pdurbinI just posted this: https://discourse.opensourcedesign.net/t/restoring-chat-functionality-collaboration-with-xmpp-community/901/14
Ge0rGpdurbin: 👍
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ZashGood morning to you too
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pdurbinThe main question in my post above: Where would visual design and user experience discussions about XMPP clients take place?
ZashI would guess that here or xmpp:jdev@conference.jabber.org?join or xmpp:modernxmpp@rooms.modernxmpp.org?join would work.
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ZashTho here is more meant for protocol discussion than implementation things.
ZashIt's pretty much the same set of people regardless of where you, so maybe it doesn't matter that much :)
pdurbinHere is fine with me. :)
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Ge0rGZash: some people want to keep this place for protocol discussion only, because they tend to read up their backlogs. So it wouldbe good to separate it that way.
ZashThe modernxmpp room is probably closest in focus, altho more towards UX than graphical/visual design I guess.
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jonas’Graphics/Visual Design \subset UX
ZashI don't know how to read that
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ZashI'd imagine most kinds of design have some overlap with each other.
jonas’Graphics/Visual Design ⊂ UX
pdurbinI'd prefer this channel because it's logged.
Ge0rGLet's draw Venn diagrams all day long.
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Zashjonas’: Neat. Tho I don't have that much of a math/logic background to read that either.
ZashSomething something UX of Unicode
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jonas’Zash, "is a subset of"
jonas’or "is contained in"
ZashAnd here I say something about UX without graphics or something
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edhelasthere was a job board planned for XMPP no ?
Ge0rGedhelas: yes
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MattJpdurbin, ah, turning on logging for the modernxmpp chat is on my short-term todo, I just haven't had much time for such admin tasks recently
pdurbinI just created this "Document how to set up a Gitter-like user experience" issue as well: https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/issues/21
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WiktorIs this only about room logs pdurbin? I'd love to see xmpp web client with such high quality / UX as gitter...
ZashThe room log thing is a single purpose read-only room log view.
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Zashpdurbin: Check out https://chat.prosody.im/ or https://xmpp.org/chat
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MattJZash, maybe we could make the links buttons
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Zashmaybe
ZashCan a button be an xmpp: link tho?
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MattJJust give the <a> round borders and a background :)
ZashGo for it
MattJGuus, iirc you said you couldn't make the meeting this week, but you're the only one here. Did we agree to skip or what?
GuusI actually apologized for last week.
GuusThis week, I'm simply late 🙂
Guusbut if it's just the two of us...
MattJSeve, ping
MattJToo many nicks :)
GuusRalph is in a plane, and nyco also apologised iirc
MattJOk, we can skip then I think
Guusok
ZashSo you have free time to fiddle with that CSS then? ;)
MattJFree time?
MattJI'd like to hear more
GuusHah! Yesterday, I overheard two guys discuss prices of GPU-based cloud servers (and that they're insanely expensive).
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GuusI asked why they wanted that power. One guy laughed, pointed at the other guy, and said: "he wants to rotate a css object"
GuusI stopped asking questions at that point.
ZashAnd backed away slowly?
MattJ:D
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edhelas"he wants to run a Matrix instance for 100 users"
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eevvoorYou have weekly meetings here?
ZashYes
ZashThe XSF board has meetings here and the council has weekly meetings in xmpp:council@muc.xmpp.org?join
eevvoorAs a member should I participate in some meetings? I've applied for membership for Q2.
Ge0rGeevvoor: as a member you only must attend the quarterly membership meetings (or vote in advance), but you are allowed to listen in on any meetings
Ge0rGwe are looking for volunteers to write the meeting minutes
ZashMembers vote on membership applications, as well as applications to the board and to council.
eevvoorYou write minutes of a chat? wow. Yes I'll attend end of may of course. Thus no more duties concerning meetings, I see.
pep."but you are allowed to listen in on any meetings" you don't actually have to be a member for that
eevvoorpep. yes ;)
eevvoorWhat are your expections for a member?
ZashVote on the things. :)
ZashBeing an active participant in the community and standards process doesn't hurt of course, but you don't really need to be a member for that.
pep.You do if you want to be part of some teams that board defined I guess, but yeah otherwise you mostly don't
ZashDo you even need to be a member for those?
pep.You do vote for council and board, so you get to shape the future of the foundation :)
pep.dunno, I'd think so
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ZashThere are some kind of focus groups that can be created where I only think the chair needs to be a member, or something like that
ZashMight be different from teams tho
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eevvoorI meant it the other way round: are there situiations where you don't accept the membership application?
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Zashthere are some rules for when they should be rejected
Zashlike if there are too many from the same organization already accepted, or if it's of the wrong form
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MattJIt's very rare that someone doesn't get accepted
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jonas’Zash, you need to be a member to be an editor for example
jonas’I think at least
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MattJIs there any indication of consensus on references using bytes or... glyphs or codepoints or...?
MattJJust had possibly our first interop problem due to this 'TODO' :)
MattJ(I'm really not a fan of accepting XEPs with 'TODO' comments FWIW)
jonas’MattJ, I strongly suggest codepoints
jonas’Sam strongly suggests bytes
ZashI'd go with codepoints
jonas’given that we operate on top of XML, codepoints (or XML’s version of that) seems like the only sensible thing to do
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ZashIt would just be painful to count bytes (of UTF-8?) if your internal representation of the data is in UTF-16 or something, which isn't uncommon
jonas’yeah, think javascript
jonas’although javascript will have a pain anyways because UTF-16
jonas’adn I think we can all agree that counting UTF-16 things is the worst of all worlds
MattJIf you have a Python background then codepoints obviously make sense, if you have a C background bytes make sense, if you have a Lua background the whole thing is irrelevant because the index should start at 1
ZashCounting UTF8 bytes when you have UTF-16 seems ... not fun
ZashHhahaha
MattJIt looks like Converse.js is using codepoints
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Ge0rGA world of pain, and then there is "💩".length === 2
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ZashWell if you have UTF-16 then you get to deal with that fun
dwdIf references is counting codepoints (or even bytes) should we be normalizing the text first?
jonas’text as on the wire
jonas’otherwise you’re up for lots of fun with unicode versions
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lovetoxplease what ever i can determine with len(string) in python, thanks
jonas’lovetox, codepoints
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lovetoxand bytes makes not a lot of sense to me, because the xml comes encoded, to deal with it in any way, i have to decode it, so now i dont have bytes anymore