XSF Discussion - 2019-04-01

  1. Guus

    Neustradamus If I recall correctly, the MAM XEP allows (but not requires) metadata to be stored. To be able to determine that "Test 2" was a correction of "Test 1", the archive must have recorded some of that optional metadata, otherwise I don't see how the correction could ever be reconstructed from the archives.

  2. Zash

    The web log archive? With client authors struggling to understand how it's supposed to work, how is what amounts to a stylesheet-ish template meant to figure it out?

  3. Zash

    I did some fancy CSI related stuff over the weekend, since I noticed that ~93% of things my phone was woken up for were group chat messages from myself on another device.

  4. Guus

    Zash: in did not recognize that we were discussing the webarchive specifically.

  5. Ge0rG

    Zash: were those actual messages with a body or just CSN junk?

  6. Zash

    Maybe we weren't

  7. Zash

    Ge0rG: With body

  8. Ge0rG

    Zash: so besides of you being very chatty, what's the outtake?

  9. Zash

    Ge0rG: I made a server-side grace period thing and a thing with a list of less important group chats

  10. Zash

    I'd like to eventually have it automatically identify public channels, but a manual list via an ad-hoc command will have to suffice until then

  11. Ge0rG

    Zash: the self-messages are "needed" to remove the potential notification of incoming messages, aka "mark as read"

  12. Zash

    It gets it eventually anyways

  13. Zash

    And whatever there was to mark as read, those are likely in the same flush

  14. Zash

    I won't notice either way with my phone in my pocket.

  15. Ge0rG

    Zash: feel free to implement stateful per-MUC delay queues.

  16. Ge0rG

    also anchored in the user's notifications prefs. Which are client-local.

  17. Zash

    I feelt free to make my phone not notify when *I* wrote things.

  18. Zash

    Now it just randomly notifies whenever the buffer gets full.

  19. Zash

    Might be due to weird interaction between Conversations and Sailfish

  20. Ge0rG

    Zash: the thing is that the self-message is a signal to the phone to not-notify you. Or maybe even to un-notify

  21. Ge0rG

    I might have written a bit of rationale in the csi_something prosody ticket

  22. Zash

    It already followed that as far as possible.

  23. Ge0rG

    My rationale didn't include smart per muc queues

  24. Guus

    stackoverflow... my eyes! my eyes!

  25. jonas’


  26. Zash

    I've not done any "smart per muc queues", nor heard about that before.

  27. Zash

    I made a thing that makes a note of which resource was last active.

  28. Ge0rG

    And what happens based on that note?

  29. Zash

    Anything sent to other sessions within a short time limit gets de-prioritized and most likely delayed until whenever

  30. Ge0rG

    That sounds similar to what yaxim is doing regarding user notifications

  31. Zash


  32. Zash

    That kind of thing was an inspiration

  33. Ge0rG

    But now every implementation has their own timeout value

  34. Zash

    And the other thing being a configurable list of JIDs that are always considered 'unimportant'.

  35. Zash

    Might be able to get it to recognise your own messages tho

  36. Ge0rG

    I can't follow

  37. Zash

    I am talking about extra plugins FWIW

  38. Zash

    Things I primarily made for myself

  39. Ge0rG

    Could you start with _why_ you made them, and not _what_ they do, please?

  40. Zash

    Because Prosody core does not know how to distinguish between banquets and barbequeue chats, it'll consider all groupchats to be important. For me, who's mostly in a bunch of public noisy channels, that doesn't seem optimal.

  41. Zash

    Ge0rG: Same reason for basically everything I do. It annoyed me. I removed the annoyance.

  42. Ge0rG

    Zash: what's "it"? Also asking for the rationale of individual actions, not your philosophical motivations

  43. Zash

    Ge0rG: I checked what kind of stanzas caused a CSI flush. 93% were groupchat messages. ~20% were from me in one chat.

  44. Zash

    I don't think I saw any CSI flushing due to it reaching the queue limit.

  45. Ge0rG

    Zash: so you manually declared all public MUCs as unimportant?

  46. Ge0rG

    Zash: if you can make the banquet barbecue distinction, you can easily apply different rules on those, with a "highlight only" rule for banquets

  47. Zash

    Actually, at first I just made all MUCs be unimportant. :)

  48. Ge0rG

    Zash: awesome. You just broke the private group use case!

  49. Zash

    I added an ad-hoc command that lets you edit a list

  50. Zash

    Ge0rG: These being 3rd party addons.

  51. Zash

    Ge0rG: What's in core now however is that it does a flush when it sees that the client sent something.

  52. Ge0rG

    I'm not using that core

  53. Zash

    Not yet

  54. Zash

    Maybe one day

  55. Ge0rG

    Once it integrates well with smacks and clown_notify

  56. Zash

    Something something MattJ will save us

  57. Ge0rG

    It will happen on a Monday, but nobody knows the decade.

  58. pep.

    https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mls/ Anybody know what software this is?

  59. moparisthebest

    my first HN post ever https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19542858 , I'm officially a shill or troll or something

  60. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: congratulations for making the front page

  61. pep.

    Why always shitposts make it, seriously people, Dox.. it's the same level as DoH

  62. pep. runs away

  63. moparisthebest

    you'll get no argument from me pep. :)

  64. MattJ

    Is there already a Prosody module?

  65. moparisthebest


  66. moparisthebest

    MattJ, https://github.com/wiktor-k/prosody-dox/blob/master/modules/mod_dox.lua

  67. MattJ


  68. MattJ


  69. MattJ

    It uses DoH :D

  70. moparisthebest

    easier that way, already base64 :D

  71. moparisthebest

    https://github.com/moparisthebest/jDnsProxy mine will use DNS over TCP, TLS, HTTP, or XMPP, you can pipe dns over udp over xmpp over xmpp over http if you want

  72. MattJ

    Reached the top of HN :)

  73. jonas’

    moparisthebest, kudos to the PR stunt

  74. jonas’

    people think it’s an april’s fool

  75. moparisthebest

    jonas’, actually, I just realized something, did you do that on purpose?

  76. moparisthebest

    418 is "I'm a teapot" which was an april fools joke

  77. jonas’

    moparisthebest, no, that just happened

  78. moparisthebest

    ha, well, that makes it even funnier

  79. pep.

    I wonder what's the most widely supported April's fool joke. 418 seems pretty close to me

  80. pep.

    If nobody does anything with it, I'm sure all http implementation recognize it

  81. jonas’

    418 like "I’m a teapot" or like XEP-0418 DoX?

  82. pep.

    The HTTP one

  83. jonas’


  84. jonas’

    I want this to become a thing: http://leahneukirchen.org/tmp/draft-neukirchen-ipan-00.txt

  85. moparisthebest

    jonas’, did you see https://blog.webernetz.net/using-case-sensitive-ipv6-addressing-on-a-palo-alto/

  86. jonas’

    it scrolled past me, but I didn’t click

  87. fire

    Hey yoy

  88. fire

    What is it

  89. fire

    Talk me

  90. moparisthebest

    hi fire

  91. fire

    I from russia, ok?

  92. moparisthebest

    I don't have a problem with it :)

  93. fire

    Me problem

  94. fire

    I don't know english language

  95. fire

    Very sad, yes?

  96. fire

    What doing this?

  97. fire

    Hey man

  98. MattJ

    fire, https://xmpp.org/

  99. fire

    MattJ, thank @}->--

  100. fire

    moparisthebest, where are you my dear friend?

  101. fire

    Look is monitor

  102. fire

    For compuster

  103. Ge0rG

    Today is probably a good day to announce that: https://yaxim.org/blog/2019/04/01/yaxim-enters-the-matrix/

  104. moparisthebest

    matrix sucks because I can't query DNS over it

  105. Ge0rG


  106. pep.

    Yay, no new bug reports on our bug trackers

  107. fire

    MattJ, have IM traslator for me?

  108. pep.

    moparisthebest: somebody should make.it part of the monolithic spec, and have all queries replicated among every servers

  109. fire


  110. moparisthebest

    pep., like a distributed DNS ? sounds innovative

  111. fire

    moparisthebest, hey man

  112. fire

    moparisthebest, IM translator is live?

  113. fire

    Bot for me

  114. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: so I just submitted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19544834 to compete with DoX.

  115. fire

    Ge0rG, no news

  116. fire


  117. fire

    Where are body from

  118. fire

    No body - no problem, yes?

  119. dwd

    moparisthebest, If you ran DNS over Matrix, wouldn't every DNS query be permanently stored in the servers by design?

  120. fire

    Talk me bot for jabber for translate

  121. fire

    English => russian Russian => english

  122. fire


  123. moparisthebest

    dwd, no idea honestly, would it?

  124. fire

    Ok lets go

  125. fire

    Idea for me

  126. jonas’

    dwd, sounds like fun!

  127. jonas’

    dwd, that has great DNS auditing opportunities

  128. fire

    I like musik fun

  129. fire

    jonas’, hey man!!!

  130. fire

    jonas’, i don't know english

  131. fire

    jonas’, yes?

  132. fire

    jonas’, talk me

  133. fire

    jonas’, i am listen

  134. dwd

    moparisthebest, I vaguely recall that Matrix builds conversations into a cryptographically authenticated chain (Blockchain-lite, if you like - and Matthew has been known to suggest that).

  135. Ge0rG just misread conversations as Conversations

  136. moparisthebest

    and there aren't IQ-like fleeting query-response semantics?

  137. fire °-°

  138. dwd

    moparisthebest, Oh, maybe there are. But I don't know if those exist on an end-to-end basis.

  139. moparisthebest

    I've never looked at the protocol so I have no idea, seems like it'd be useful though...

  140. fire

    Maybe translate me

  141. moparisthebest

    maybe someone should write an extension for it, a MEP? oh wait...

  142. fire

    No under stand

  143. fire

    moparisthebest, hey man

  144. moparisthebest

    fire, so this is the XMPP Standards Foundation channel, we mostly discuss XMPP things in here, are you in the wrong place?

  145. moparisthebest

    anyone is welcome of course, but as you see, it's not a lot of "hey, talk to me" type stuff

  146. Ge0rG

    just to steal the topic briefly: does https://opensource.googleblog.com/2019/03/introducing-season-of-docs.html make sense for the XSF?

  147. fire

    moparisthebest, englihs => russian *SORRY*

  148. moparisthebest

    fire, fire up google translate or something :D

  149. dwd

    Ge0rG, It's a "Work for free because it'll be great for your portfolio" deal, isn't it?

  150. Ge0rG

    dwd: looks like it, yeah

  151. Ge0rG

    Also "Google!!1!"

  152. fire

    moparisthebest, no google translate, jabber translate for me

  153. fire

    moparisthebest, there is a jabber bot the translator for me?

  154. moparisthebest

    not that I know of, maybe you should write one?

  155. Ge0rG

    Why a bot and not a proxy?

  156. fire

    moparisthebest, no, i don't know english :-D

  157. moparisthebest

    people who don't know english can't write software?

  158. moparisthebest

    I think that'd be a surprise to a lot of people

  159. fire

    Programing language on english

  160. moparisthebest


  161. fire

    This cool programing language?

  162. moparisthebest

    it's not in english so you should have an easy time with it

  163. fire

    On it write serious projects?

  164. Ge0rG

    moparisthebest: it's a shameless ripoff! https://op-co.de/facefuck/

  165. jonas’

    Subject: NEW: XEP-0419 (Improving Baseline Security in XMPP) XSF-XEP-Url: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0419.html

  166. jonas’

    mmm, I should make this a pubsub service

  167. moparisthebest

    not funny, too close to actual corporate security team's suggestions :'(

  168. jonas’

    so like DoX? ;)

  169. moparisthebest

    actually I was just joking, jerk :''''(

  170. dwd

    Hmmm. Of course, XEP-0419 should have been our anti-spam XEP.

  171. jonas’

    I’m missing a reference here, why?

  172. dwd

    A '419' is one of those "Dead Prince needs your help to extract millions from the country" type scams, named for a Nigerian anti-fraud act.

  173. jonas’


  174. Ge0rG

    Like 404 XEP Not Found. We'll never be able to unroll time

  175. dwd

    XEP-0420 should be amusing though.

  176. jonas’

    XEP-0420: The Answer To The Question Of {Message IDs,Handling Related Messages In Archives,…}?

  177. dwd

    I was thinking more "XEP-0420: Hey, man. WHen you think about it, like everything - I mean everything - is pubsub"

  178. jonas’

    yet another reference I’m lacking?

  179. dwd

    https://www.google.com/search?q=420 should help.

  180. jonas’

    I see

  181. jonas’

    Too Many References

  182. fippo

    can someone remind me what *the* ribs place is called please?

  183. dwd

    fippo, Aux Pâvés de Bruxelles I think

  184. jonas’

    fippo, it’s typically your chest

  185. dwd

    Ah, no circumflex. And it's closed on Mondays.

  186. fippo

    ah... next door ot the little delirium

  187. dwd

    Wait, no. It's closed on Sundays. But it's also closed now, which I don't understand.

  188. dwd

    Yes, that's it - diametrically opposite, in fact.

  189. fippo

    dwd: only one way to resolve this... visit it soon :-)

  190. Zash

    https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4413952466 this?

  191. dwd

    fippo, I was there two months ago. The meat sweats have almost receded.

  192. dwd

    Zash, That, indeed.

  193. Zash