XSF Discussion - 2019-04-06

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07:29:01 jonas’ pep., what is the fail?
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07:30:29 pep. Oh is that not a fail? Lifecycle on the right? If not then I'd say it's missing a bit of margin maybe
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07:31:07 jonas’ it’s not a fail, it needs a bit of padding, yes
07:35:14 jonas’ pep., FWIW, the terms come right from XEP-0001, you’d have to take it up with XEP-0001 to change them :)
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07:37:09 pep. Yeah but I have no idea what to replace them with
07:37:21 jonas’ I like "Living Standard" for Draft
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07:44:23 jonas’ now for the fun part
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07:52:10 jonas’ can someone tell me where https://xmpp.org/extensions/xmpp.css comes from? It is **not** in the attic container (<https://github.com/xsf/xep-attic/>)
07:52:17 jonas’ cc @ Kev, MattJ
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08:44:16 jonas’ derp
08:45:41 MattJ Sorry, I don't know the answer and I'm currently on my phone
08:45:56 jonas’ hm, so you probably also can’t help me with the fact that https://xmpp.org/extensions/xmpp.v2.css 404's
08:46:08 jonas’ (despite being in the xeps docker image)
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09:00:42 jonas’ I pushed a hotfix against the presentational issue, I still need a permfix on the server level
09:00:49 jonas’ (and the hotfix will take 2h or something to deploy)
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09:05:59 flow jonas’, Ge0rG: just for my notes: why was https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/752 considered not a good idea?
09:08:38 jonas’ flow, I edited to link minutes + logs
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09:08:58 flow jonas’, thanks :)
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09:11:43 flow We probably should make sure that the "Application Specific Errors for MUC" are going to get defined some day (all of them being optional as long as we don't want to bump the namespace)
09:11:58 jonas’ announced via a separate disco#info feature, yes
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09:13:35 Ge0rG > Georg proposes that Jonas writes a separate "Application Specific Errors for MUC" XEP, for having instigated this mess (with the original discussion.) 😁
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09:14:43 flow jonas’, I am usually not against adding more disco#info features, but is there any advantage besides statistics in this case?
09:14:53 jonas’ flow, not sure
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09:15:29 jonas’ it gives clients more information about what an absent application specific condition means
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09:15:37 jonas’ (undefined vs. server doesn’t support it)
09:15:57 jonas’ alternatively, we could have a <undefined-muc-condition/> thing which is always sent on MUC errors if the XEP doesn’t override it
09:16:01 jonas’ that’s nice because it’s zero-roundtrip
09:17:05 flow wouldn't you still need a feature to determine if the server is going to add <undefined-muc-condition/>? Also what if a condition becomes defined later on?
09:17:19 jonas’ for the first question: no, you’ll find that out when you receive an error
09:17:24 flow Not sure if optimzing for zero-roundtrip is a worthwile goal here
09:17:50 jonas’ for the second question: then it gets a new condition (and the <undefined-muc-condition/> vanishes of course), I don’t see a problem
09:18:31 flow I don't see a problem right now too, just wondering
09:18:40 jonas’ ok
09:18:47 flow jonas’, the important question right now is: When will you write the XEP? ;)
09:19:06 jonas’ I think "if" is the more interesting question ;)
09:19:42 flow Well if the answer is no, then I would consider taking a shot. Collaboration is welcome of course
09:19:51 jonas’ oh, go ahead please
09:19:57 flow taking a shot and stealing your ideas, of course
09:20:02 jonas’ I don’t have it high on my agenda at the moment
09:20:22 jonas’ (I actually 99.999% forgot about it until you mentioned it ;))
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09:56:00 jonas’ hotfix landed
09:56:06 jonas’ enjoy our new XEP CSS live
09:57:14 Kev jonas’: The question above, is it urgent? I don't want to look at it right now, but will if things are broken.
09:57:39 jonas’ Kev, for the attic, it’s not that urgent
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09:57:48 Kev Ta. Poke me Monday then, please.
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09:57:53 jonas’ the xmpp.v2.css 404 was urgent, but by now another docker build passed with a workaround from my side.
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09:58:08 jonas’ we can discuss it monday, too
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10:26:07 Guus Jonas, the "this document in another format" XML button directs me to a 404.
10:26:18 Guus https://igniterealtime.org:443/httpfileupload/3877f403-13bf-4374-a2dc-ed5d05681b62/SuD4T4inSqWbvnDa2sAG2w.jpg
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10:26:43 jonas’ ha, it probably always did that
10:26:49 jonas’ (I didn’t change it)
10:26:56 jonas’ well, "always", since the server crash
10:27:19 Guus Pdf does work
10:27:23 jonas’ yeah
10:27:31 Guus Yeah, I never tried that before. 😁
10:28:16 Guus Maybe remove the button if fixing it is more effort?
10:28:33 jonas’ fixing it should be easy if I can get hold of iteam
10:29:31 Guus ~~Should a http button be added? In case the document is copied somewhere, to have a reference to the original one?~~ ✎
10:29:45 jonas’ ~~ITYM "e"HTML~~ ✎
10:29:48 jonas’ ITYM "HTML" ✏
10:29:51 jonas’ I don’t think so
10:30:06 Guus Should a html button be added? In case the document is copied somewhere, to have a reference to the original one? ✏
10:30:38 Guus K.
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10:31:16 Guus I love the way this turned out. Thanks for putting in the effort!
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10:32:07 jonas’ :)
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10:32:40 Guus We should tweet about this
10:33:15 Guus Anyone able to do so now? If not, I'll find a laptop.
10:34:43 jonas’ I can’t, but good idea!
10:35:21 Guus I can, but not from mobile
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10:44:52 Guus I'll find a laptop.
10:45:07 Guus jonas’: what do you consider key improvements?
10:45:22 jonas’ ~~Guus, left-hand TOC on large screens, responsive design, modernised HTML~~ ✎
10:45:43 Seve Hey jonas’, I see your changes are now live, I haven't been able to follow all this. Nobody mentioned anything about the blue color for headers or the blue background color for the code-example class?
10:45:50 jonas’ Guus, left-hand TOC on large screens, modernised HTML and using an award-winning responsive CSS framework ✏
10:46:00 jonas’ Seve, noone did indeed
10:46:39 Seve It must be me then, the only one missing those :D
10:46:49 Seve Looks really good, thank you very much jonas’ !
10:46:53 jonas’ :)
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10:52:09 jonas’ Guus, while you’re at it, the newsletter hasn’t been tweeted yet either
10:52:42 jonas’ uh, and it’s still using the old (unfixed) logo as avatar
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11:03:53 Guus sent out two tweets
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11:36:28 Ge0rG Guus: you missed the link to the extensions 😉
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11:50:49 Guus I didn't
11:51:17 Guus I'm guessing that top level links are better SEO wise, but unsure
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11:51:39 Guus It was a deliberate choose, in any case. 😉
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11:55:08 fire Welcome guys
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11:57:23 fire No body?
11:57:50 Seve Hehe
11:57:58 pep. Yes <body/>
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11:59:38 fire Good day
12:00:08 fire pep., hey man
12:00:31 fire pep., you programmist?
12:01:31 fire I think this room for programmist
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12:03:19 fire Seve, wow, new face
12:04:40 fire Seve, I am not talk english language
12:05:10 fire Seve, have jabber bot translate for me?
12:05:26 fire Translater*
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12:06:09 fire I am from in russia
12:06:40 fire I am walk this room
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12:09:01 fire Seve, hey man
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12:21:29 fire I am look they
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12:22:41 vanitasvitae fire: this chat is not meant for casual "whats up man" chatting. It is intended for talks around the xmpp standard. In order to allow busy folks to follow the important conversations, please keep the non-standards talk to a miminum.
12:23:04 fire Don't sleep, don't sleep, don't sleep everybodu
12:23:53 fire Everybody*
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12:25:26 vanitasvitae fire, Этот чат не предназначен для случайных чатов. Он используется для обсуждения стандарта XMPP на техническом уровне. Пожалуйста, перестаньте говорить о вещах не по теме, чтобы занятые участники могли следить за важными вещами, которые написаны.
12:27:03 fire vanitasvitae, I am understand, can you help me go in casual chat?
12:29:03 vanitasvitae no, but it would work similar to how you joined this chat
12:31:20 fire I can't search casual chat
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12:34:41 Mikaela- fire: https://search.jabber.network/rooms/1
12:38:41 fire Mikaela-, yes, thank you man
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12:58:40 fire Mikaela-, this cool
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13:33:01 goffi jonas’: I'm seeing that a bit late, but thanks for the new design, it's neat.
13:33:07 jonas’ :)
13:33:10 jonas’ thanks :)
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14:43:19 moparisthebest Yep excellent work on that, I'll avoid the unnecessary highlight
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14:44:23 jonas’ thanks
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19:46:03 rion xep-0166 v0.30 "Clarified that session-accept action accepts only the content definition(s) in the session-initiate." does anyone know why it was removed in next versions?
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19:53:01 Lance I'm pretty sure that version predated the content disposition attribute. So that behaviour was to handle what would now be early-session disposition contents
19:53:25 Lance Current behaviour is session-accept only accepts content with disposition=session
19:54:06 rion content-add hs other disposition by default?
19:54:15 Lance nope. default is always session
19:55:17 Lance ~~its all related tohttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0269.html~~ ✎
19:55:22 Lance its all related to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0269.html ✏
19:56:23 rion hm. well I'm just trying to decide what's better while I have peding incoming session and remote adds more content before I accepted the session. a) send content-accept and skip this content in session-accept later b) don't send content-accept and accept everything with session-accept
19:57:30 Lance its a matter of user intent here. if the user hasn't accepted, then let it get included with the session-accept
19:58:00 Lance you would do a content-accept before the user accepts the session only for this early-session stuff
19:59:39 rion If accept everything in session-accept it becomes possible an user may accidently accept undesired content
20:00:14 rion I didn't read early media xep before
20:00:46 Lance early media is mainly for interop with telephony stuff
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20:01:37 rion it's like remote music instead of beeps ?
20:01:42 Lance yeah
20:02:09 Lance but yeah, determining what is being accepted is a small pain. and would need to be handled higher up
20:02:28 Lance like, don't enable accept button until after small delay from any content-accept
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22:29:51 pep. jonas’, btw, there's no way to not display the index? At least not without JS I assume?
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