XSF Discussion - 2019-04-01

Neustradamus If I recall correctly, the MAM XEP allows (but not requires) metadata to be stored. To be able to determine that "Test 2" was a correction of "Test 1", the archive must have recorded some of that optional metadata, otherwise I don't see how the correction could ever be reconstructed from the archives.

The web log archive? With client authors struggling to understand how it's supposed to work, how is what amounts to a stylesheet-ish template meant to figure it out?

I did some fancy CSI related stuff over the weekend, since I noticed that ~93% of things my phone was woken up for were group chat messages from myself on another device.

Zash: in did not recognize that we were discussing the webarchive specifically.

Zash: were those actual messages with a body or just CSN junk?

Maybe we weren't

Ge0rG: With body

Zash: so besides of you being very chatty, what's the outtake?

Ge0rG: I made a server-side grace period thing and a thing with a list of less important group chats

I'd like to eventually have it automatically identify public channels, but a manual list via an ad-hoc command will have to suffice until then

Zash: the self-messages are "needed" to remove the potential notification of incoming messages, aka "mark as read"

It gets it eventually anyways

And whatever there was to mark as read, those are likely in the same flush

I won't notice either way with my phone in my pocket.

Zash: feel free to implement stateful per-MUC delay queues.

also anchored in the user's notifications prefs. Which are client-local.

I feelt free to make my phone not notify when *I* wrote things.

Now it just randomly notifies whenever the buffer gets full.

Might be due to weird interaction between Conversations and Sailfish

Zash: the thing is that the self-message is a signal to the phone to not-notify you. Or maybe even to un-notify

I might have written a bit of rationale in the csi_something prosody ticket

It already followed that as far as possible.

My rationale didn't include smart per muc queues

stackoverflow... my eyes! my eyes!

:D

I've not done any "smart per muc queues", nor heard about that before.

I made a thing that makes a note of which resource was last active.

And what happens based on that note?

Anything sent to other sessions within a short time limit gets de-prioritized and most likely delayed until whenever

That sounds similar to what yaxim is doing regarding user notifications

Yes

That kind of thing was an inspiration

But now every implementation has their own timeout value

And the other thing being a configurable list of JIDs that are always considered 'unimportant'.

Might be able to get it to recognise your own messages tho

I can't follow

I am talking about extra plugins FWIW

Things I primarily made for myself

Could you start with _why_ you made them, and not _what_ they do, please?

Because Prosody core does not know how to distinguish between banquets and barbequeue chats, it'll consider all groupchats to be important. For me, who's mostly in a bunch of public noisy channels, that doesn't seem optimal.

Ge0rG: Same reason for basically everything I do. It annoyed me. I removed the annoyance.

Zash: what's "it"? Also asking for the rationale of individual actions, not your philosophical motivations

Ge0rG: I checked what kind of stanzas caused a CSI flush. 93% were groupchat messages. ~20% were from me in one chat.

I don't think I saw any CSI flushing due to it reaching the queue limit.

Zash: so you manually declared all public MUCs as unimportant?

Zash: if you can make the banquet barbecue distinction, you can easily apply different rules on those, with a "highlight only" rule for banquets

Actually, at first I just made all MUCs be unimportant. :)

Zash: awesome. You just broke the private group use case!

I added an ad-hoc command that lets you edit a list

Ge0rG: These being 3rd party addons.

Ge0rG: What's in core now however is that it does a flush when it sees that the client sent something.

I'm not using that core

Not yet

Maybe one day

Once it integrates well with smacks and clown_notify

Something something MattJ will save us

It will happen on a Monday, but nobody knows the decade.

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mls/ Anybody know what software this is?

my first HN post ever https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19542858 , I'm officially a shill or troll or something

moparisthebest: congratulations for making the front page

Why always shitposts make it, seriously people, Dox.. it's the same level as DoH

you'll get no argument from me pep. :)

Is there already a Prosody module?

yes

MattJ, https://github.com/wiktor-k/prosody-dox/blob/master/modules/mod_dox.lua

Perfect

Wait

It uses DoH :D

easier that way, already base64 :D

https://github.com/moparisthebest/jDnsProxy mine will use DNS over TCP, TLS, HTTP, or XMPP, you can pipe dns over udp over xmpp over xmpp over http if you want

Reached the top of HN :)

moparisthebest, kudos to the PR stunt

people think it’s an april’s fool

jonas’, actually, I just realized something, did you do that on purpose?

418 is "I'm a teapot" which was an april fools joke

moparisthebest, no, that just happened

ha, well, that makes it even funnier

I wonder what's the most widely supported April's fool joke. 418 seems pretty close to me

If nobody does anything with it, I'm sure all http implementation recognize it

418 like "I’m a teapot" or like XEP-0418 DoX?

The HTTP one

ah

I want this to become a thing: http://leahneukirchen.org/tmp/draft-neukirchen-ipan-00.txt

jonas’, did you see https://blog.webernetz.net/using-case-sensitive-ipv6-addressing-on-a-palo-alto/

it scrolled past me, but I didn’t click

Hey yoy

What is it

Talk me

hi fire

I from russia, ok?

I don't have a problem with it :)

Me problem

I don't know english language

Very sad, yes?

What doing this?

Hey man

fire, https://xmpp.org/

MattJ, thank @}->--

moparisthebest, where are you my dear friend?

Look is monitor

For compuster

Today is probably a good day to announce that: https://yaxim.org/blog/2019/04/01/yaxim-enters-the-matrix/

matrix sucks because I can't query DNS over it

Heh.

Yay, no new bug reports on our bug trackers

MattJ, have IM traslator for me?

moparisthebest: somebody should make.it part of the monolithic spec, and have all queries replicated among every servers

Hello

pep., like a distributed DNS ? sounds innovative

moparisthebest, hey man

moparisthebest, IM translator is live?

Bot for me

moparisthebest: so I just submitted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19544834 to compete with DoX.

Ge0rG, no news

What?

Where are body from

No body - no problem, yes?

moparisthebest, If you ran DNS over Matrix, wouldn't every DNS query be permanently stored in the servers by design?

Talk me bot for jabber for translate

English => russian Russian => english

Ok?

dwd, no idea honestly, would it?

Ok lets go

Idea for me

dwd, sounds like fun!

dwd, that has great DNS auditing opportunities

I like musik fun

jonas’, hey man!!!

jonas’, i don't know english

jonas’, yes?

jonas’, talk me

jonas’, i am listen

moparisthebest, I vaguely recall that Matrix builds conversations into a cryptographically authenticated chain (Blockchain-lite, if you like - and Matthew has been known to suggest that).

and there aren't IQ-like fleeting query-response semantics?

moparisthebest, Oh, maybe there are. But I don't know if those exist on an end-to-end basis.

I've never looked at the protocol so I have no idea, seems like it'd be useful though...

Maybe translate me

maybe someone should write an extension for it, a MEP? oh wait...

No under stand

moparisthebest, hey man

fire, so this is the XMPP Standards Foundation channel, we mostly discuss XMPP things in here, are you in the wrong place?

anyone is welcome of course, but as you see, it's not a lot of "hey, talk to me" type stuff

just to steal the topic briefly: does https://opensource.googleblog.com/2019/03/introducing-season-of-docs.html make sense for the XSF?

moparisthebest, englihs => russian *SORRY*

fire, fire up google translate or something :D

Ge0rG, It's a "Work for free because it'll be great for your portfolio" deal, isn't it?

dwd: looks like it, yeah

Also "Google!!1!"

moparisthebest, no google translate, jabber translate for me

moparisthebest, there is a jabber bot the translator for me?

not that I know of, maybe you should write one?

Why a bot and not a proxy?

moparisthebest, no, i don't know english :-D

people who don't know english can't write software?

I think that'd be a surprise to a lot of people

Programing language on english

https://www.emojicode.org/

This cool programing language?

it's not in english so you should have an easy time with it

On it write serious projects?

moparisthebest: it's a shameless ripoff! https://op-co.de/facefuck/

Subject: NEW: XEP-0419 (Improving Baseline Security in XMPP) XSF-XEP-Url: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0419.html

mmm, I should make this a pubsub service

not funny, too close to actual corporate security team's suggestions :'(

so like DoX? ;)

actually I was just joking, jerk :''''(

Hmmm. Of course, XEP-0419 should have been our anti-spam XEP.

I’m missing a reference here, why?

A '419' is one of those "Dead Prince needs your help to extract millions from the country" type scams, named for a Nigerian anti-fraud act.

ah

Like 404 XEP Not Found. We'll never be able to unroll time

XEP-0420 should be amusing though.

XEP-0420: The Answer To The Question Of {Message IDs,Handling Related Messages In Archives,…}?

I was thinking more "XEP-0420: Hey, man. WHen you think about it, like everything - I mean everything - is pubsub"

yet another reference I’m lacking?

https://www.google.com/search?q=420 should help.

I see

Too Many References

can someone remind me what *the* ribs place is called please?

fippo, Aux Pâvés de Bruxelles I think

fippo, it’s typically your chest

Ah, no circumflex. And it's closed on Mondays.

ah... next door ot the little delirium

Wait, no. It's closed on Sundays. But it's also closed now, which I don't understand.

Yes, that's it - diametrically opposite, in fact.

dwd: only one way to resolve this... visit it soon :-)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4413952466 this?

fippo, I was there two months ago. The meat sweats have almost receded.

Zash, That, indeed.

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8565.txt