I just posted this: https://discourse.opensourcedesign.net/t/restoring-chat-functionality-collaboration-with-xmpp-community/901/14
Ge0rG
pdurbin: 👍
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(◠_◠✿)Demon(◕‿◕✿)
sup
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Zash
Good morning to you too
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pdurbin
The main question in my post above: Where would visual design and user experience discussions about XMPP clients take place?
Zash
I would guess that here or xmpp:jdev@conference.jabber.org?join or xmpp:modernxmpp@rooms.modernxmpp.org?join would work.
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Zash
Tho here is more meant for protocol discussion than implementation things.
Zash
It's pretty much the same set of people regardless of where you, so maybe it doesn't matter that much :)
pdurbin
Here is fine with me. :)
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Ge0rG
Zash: some people want to keep this place for protocol discussion only, because they tend to read up their backlogs. So it wouldbe good to separate it that way.
Zash
The modernxmpp room is probably closest in focus, altho more towards UX than graphical/visual design I guess.
I just created this "Document how to set up a Gitter-like user experience" issue as well: https://github.com/modernxmpp/modernxmpp/issues/21
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Wiktor
Is this only about room logs pdurbin? I'd love to see xmpp web client with such high quality / UX as gitter...
Zash
The room log thing is a single purpose read-only room log view.
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Zash
pdurbin: Check out https://chat.prosody.im/ or https://xmpp.org/chat
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MattJ
Zash, maybe we could make the links buttons
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Zash
maybe
Zash
Can a button be an xmpp: link tho?
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MattJ
Just give the <a> round borders and a background :)
Zash
Go for it
MattJ
Guus, iirc you said you couldn't make the meeting this week, but you're the only one here. Did we agree to skip or what?
Guus
I actually apologized for last week.
Guus
This week, I'm simply late 🙂
Guus
but if it's just the two of us...
MattJ
Seve, ping
MattJ
Too many nicks :)
Guus
Ralph is in a plane, and nyco also apologised iirc
MattJ
Ok, we can skip then I think
Guus
ok
Zash
So you have free time to fiddle with that CSS then? ;)
MattJ
Free time?
MattJ
I'd like to hear more
Guus
Hah! Yesterday, I overheard two guys discuss prices of GPU-based cloud servers (and that they're insanely expensive).
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Guus
I asked why they wanted that power. One guy laughed, pointed at the other guy, and said: "he wants to rotate a css object"
Guus
I stopped asking questions at that point.
Zash
And backed away slowly?
MattJ
:D
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edhelas
"he wants to run a Matrix instance for 100 users"
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eevvoor
You have weekly meetings here?
Zash
Yes
Zash
The XSF board has meetings here and the council has weekly meetings in xmpp:council@muc.xmpp.org?join
eevvoor
As a member should I participate in some meetings? I've applied for membership for Q2.
Ge0rG
eevvoor: as a member you only must attend the quarterly membership meetings (or vote in advance), but you are allowed to listen in on any meetings
Ge0rG
we are looking for volunteers to write the meeting minutes
Zash
Members vote on membership applications, as well as applications to the board and to council.
eevvoor
You write minutes of a chat? wow. Yes I'll attend end of may of course. Thus no more duties concerning meetings, I see.
pep.
"but you are allowed to listen in on any meetings" you don't actually have to be a member for that
eevvoor
pep. yes ;)
eevvoor
What are your expections for a member?
Zash
Vote on the things. :)
Zash
Being an active participant in the community and standards process doesn't hurt of course, but you don't really need to be a member for that.
pep.
You do if you want to be part of some teams that board defined I guess, but yeah otherwise you mostly don't
Zash
Do you even need to be a member for those?
pep.
You do vote for council and board, so you get to shape the future of the foundation :)
pep.
dunno, I'd think so
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Zash
There are some kind of focus groups that can be created where I only think the chair needs to be a member, or something like that
Zash
Might be different from teams tho
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eevvoor
I meant it the other way round: are there situiations where you don't accept the membership application?
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Zash
there are some rules for when they should be rejected
Zash
like if there are too many from the same organization already accepted, or if it's of the wrong form
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MattJ
It's very rare that someone doesn't get accepted
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jonas’
Zash, you need to be a member to be an editor for example
jonas’
I think at least
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MattJ
Is there any indication of consensus on references using bytes or... glyphs or codepoints or...?
MattJ
Just had possibly our first interop problem due to this 'TODO' :)
MattJ
(I'm really not a fan of accepting XEPs with 'TODO' comments FWIW)
jonas’
MattJ, I strongly suggest codepoints
jonas’
Sam strongly suggests bytes
Zash
I'd go with codepoints
jonas’
given that we operate on top of XML, codepoints (or XML’s version of that) seems like the only sensible thing to do
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Zash
It would just be painful to count bytes (of UTF-8?) if your internal representation of the data is in UTF-16 or something, which isn't uncommon
jonas’
yeah, think javascript
jonas’
although javascript will have a pain anyways because UTF-16
jonas’
adn I think we can all agree that counting UTF-16 things is the worst of all worlds
MattJ
If you have a Python background then codepoints obviously make sense, if you have a C background bytes make sense, if you have a Lua background the whole thing is irrelevant because the index should start at 1
Zash
Counting UTF8 bytes when you have UTF-16 seems ... not fun
Well if you have UTF-16 then you get to deal with that fun
dwd
If references is counting codepoints (or even bytes) should we be normalizing the text first?
jonas’
text as on the wire
jonas’
otherwise you’re up for lots of fun with unicode versions
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lovetox
please what ever i can determine with len(string) in python, thanks
jonas’
lovetox, codepoints
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lovetox
and bytes makes not a lot of sense to me, because the xml comes encoded, to deal with it in any way, i have to decode it, so now i dont have bytes anymore
moparisthebest
I propose "non-ascii unsupported" >:)
lovetox
then i pick the body, than re encode the body to utf8 then count?
lovetox
sounds shitty
jonas’
lovetox, agreed
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jonas’
lovetox, but XML implementations in C and other lower level languages will typically give you UTF-8
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MattJ
Your problems are alien to me, but I can imagine how that might be a pain
jonas’
so there’s an argument for that, too
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lovetox
yeah, sorry python noob here :/
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Ge0rG
MattJ: your language does pattern matching based on individual bytes, you are our✎
Ge0rG
MattJ: your language does pattern matching based on individual bytes, you are out ✏
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Zash
Maybe one day we'll have utf8 aware pattern matching too
moparisthebest
I think rust has it
jonas’
Zash, ITYM Unicode-aware? :(
Zash
No, I did not
Zash
Lua has some utf8-specific stuff in recent versions, but no other unicode things.