XSF Discussion - 2019-05-03

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Arc 00:42:16
*cheers* I finally got it to work, Prosody now reports whether a connection is bosh or websocket in the admin telnet
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靳龙 05:06:22
？
靳龙 05:06:37
hello
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flow 05:58:48
> dwd> If references is counting codepoints (or even bytes) should we be normalizing the text first? Yes, I think you have too
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dwd 07:18:00
flow, Right - if anything *can* normalize, everything *must* normalize - seems the general rule.
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flow 07:38:40
dwd, what's the scope of your "general rule"? It appears to me that you have to normlalize in order to identity codepoints interoperable, but usually, e.g., if you just want to exchange <body/>, you don't have to (and I believe most implementations do not)
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Arc 08:18:33
hey Zash, I sent a bundle to the -dev list. Looking for what to work on next now that I'm getting a handle on lua
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dwd 08:39:23
flow, Well, if you're reliant on counting codepoints or comparing. Normally we don't care for human text.
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jonas’ 09:05:15
flow, I think normalizing will be bad
jonas’ 09:05:39
normalizing before sending makes sense, but when receiving, you’ll have to work with exactly the codepoints used in the message
jonas’ 09:06:01
otherwise we’d have to specify which unicode version to use with References so that everyone normalizes in the same way
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flow 09:14:56
jonas’, I think both send and recipient have to normalize if something xep message markup is used
jonas’ 09:15:17
why?
flow 09:15:25
nothing gurantees that the way the sender emitted the UTF-8 will be preserved
jonas’ 09:16:23
err..... what?
jonas’ 09:17:13
you are saying that there is (aside from intentional modification) no guarantee that the sequence of codepoints I put in an XML element in XMPP arrives as exact that sequence at the receiver?
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Kev 09:22:31
That's certainly true in some cases, yes.
Kev 09:22:50
e.g. where the element has attributes that are JIDs, an entity might very reasonably normalise en route.
jonas’ 09:25:33
Kev, and <body/>?
Kev 09:26:15
It wouldn't surprise me, at least.
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dwd 09:31:38
jonas’, Well, while I don't know of any implementations that do normalize, there's absolutely nothing in the specifications that says implementations MUST NOT normalize.
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jonas’ 09:44:32
in that case, normalisation needs indeed to be specified, both on the sending (before calculating the offsets) and the receiving side (before matching the offsets)
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flow 09:49:29
jonas’, I thank there is nothing that guarantees that this will *not* happen, so I better be safe than sorry here
flow 09:49:32
*think
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MattJ 10:09:12
I'm inclined to agree
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jubalh 11:11:42
I suppose ignoring of users in MUCs and of jids that write to you 1:1 is done by clients. one doesnt tell the server to "dont deliver messages from X", right?
Ge0rG 11:13:58
jubalh: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0191.html for 1:1
jubalh 11:14:19
thank you Ge0rG
dwd 11:17:01
Thinking about it, anytime that data is served from a database rather than simply switched through, probably has been normalized.
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Ge0rG 11:22:26
except when the database is a legacy mysql?
jonas’ 11:23:23
dwd, right, archives
dwd 11:23:46
jonas’, Exactly.
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Niraj 11:53:32
mimi89999
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mimi89999 12:03:15
Yes?
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MattJ 12:08:42
We need to create some kind of inline syntax that allows you to apply arbitrary semantics to certain bits of text
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pep. 12:10:01
That'd be great, but we need to make sure it's not too verbose
edhelas 12:11:00
I need to mark those ideas down
MattJ 12:11:31
I was actually thinking of marking them up
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Ge0rG 12:15:36
I prefer to mark them right.
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edhelas 12:19:29
better use a marker for that
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mimi89999 12:25:41
What are you inventing?
MattJ 12:28:33
Some generic markup language
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mimi89999 12:30:33
What will it be used for?
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MattJ 12:31:09
The stuff listed here: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html#usecases
MattJ 12:31:19
and much more!
pep. 12:32:30
I think we need something that looks like a language we all know, but not too close either
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pep. 12:33:28
Javascript seems like a language we would all know. I'm sure that would make a good markup language
pdurbin 12:41:56
I sure hope someone approves the message I sent last night to https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/juser
pep. 12:42:20
Does that need approval?
MattJ 12:43:14
juser still exists, wow
pdurbin 12:44:41
"Your message to JUser awaits moderator approval"
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mimi89999 12:47:47
`<body>But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and <reference type='mention' uri='xmpp:juliet@capulet.lit'>Juliet</reference> is the sun.</body>`
mimi89999 12:47:52
Why is this bad?
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pdurbin 12:49:47
Does anyone here know a moderator for that list?
Zash 12:51:15
mimi89999: body is defined as having only text content
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mimi89999 12:53:00
s***
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mimi89999 12:53:57
How can we be sue that the offset will always be the same?
pep. 12:54:25
That's what's being discussed
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pdurbin 13:10:48
I guess I'll wait. Maybe a week. Then I'll ask how to get my post approved.
pep. 13:13:49
I'm not sure who has access, board members?
MattJ 13:14:02
No
pep. 13:14:02
iteam?
pep. 13:14:09
I think Seve had access to some of it?
MattJ 13:14:11
Some subset of iteam
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pdurbin 13:35:53
Thanks. Is there a URL for iteam? I can't find it.
MattJ 13:39:20
I don't think so
MattJ 13:39:30
There is a MUC, but I think everyone in it is also in here
Zash 13:39:50
https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/infrastructure-team ?
Zash 13:40:16
all outdated of course
MattJ 13:41:40
Someone should file an issue about that
MattJ 13:41:56
(only kidding, please don't)
Zash 13:42:05
There's an issue tracker for that?
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Zash 13:43:06
I'll file an issue about sending you an email about filing an issue about fixing that.
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Ge0rG 13:47:18
pdurbin: the easiest and fastest way is to subscribe, then re-send
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pdurbin 14:02:49
Thanks for the URL. I'm not sure why resending would help.
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MattJ 14:08:13
I think Ge0rG is suggesting that it only requires manual approval if you're not subscribed to the list when you send
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MattJ 14:08:28
which is the case with most of our lists I think, so probably that one too
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pdurbin 22:05:24
I was already subscribed when I tried to post my message. I guess I'll keep waiting. :(
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