

  207. pep.

    Is there any example of XEPs that are then overriden with other more specific XEPs, some kind of profile definition

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  210. rion

    pep.‎, do you expect to hear "pep" ?

  211. pep.


  212. pep.

    I did have it in mind but I wanted to know if there were any others

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  252. Neustradamus

    404.city Support: can you update the logo? https://twitter.com/404_city/status/1110460013661880320

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  263. moparisthebest

    Hey stack overflow put up it's April 1st joke early too https://superuser.com/questions/1419573/snort-failed-to-parse-the-ip-address cc jonas’ :D

  264. moparisthebest

    Non mobile layout only

  265. jonas’


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  275. pep.

    To answer my own question, 374 is a profile of 373.

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  284. 404.city Support

    Neustradamus, Does XMPP have a new logo?

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  286. pep.

    "yes", the bits overlapping at the bottom have been corrected

  287. pep.

    The orange bits

  288. Neustradamus

    A little change: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:XMPP_logo.svg

  289. 404.city Support

    Neustradamus, Ok (old tweets cannot be changed, but new ones will be with the new logo)

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  311. pep.

    TIL xeps use prettifyjs, what's the JS in there used for? I would think the CSS file is enough to colorize xml snippets, but disabling that JS script makes colors not render

  312. Zash

    pep.: You seem to be answering your own question?

  313. pep.

    Yeah but why

  314. pep.

    What actually requires JS

  315. Zash

    ... the XML syntax highlighter

  316. Zash

    I don't know why, it's always been like that.

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  324. jonas’

    probably because nobody dared to implement XML syntax highlighting in XSLT

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  399. pep.

    Ohh, I get it now

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  401. pep.

    I thought that was generated before, statically, I wasn't even thinking about xslt..

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  414. lovetox

    is one -1 vote enough to block the message correcting change?

  415. pep.


  416. lovetox

    than thanks for blocking that Ge0rG , i feel there was no real discussion what is the best solution here

  417. lovetox

    also if i remember correctly most client would do than exactly the opposite of what the XEP would say

  418. pep.

    personally I think both are equivalent, it's up to implementation details and people who won't want to change what they have and will argue the loudest now :)

  419. pep.

    In both cases things will break

  420. Zash

    If the concept is that a the payloads of a replacement message replace those of the corrected one, then https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/764/commits/a3dc32643c33282f474568f2100779f93a111deb seems consistent, becasue the top level attributes stay the same, including id

  421. Zash

    And then the replacement carrier message goes into the ether, like a chat state, having completed its task.

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  424. pep.

    To me it's weird that LMC changes the whole payload inside fwiw

  425. pep.

    (or the whole stanza even)

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  427. lovetox

    to my knowledge nobody saves stanzas to local database

  428. lovetox

    so the concept of replacing a stanza seems weird

  429. pep.

    In poezio that's what happens, in memory though, there's no saving to disk

  430. lovetox

    yeah and then you have to do database operations that have nothing to do with the stanza

  431. pep.

    (well, the message itself yes, but not the stanza)

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  433. lovetox

    for me its obvious that the xep does not mandate to replace a stanza

  434. lovetox

    that would mean the xep mandates some storage format of data in memory or database

  435. Zash

    Immutable history!

  436. lovetox

    it just wants to say, to the user it should look like if the payload was replaced

  437. pep.

    lovetox, yeah that's also what I think it should be

  438. pep.

    also, with a precision that payload means <body/>

  439. lovetox


  440. lovetox

    so i would cast this stanza discussion aside

  441. lovetox

    the real discussion is if it has pro/cons if we do one of both solutions

  442. Zash

    if you correct a correction stanza, does that mean you're replacing the payloads it's replacing?

  443. pep.

    What's the XEP again that recommends not putting too many things in a stanza at the same time?

  444. Ge0rG

    There was a discussion and I brought up strong arguments in favor of the other way of doing it

  445. Ge0rG

    But then everybody forgot about it and people moved on

  446. Zash

    but then that stanza would be replacing itself and collapse into a black hole

  447. Zash

    and also divide by zero

  448. pep.

    Zash, that's what usually happens no?

  449. lovetox

    the problem is not the receiving side for me

  450. Zash

    I don't know

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  455. Ge0rG divides Zash by zero

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  458. Ge0rG

    Hello NaN

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  489. lovetox

    if we do it like Kev proposes, and i send a correction, then i cant simply replace the text and forgot about that i just sent a *new* message with a unique id, an id for which i expect receipts

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  494. lovetox

    so i have to save that message, but not treat it as a message if the user again wants to correct

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  499. lovetox

    already thinking about this makes my head hurt

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  513. lovetox

    i also cant replace the id of the previous message, because i also expect receipts for that

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  521. lovetox

    the other way is much more straight forward to implement in my opinion

  522. Zash

    !xsf_Martin: you're quitjoining a lot

  523. lovetox

    but maybe im overthinking this, maybe it doesnt really matter

  524. lovetox

    what i wonder if one of the two solutions has pros for backscrolling/history loading

  525. lovetox

    and also in no client its a true replacement

  526. lovetox

    users expect to see the pre-corrected text

  527. lovetox

    so its more like an addition

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  529. Zash

    At Summit we discussed this, under the "mam2" topic

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  531. lovetox

    i would strongly lean to the solution that has better history/mam propertys

  532. Zash

    The plan was to give MAM another dimention for things like attachments, reactions, corrections

  533. pep.

    lovetox, yes and no. Poezio will no keep the original text if you have LMC enabled, (which I think is bad, but I have no clue how to make it on the UI). It will only show all messages (in an info window) if you configure beforehand that you want to see corrections

  534. pep.

    *that you want to see what's being corrected, to what, iirc. (I don't use this feature. When in doubt, I look at the xml_tab :-°

  535. pep.

    Zash, aggregation?

  536. Ge0rG

    pep.: what you are saying is a sophisticated wording for 'poezio LMC sucks'

  537. pep.

    ah k

  538. pep.

    Ge0rG, I am not hiding it :)

  539. pep.

    Not trying to at least

  540. Zash

    pep.: that would be a thing you could do with that multi-dimentional thing

  541. Ge0rG

    lovetox: my argument is that when receiving partial history, you maybe don't have the original message, but all the corrections.

  542. Zash

    pep.: basically flatten it a bit

  543. Ge0rG

    Zash: I think the two dimensional MAM is orthogonal to which message to reference

  544. lovetox

    but wouldnt always correct the same id then better

  545. pep.

    When going from the end I guess it's about the same

  546. lovetox

    like if i receive a message from history, with the first correction i receive, i at least know what id i have to look for to get the original

  547. Zash

    Ge0rG: You'd reference the first level

  548. lovetox

    and with the chain way, i never know if that was the last correction

  549. lovetox

    it could go endless

  550. Zash

    archive[user][archive-id][payload-type][i] = stuff

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  552. Zash

    Altho would that model allow correcting a reaction?

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  591. Neustradamus

    Can you look for XEP-308 muc log archive from server and from client? Example: Test 1 -> Test 2 There are two entries in the log archive from server and from client?

  592. Neustradamus

    Can you look for XEP-0308 muc log archive from server and from client? Example: Test 1 -> Test 2 There are two entries in the log archive from server and from client?

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