XSF Discussion - 2019-04-30

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00:52:52 atomicbutter Subscribe to this channel and share it with your friends! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJMr4LzZvisWnfK1Ilk2RnQ?view_as=subscriber
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01:00:14 moparisthebest Can anyone ban this jerk
01:01:44 Zash Ops!
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06:36:59 jonas’ !summon MattJ
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07:11:07 MattJ I would if I knew the JID
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07:14:03 Arc heh
07:22:58 intosi /affiliation outcast atomicbutter
07:23:11 intosi My magic powers don't work ;)
07:25:50 intosi Ah, they do now. He's banned.
07:26:42 intosi Or she. Who knows.
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07:30:08 Arc anyone on who's familiar with prosody?
07:30:49 mikaela Is there some more fornal method of finding out who have power and reporting a distruption in a MUC to them or does it need digging the user list or weird magic?
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07:37:17 MattJ Arc: yes? :)
07:38:15 MattJ mikaela: your client should typically show this info
07:38:24 intosi arc: you should trust this MattJ person, he seems to know the authors of Prosody.
07:41:34 edhelas I'm not trusting MattJ, he knows those Prosody authors
07:43:44 MattJ It's something of an obsession. I know what one of them had for breakfast.
07:44:06 Guus You're not keeping them in your basement, feeding them breakfast, are you?
07:46:37 edhelas MattJ those people are doing Lua things I heard, you should be cautious
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07:51:29 Arc uh-o. i let my server certs expire again
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08:28:04 Guus Arc, fwiw, I'm seeing two of you.
08:28:09 Guus Arc and arc.
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08:29:54 pep. Let me guess, conversation using localpart and not conversation :p
08:33:34 Ge0rG Nicknames are HARD.
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08:39:22 Mill Hello.
08:41:11 MattJ Ge0rG, yes, everything is hard :/
08:41:11 MattJ Hi Mill
08:42:27 Mill I live in a very cencored country, I started using Tor recently. Any tips?
08:42:28 jonas’ https://doc.poez.io/configuration.html
08:42:54 MattJ FWIW we're looking at adding more restrictions to nicks in MUC in Prosody (so case differences only would be disallowed, as well as nicks that could be confused due to unicode, etc.)
08:42:59 Mill I am connecting through port 9150 which is on tor I think.
08:43:13 Mill Any good xmpp servers that don't log?
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08:44:44 Ge0rG There is a huge spam problem in Jabber, and servers that don't log typically can't or won't prevent outgoing spam. Trying to be anonymous is hard.
08:45:12 Mill There is wallstreetjabber.biz
08:45:27 Mill I am not sure if they really don't log
08:45:37 jonas’ you can never be sure
08:45:51 Guus Run your own server if you want to be sure!
08:46:09 Mill Well, how can i do that without revealing my location?
08:47:03 MattJ Let's break this down - what are you worried about the server logging?
08:47:19 MattJ If it's your IP/location, this is already anonymized by tor
08:47:39 Mill So I don't have to worry about the logging?
08:47:48 MattJ If it's message contents you worry about, use OMEMO or OTR (and make sure you verify your contacts' fingerprints)
08:48:09 Mill I added OTR to my client but how to add OMEMO?
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08:48:13 Mill And which is better to use?
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08:48:50 MattJ What you can't prevent is the XMPP server may log your JID (address) and the JIDs you communicate, so just make sure that address can't be linked to your offline identity
08:48:50 jonas’ depends on which client you use
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08:49:14 MattJ Both are considered secure, OMEMO tends to work better with XMPP because it supports things like multiple devices
08:49:51 Mill Alright, I am using pidgin, how do I add OMEMO to it?
08:50:21 Mill Running on a Tor/Socks5 proxy Localhost port 9150
08:50:47 jonas’ Mill, there are a few crappy plugins to choose from. from my experience, none of them work good.
08:51:26 Mill I have OTR installed. If you think pidgin isn't good, what client should I use?
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08:51:40 vanitasvitae Mill: try gajim or dino
08:52:25 Mill And is using localhost and port 9150 safe?
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08:53:56 MattJ Yes if all your traffic goes through it. I'm no tor user, I think leaking DNS may be a common issue
08:54:16 Mill I just shut tor and It's still working, did I do something wrong?
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08:54:48 jonas’ do we have protocol to mark a message as "not worthy to create a notification or mark conversation as unread"?
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08:55:04 jonas’ thinking of annotational bot replies to links
08:55:17 Ge0rG type=headline :>
08:55:19 MattJ jonas’, I'd love that
08:55:23 jonas’ Ge0rG, in a MUC?
08:55:51 Ge0rG Sure, just implement special handling in the MUC
08:58:05 MattJ Ge0rG, what about MUC->clients?
08:58:38 Ge0rG MattJ: interesting things will happen when a MUC sends type=headline to a client
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08:59:18 MattJ I'm sure
08:59:45 jonas’ pidgin will probably show a focus-stealing window \o/
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09:00:01 Ge0rG Message Hints got killed for formal reasons, more or less.
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10:10:59 Link Mauve “23:29:29 flow> Is there an easy to type character that is not valid in any JID part?”, non-breakable space is both easy to type and invalid in a JID, but gets converted into a space by stringprep.
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10:39:15 eevvoor Ge0rG, how hard are Nicknames, NP or worse?
10:45:54 pep. Worse. That needs people discussing and agreeing on things
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11:09:46 flow Link Mauve, thanks, but am I am really looking for an invalid char, not one that gets mapped into another one
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11:11:13 jonas’ flow, invalid in *all* parts && easy to type is not going to happen I’m afraid
11:11:18 jonas’ resourcepart allows pretty much all easy to type things
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11:13:47 flow hmm depends on the definition of easy to type ;)
11:14:56 jonas’ what’s your use-case?
11:19:19 flow jonas’, saving a cropus of JIDs together with their normalized forms of local- domain- and resourcepart
11:19:23 flow *corpus
11:20:03 flow and I am looking for a chracter which acts as separator of the parts
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11:20:46 flow Right now ASCII's unit separator is the best thing I came up with
11:22:27 jonas’ newline should work too
11:22:39 jonas’ pretty sure that’s invalid in all JID parts
11:22:45 jonas’ or tab maybe?
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11:22:58 jonas’ that might be allowed as input in resourcepart (before normalisation) though
11:23:02 jonas’ hm, the same might hold for newline
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11:33:17 flow jonas’, newline gets also mapped to space
11:33:21 flow in some parts at least
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11:33:22 jonas’ pity
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11:33:45 jonas’ your best bet is probably using a structured file format with escaping
11:33:50 jonas’ such as XML or JSON
11:34:00 flow jonas’, I tried to avoid that
11:34:01 jonas’ although I’d suggest to NOT use JSON because its unicode support is terrible
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11:34:40 jonas’ flow, you could base64 all the parts
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11:35:20 jonas’ or do it like ldif, base64 only those parts which contain meta-characters used in your file format and prefix those with a colon or something ;)
11:36:33 flow jonas’, my goal was that the corpus file is directly editable and viewable
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11:44:53 Ge0rG I suggest going with ASCII Record Separators.
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12:07:01 Zash > your best bet is probably using a structured file format with escaping > such as XML or JSON This is what I said.
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13:17:44 pdurbin Ok, I just installed Monal as suggested yesterday but I still can't see any history for one-to-one messages that took place on other clients. Again, Slack does this very well.
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13:19:55 jubalh is <thread> still used in <message> ?
13:20:04 jonas’ jubalh, not really
13:20:09 jonas’ pdurbin, were you using OMEMO?
13:20:46 Zash And/or does your server support archiving / MAM?
13:20:55 pdurbin I don't know. Maybe. I'm new to using XMPP again after 10 years off. I do think that perhaps Conversations especially likes to use OMEMO.
13:21:06 jonas’ yeah, it’s enabled by default by default I think
13:21:14 pdurbin How can I tell if my server (FSF's server) supports MAM?
13:21:34 jonas’ conversations tells you that, check the account settings, three-dot-menu -> show server details or something like that
13:23:12 jubalh jonas’, what was it ever used for? i dont quite get how it woul be presented visually in a client
13:23:38 jonas’ jubalh, other chat systems do have the notion of threads
13:23:53 pdurbin For the FSF server it says "XEP-0313: MAM unavailable." :(
13:24:44 jubalh jonas’, emails yeah, but was there any xmpp client having this? what did it look like?
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13:26:04 jonas’ I’m not saying XMPP
13:28:15 jubalh I read what you say
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13:28:25 jubalh i'm not blind dude
13:28:32 jubalh but did you read my question?
13:29:00 jonas’ no, there was no XMPP client
13:29:09 jonas’ as far as I know
13:29:34 jonas’ zulip is a chat system (which is not XMPP) does have threads
13:29:37 Kev Process One's allowed concurrent discussion threads.
13:29:39 jubalh I see, thanks. So it was more like in the original spec <thread> was described but this was actually never used/implemented
13:29:40 jonas’ zulip is a chat system (which is not XMPP) which does have threads
13:29:45 Kev I remember them making a big deal about it at the time.
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13:29:55 jubalh I see, I'll have to look that up
13:30:49 Zash XMPP/Jabber was supposed to bridge all the various chat systems together, and thus needed a way to transport thread info from those.
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13:33:00 jubalh ok, makes sense. i just read about it in "practical xmpp" and it sounded like it was a thing in XMPP IM. but now I understand what was meant
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13:44:49 flow IIRC (Google|Apache) Wave was also using <thread/>
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13:46:50 Ge0rG > This server could not prove that it is mail.jabber.org; its security certificate expired 2 days ago. Is that an iteam thing or a jabber.org thing?
13:48:26 Ge0rG MattJ: maybe you know? ^
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14:00:58 intosi iteam, and I'm looking at it.
14:01:09 Ge0rG intosi: thanks
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14:05:42 Ge0rG Speaking of iteam. Are we using Docker / Docker Hub for our website builds?
14:05:57 Zash I believe so?
14:06:21 jonas’ yes
14:06:22 Ge0rG https://thenewstack.io/docker-hub-compromised-users-urged-to-reset/
14:06:49 jonas’ ah yes, I meant to look into that when I got the email
14:07:35 jonas’ looks as if everything is still linked up correctly
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14:08:43 Ge0rG does that mean we were not compromised because our infra wasn't reset?
14:08:56 jonas’ didn’t they only lose some user data?
14:09:35 Ge0rG https://twitter.com/kennwhite/status/1122247298438844416
14:09:51 Ge0rG I don't know, I didn't look into it
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16:32:50 intosi The cert of mail.jabber.org has been renewed.
16:33:22 Kev Ta.
16:33:44 peter Thanks, intosi. I looked at that last night but ran into Python issues.
16:34:01 intosi Yeah, so did I. I used our mutual friend eos to help out.
16:34:21 peter aha :-)
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17:14:31 dwd Well, this is fun. I'm now unemployed.
17:14:44 jonas’ is that a good thing?
17:14:49 Guus ?
17:15:05 Guus Fashion wasn't agreeing with you?
17:15:14 Zash You solved all the problems in fashion and they didn't need you anymore?
17:15:21 dwd I didn't agree with fashion. :-)
17:15:34 dwd Zash, Actually, yes, that. We'll go along with that.
17:16:09 Guus > I didn't agree with fashion. :-) I'm no longer allowed to make that statement.
17:16:37 Guus Unemployment was unexpected?
17:17:30 dwd Well, I initiated the departure, but it's all happened mighty quick. Which is a good thing, all things considered.
17:18:11 dwd Anyway, I must go cook dinner, I just thought I'd share my Affiliation Change.
17:18:30 Guus Good luck!
17:18:32 dwd Tomorrow I get to find out who this "Jeremy Kyle" person is that everyone keeps telling me I should watch.
17:18:48 jonas’ dwd, well, good luck to you :)
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17:20:04 intosi dwd: good luck with daytime TV :)
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17:20:41 Guus I for one welcome back our project leading overlord. 😁
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18:50:25 Ge0rG So we are going to see more agendas published in time for Meetings, then? Congratulations and/or sympathies, in the appropriate mix, to dwd
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18:56:19 Guus Mix. Pun intended?
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19:17:00 Ge0rG No, I'm an evil sarcastic bastard, but sometimes I pretend to feign human emotion. And in this case I just didn't see the opportunity...
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