XSF Discussion - 2019-04-01

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  101. Guus Neustradamus If I recall correctly, the MAM XEP allows (but not requires) metadata to be stored. To be able to determine that "Test 2" was a correction of "Test 1", the archive must have recorded some of that optional metadata, otherwise I don't see how the correction could ever be reconstructed from the archives.
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  103. Zash The web log archive? With client authors struggling to understand how it's supposed to work, how is what amounts to a stylesheet-ish template meant to figure it out?
  104. Zash I did some fancy CSI related stuff over the weekend, since I noticed that ~93% of things my phone was woken up for were group chat messages from myself on another device.
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  107. Guus Zash: in did not recognize that we were discussing the webarchive specifically.
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  109. Ge0rG Zash: were those actual messages with a body or just CSN junk?
  110. Zash Maybe we weren't
  111. Zash Ge0rG: With body
  112. Ge0rG Zash: so besides of you being very chatty, what's the outtake?
  113. Zash Ge0rG: I made a server-side grace period thing and a thing with a list of less important group chats
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  117. Zash I'd like to eventually have it automatically identify public channels, but a manual list via an ad-hoc command will have to suffice until then
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  120. Ge0rG Zash: the self-messages are "needed" to remove the potential notification of incoming messages, aka "mark as read"
  121. Zash It gets it eventually anyways
  122. Zash And whatever there was to mark as read, those are likely in the same flush
  123. Zash I won't notice either way with my phone in my pocket.
  124. Ge0rG Zash: feel free to implement stateful per-MUC delay queues.
  125. Ge0rG also anchored in the user's notifications prefs. Which are client-local.
  126. Zash I feelt free to make my phone not notify when *I* wrote things.
  127. Zash Now it just randomly notifies whenever the buffer gets full.
  128. Zash Might be due to weird interaction between Conversations and Sailfish
  129. Ge0rG Zash: the thing is that the self-message is a signal to the phone to not-notify you. Or maybe even to un-notify
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  132. Ge0rG I might have written a bit of rationale in the csi_something prosody ticket
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  137. Zash It already followed that as far as possible.
  138. Ge0rG My rationale didn't include smart per muc queues
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  140. Guus stackoverflow... my eyes! my eyes!
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  143. jonas’ :D
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  146. Zash I've not done any "smart per muc queues", nor heard about that before.
  147. Zash I made a thing that makes a note of which resource was last active.
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  149. Ge0rG And what happens based on that note?
  150. Zash Anything sent to other sessions within a short time limit gets de-prioritized and most likely delayed until whenever
  151. Ge0rG That sounds similar to what yaxim is doing regarding user notifications
  152. Zash Yes
  153. Zash That kind of thing was an inspiration
  154. Ge0rG But now every implementation has their own timeout value
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  159. Zash And the other thing being a configurable list of JIDs that are always considered 'unimportant'.
  160. Zash Might be able to get it to recognise your own messages tho
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  162. Ge0rG I can't follow
  163. Zash I am talking about extra plugins FWIW
  164. Zash Things I primarily made for myself
  165. Ge0rG Could you start with _why_ you made them, and not _what_ they do, please?
  166. Zash Because Prosody core does not know how to distinguish between banquets and barbequeue chats, it'll consider all groupchats to be important. For me, who's mostly in a bunch of public noisy channels, that doesn't seem optimal.
  167. Zash Ge0rG: Same reason for basically everything I do. It annoyed me. I removed the annoyance.
  168. Ge0rG Zash: what's "it"? Also asking for the rationale of individual actions, not your philosophical motivations
  169. Zash Ge0rG: I checked what kind of stanzas caused a CSI flush. 93% were groupchat messages. ~20% were from me in one chat.
  170. Zash I don't think I saw any CSI flushing due to it reaching the queue limit.
  171. Ge0rG Zash: so you manually declared all public MUCs as unimportant?
  172. Ge0rG Zash: if you can make the banquet barbecue distinction, you can easily apply different rules on those, with a "highlight only" rule for banquets
  173. Zash Actually, at first I just made all MUCs be unimportant. :)
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  177. Ge0rG Zash: awesome. You just broke the private group use case!
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  179. Zash I added an ad-hoc command that lets you edit a list
  180. Zash Ge0rG: These being 3rd party addons.
  181. Zash Ge0rG: What's in core now however is that it does a flush when it sees that the client sent something.
  182. Ge0rG I'm not using that core
  183. Zash Not yet
  184. Zash Maybe one day
  185. Ge0rG Once it integrates well with smacks and clown_notify
  186. Zash Something something MattJ will save us
  187. Ge0rG It will happen on a Monday, but nobody knows the decade.
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  271. pep. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mls/ Anybody know what software this is?
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  273. moparisthebest my first HN post ever https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19542858 , I'm officially a shill or troll or something
  274. Ge0rG moparisthebest: congratulations for making the front page
  275. pep. Why always shitposts make it, seriously people, Dox.. it's the same level as DoH
  276. pep. runs away
  277. moparisthebest you'll get no argument from me pep. :)
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  283. MattJ Is there already a Prosody module?
  284. moparisthebest yes
  285. moparisthebest MattJ, https://github.com/wiktor-k/prosody-dox/blob/master/modules/mod_dox.lua
  286. MattJ Perfect
  287. MattJ Wait
  288. MattJ It uses DoH :D
  289. moparisthebest easier that way, already base64 :D
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  291. moparisthebest https://github.com/moparisthebest/jDnsProxy mine will use DNS over TCP, TLS, HTTP, or XMPP, you can pipe dns over udp over xmpp over xmpp over http if you want
  292. MattJ Reached the top of HN :)
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  295. jonas’ moparisthebest, kudos to the PR stunt
  296. jonas’ people think it’s an april’s fool
  297. moparisthebest jonas’, actually, I just realized something, did you do that on purpose?
  298. moparisthebest 418 is "I'm a teapot" which was an april fools joke
  299. jonas’ moparisthebest, no, that just happened
  300. moparisthebest ha, well, that makes it even funnier
  301. pep. I wonder what's the most widely supported April's fool joke. 418 seems pretty close to me
  302. pep. If nobody does anything with it, I'm sure all http implementation recognize it
  303. jonas’ 418 like "I’m a teapot" or like XEP-0418 DoX?
  304. pep. The HTTP one
  305. jonas’ ah
  306. jonas’ I want this to become a thing: http://leahneukirchen.org/tmp/draft-neukirchen-ipan-00.txt
  307. moparisthebest jonas’, did you see https://blog.webernetz.net/using-case-sensitive-ipv6-addressing-on-a-palo-alto/
  308. jonas’ it scrolled past me, but I didn’t click
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  335. fire Hey yoy
  336. fire What is it
  337. fire Talk me
  338. moparisthebest hi fire
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  341. fire I from russia, ok?
  342. moparisthebest I don't have a problem with it :)
  343. fire Me problem
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  345. fire I don't know english language
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  348. fire Very sad, yes?
  349. fire What doing this?
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  353. fire Hey man
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  359. MattJ fire, https://xmpp.org/
  360. fire MattJ, thank @}->--
  361. fire moparisthebest, where are you my dear friend?
  362. fire Look is monitor
  363. fire For compuster
  364. Ge0rG Today is probably a good day to announce that: https://yaxim.org/blog/2019/04/01/yaxim-enters-the-matrix/
  365. moparisthebest matrix sucks because I can't query DNS over it
  366. Ge0rG Heh.
  367. pep. Yay, no new bug reports on our bug trackers
  368. fire MattJ, have IM traslator for me?
  369. pep. moparisthebest: somebody should make.it part of the monolithic spec, and have all queries replicated among every servers
  370. fire Hello
  371. moparisthebest pep., like a distributed DNS ? sounds innovative
  372. fire moparisthebest, hey man
  373. fire moparisthebest, IM translator is live?
  374. fire Bot for me
  375. Ge0rG moparisthebest: so I just submitted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19544834 to compete with DoX.
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  377. fire Ge0rG, no news
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  380. fire What?
  381. fire Where are body from
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  383. fire No body - no problem, yes?
  384. dwd moparisthebest, If you ran DNS over Matrix, wouldn't every DNS query be permanently stored in the servers by design?
  385. fire Talk me bot for jabber for translate
  386. fire English => russian Russian => english
  387. fire Ok?
  388. moparisthebest dwd, no idea honestly, would it?
  389. fire Ok lets go
  390. fire Idea for me
  391. jonas’ dwd, sounds like fun!
  392. jonas’ dwd, that has great DNS auditing opportunities
  393. fire I like musik fun
  394. fire jonas’, hey man!!!
  395. fire jonas’, i don't know english
  396. fire jonas’, yes?
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  400. fire jonas’, talk me
  401. fire jonas’, i am listen
  402. dwd moparisthebest, I vaguely recall that Matrix builds conversations into a cryptographically authenticated chain (Blockchain-lite, if you like - and Matthew has been known to suggest that).
  403. Ge0rG just misread conversations as Conversations
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  405. moparisthebest and there aren't IQ-like fleeting query-response semantics?
  406. fire °-°
  407. dwd moparisthebest, Oh, maybe there are. But I don't know if those exist on an end-to-end basis.
  408. moparisthebest I've never looked at the protocol so I have no idea, seems like it'd be useful though...
  409. fire Maybe translate me
  410. moparisthebest maybe someone should write an extension for it, a MEP? oh wait...
  411. fire No under stand
  412. fire moparisthebest, hey man
  413. moparisthebest fire, so this is the XMPP Standards Foundation channel, we mostly discuss XMPP things in here, are you in the wrong place?
  414. moparisthebest anyone is welcome of course, but as you see, it's not a lot of "hey, talk to me" type stuff
  415. Ge0rG just to steal the topic briefly: does https://opensource.googleblog.com/2019/03/introducing-season-of-docs.html make sense for the XSF?
  416. fire moparisthebest, englihs => russian *SORRY*
  417. moparisthebest fire, fire up google translate or something :D
  418. dwd Ge0rG, It's a "Work for free because it'll be great for your portfolio" deal, isn't it?
  419. Ge0rG dwd: looks like it, yeah
  420. Ge0rG Also "Google!!1!"
  421. fire moparisthebest, no google translate, jabber translate for me
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  427. fire moparisthebest, there is a jabber bot the translator for me?
  428. moparisthebest not that I know of, maybe you should write one?
  429. Ge0rG Why a bot and not a proxy?
  430. fire moparisthebest, no, i don't know english :-D
  431. moparisthebest people who don't know english can't write software?
  432. moparisthebest I think that'd be a surprise to a lot of people
  433. fire Programing language on english
  434. moparisthebest https://www.emojicode.org/
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  437. fire This cool programing language?
  438. moparisthebest it's not in english so you should have an easy time with it
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  442. fire On it write serious projects?
  443. Ge0rG moparisthebest: it's a shameless ripoff! https://op-co.de/facefuck/
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  449. jonas’ Subject: NEW: XEP-0419 (Improving Baseline Security in XMPP) XSF-XEP-Url: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0419.html
  450. jonas’ mmm, I should make this a pubsub service
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  453. moparisthebest not funny, too close to actual corporate security team's suggestions :'(
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  455. jonas’ so like DoX? ;)
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  459. moparisthebest actually I was just joking, jerk :''''(
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  481. dwd Hmmm. Of course, XEP-0419 should have been our anti-spam XEP.
  482. jonas’ I’m missing a reference here, why?
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  485. dwd A '419' is one of those "Dead Prince needs your help to extract millions from the country" type scams, named for a Nigerian anti-fraud act.
  486. jonas’ ah
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  492. Ge0rG Like 404 XEP Not Found. We'll never be able to unroll time
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  494. dwd XEP-0420 should be amusing though.
  495. jonas’ XEP-0420: The Answer To The Question Of {Message IDs,Handling Related Messages In Archives,…}?
  496. dwd I was thinking more "XEP-0420: Hey, man. WHen you think about it, like everything - I mean everything - is pubsub"
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  498. jonas’ yet another reference I’m lacking?
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  500. dwd https://www.google.com/search?q=420 should help.
  501. jonas’ I see
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  503. jonas’ Too Many References
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  507. fippo can someone remind me what *the* ribs place is called please?
  508. dwd fippo, Aux Pâvés de Bruxelles I think
  509. jonas’ fippo, it’s typically your chest
  510. dwd Ah, no circumflex. And it's closed on Mondays.
  511. fippo ah... next door ot the little delirium
  512. dwd Wait, no. It's closed on Sundays. But it's also closed now, which I don't understand.
  513. dwd Yes, that's it - diametrically opposite, in fact.
  514. fippo dwd: only one way to resolve this... visit it soon :-)
  515. Zash https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4413952466 this?
  516. dwd fippo, I was there two months ago. The meat sweats have almost receded.
  517. dwd Zash, That, indeed.
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  539. Zash https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8565.txt
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