XSF Discussion - 2019-04-29

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  29. atomicbutter

    Subscribe to this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJMr4LzZvisWnfK1Ilk2RnQ?view_as=subscriber

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  73. rion

    Hi guys. What do you think if I make a PR to jingle-s5b spec according to my remarks on wiki. It will also require advance its ns

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  75. rion

    Basically I'm going to introduce candidate-complete event with meaning no more local candidates (trickles) left.

  76. rion

    This will allow significally simplify negotiation with trickles. And the advice to put as many as possible candidates to session-initiate won't be that relevant anymore

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  82. flow

    rion, trickles?

  83. rion

    The candidates sent with transport-info

  84. rion

    Additional candidates

  85. flow

    rion, Is that term somewhere defined? I just greped the XEPs repo for it

  86. rion

    Basically it's related to ICE

  87. flow

    rion, I would suggest posting at least a strawman of your proposed changes to the standards@ mailing list, then wait for feedback and eventually create a PR

  88. jonas’

    given that this is jingle, I don’t expect any feedback on the list :(

  89. flow

    I'd also CC the authors of the xep (I suppose we are talking about xep260?), but don't expect much feedback

  90. flow

    what jonas’ said, but at leat it is archived and documented somewhere…

  91. flow

    I also would not be surprised if a namespace bump experiences some resistance. But my impression of is jingle possibly deserves an overhaul…

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  93. pep.

    There's a jingle feature arriving on dino, I'm sure they would have a look. Also there's a few clients implementing it.

  94. rion

    That's why I want to change it. I'm implementing it in Psi and found many unclear parts. But this current state of jingle-s5b forced me to implement some overcomplecated logic. I don't like it at all.

  95. flow

    ideally we would be able to bundle all changes, and not namespace bump on every single one. Smack also has some ongoing jingle work, but I don't expect it to be finished before the end of the year

  96. jonas’

    if only we had a proper staging area for updates to Draft XEPs

  97. flow

    and a staging namespace

  98. jonas’

    possibly that, too

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  100. flow


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  103. pep.


  104. rion

    +1 for semver

  105. jonas’

    they are already semver

  106. jonas’

    if the changes are non-breaking, you don’t need to bump the namespace

  107. jonas’

    so you don’t need the minor version number in the NS

  108. flow

    yep, I don't also don't see a reason to use something like semver for xmpp namespaces

  109. pep.

    jonas’: sure, I could bump major at every single change and I would also be semver compliant

  110. pep.

    But that's not really the idea

  111. jonas’

    pep., that’s not at all what I was saying

  112. rion

    Ok I'll post on ml tomorrow

  113. pep.

    jonas’: I was saying there's different readings of that spec (as there is for every spec)

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  116. rion

    Btw, I can split my proposal in two parts. First is not breaking. It just says to not send candidate-error/used until all local and remote candidates are acknowledged. And this also suppose if candidate-error/used was send by remote and we send a new candidate to remote afterwards, the remote state machine has to invalidated. It's not a requirement though. Another part is the candidate-complete event

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  145. rion

    Decided to send my thoughts now. It's on ml =)

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  271. yvo

    pdurbin, have I conviced you? Become a member :). If you are a member on the XSF conf you have dinner for free :D. Plus Cap! :-o

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  273. Zash

    <blink>FREE DINNER</blink>

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  275. rion

    Now I want to be a member too!

  276. Ge0rG

    It's only free if you live in Brussels.

  277. rion


  278. pdurbin


  279. Ge0rG

    That said, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q2_2019

  280. Ge0rG

    > Applications will be accepted until end of business May 12th, 2019

  281. yvo


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  288. Seve

    > It's only free if you live in Brussels. Not true >:(

  289. Zash

    s/Brussels/that tiny village where the restaurant is/ ? :)

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  357. yvo

    Zash yes <blink>TINY VILLAGE</blin>

  358. yvo

    Zash yes <blink>TINY VILLAGE</blink>

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  369. pdurbin

    Before I join, I'm trying to figure out if I can have a user experience I'm happy with. The big thing is history. Slack excels at this. I used Conversations over the weekend on Android and fired up a second client today, Adium on a Mac. From Adium I don't have access to my one-to-one history that happened on Conversations like I would on Slack. Is there a solution for this? Is this the fault of my XMPP provider (FSF)? Can they enable history or something?

  370. yvo

    :D pdurbin

  371. yvo

    What you are asking for is called MAM.

  372. Zash

    pdurbin: I think the problem is that Adium is outdated.

  373. j.r

    But MAM is useless with later joined OMEMO devices

  374. yvo

    With Mac you are unfortunately in a not so nice situation. You should ask for another client.

  375. yvo

    j.r I think he asks for MAM in this MUC here thus no omemo keys ...

  376. yvo

    Zash, what was again the best client under MacOS? I forgot it.

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  379. Zash

    I don't run MacOS, so I'm no authority on this.

  380. Zash

    Monal is more actively developed at least, so give that a shot?

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  383. Zash


  384. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html had more MacOS options listed than I expected

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  393. pdurbin

    Sure, I can try Monal tomorrow. Thanks!

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  399. atomicbutter

    Watch this really cool video, also subscribe to the channel! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzBhGE3w40

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  409. atomicbutter

    Watch this really cool video, also subscribe to the channel! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzBhGE3w40

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