help plsso basically i got doxed and they posted it on a website. they told me tto contact xmpp to get it deleted
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ZashThis is not the place for that.
help plswhere do i go then
jonas’help pls, did they give you an address?
vanitasvitaeXmpp is a protocol
ZashThis is where we discuss the protocol itself.
vanitasvitaeThey probably meant to contact them *via* xmpp
help plsHOW DO I INSTALL THAT I DONNT HAVE A BRAINN
vanitasvitaeLike in "via mail"
help plsyh
help plsthey told me that but idk how can someone call me and help
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help plsok nice help
vanitasvitaeYou havent really specified, how we can help you :D
help plsI GOT DOXED AND I WANT THEM TO DELETE IT BUT THEY WONT. they told me to contact kt@neko.im
help plshe said "XMPP is kt@neko.im."
flowhelp pls, that is like saying "my cell number is 555-1234"
help plsnice help
jonas’help pls, i.e. contact kt@neko.im
help plsHOW DO I CONTACT THEM
jonas’how did you join this room?
ZashI'm guessing the web chat
help plsthey told me to go on this site
help plsthats all
jonas’ah, web chat makes sense
ZashWell you would need to get an actual account somewhere.
jonas’help pls, XMPP is like E-Mail for chat. This is a room to discuss how to develop XMPP. That means, we are in no way affiliated with neko.im or your doxxer.
jonas’To communicate with another user using XMPP, you need an account.
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help plsHOW DO i make an acc
help plsu all confusing why this even a thing
jonas’help pls, for example here: https://magicbroccoli.de/register/
help plsfuck doxbin
ZashKinda sounds like something to talk to the police about tho
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jonas’that’s true
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help plsimma get that site closed
help plshow do i report websites
help pls?
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jonas’help pls, your local police department
jonas’will be able to help you
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moparisthebestjonas’: after having conquered xmpp in sed, what about xmpp in css? https://github.com/kkuchta/css-only-chat
jonas’nah
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Ge0rGxmpp in css with a server-side awk module
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jonas’it’s not like I hadn’t written a simple HTTP servlet in sed yet ;)
moparisthebestSed could be the backend
moparisthebestCould be the future of web development
ZashNah, implement a Lua interpreter in sed, then run Prosody on it with a mod_c2s_css
moparisthebestCss frontend, sed backend
moparisthebestSomehow still better than JavaScript
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fippoge0rg: have you (with council hat and speaking german) heard anything about https://twitter.com/katarinabarley/status/1126122186840989696 ? cc tobias
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mikaelaHi, this would probably be the place to ask where should I open an issue proposing something similar to Mastodon's rel=me verification for confirming that users on XMPP are who they claim to be?
https://indieweb.org/rel-me#Mastodon
(However that is probably more of an issue at Matrix, but I think XMPP already implements profiles with URL fields that it would depend on)
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ZashProfiles can have URLs, yes.
mikaelaIs anything checking if those URLs link back to XMPP or would proposing doing that be possible somewhere?
ZashI don't know if anything uses them for anything other than display in an user profile screen
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Ge0rGfippo: I'm not aware of any official contact to us. I'm sure by "messenger services" she means the proprietary silos with billions of users, not the federated zombie of a protocol that we maintain...
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fippoge0rg: "dear facebook, please advise how to break your hold on the messenger space"? :-)
Ge0rGIt might be a good idea to have Board nominate a German speaking XSF representative to contact the ministry. OTOH there is the Freie Messenger initiative that tries to create such contact with little effect so far
Ge0rGfippo: that's probably how it's going to end up
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Ge0rG> It might be a good idea to have Board nominate a German speaking XSF representative to contact the ministry. OTOH there is the Freie Messenger initiative that tries to create such contact with little effect so far
Guus, MattJ, ralphm?
GuusGe0rG: I need more context, but am otherwise engaged now. Can you email?
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GuusIs this what Daniel responded to, via twitter?
fippoguus: yes
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ralphmAs a EU citizen, I'm sure that according to EU regulations, I'm allowed to address the Ministry in my native language.
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ralphmOr English.
ZashThat sounds like a thing the EU would mandate
jonas’ralphm, a german ministry?
fippostill looking for more context on the original quote. like... a video
mikaela> As a EU citizen, I'm sure that according to EU regulations, I'm allowed to address the Ministry in my native language.
If your native language is an official EU language, I think yes
ralphmGe0rG: Also, I'd ok for a native German speaker to list me as contact on behalf of the XMPP Standards Foundation as its Chair.
Ge0rGOmr2019 seems to be a festival in Hamburg that happened yesterday and today.
ralphmAnd finally, we have Alex.
ralphmWho is our Secretary.
Ge0rGralphm: it might be much faster and less bureaucratic to talk in German to a German ministry. Just saying.
ralphmIf you'd just stop dubbing foreign media, we'd be in a much better place.
Ge0rGralphm: I'm sure that it's possible to talk to Ms. Barley regarding a EU regulation in that context, but her being a German electee, and with the upcoming election, I don't know how much she'd listen to foreign citizens.
ZashCan't you vote for any candidate in the entire EU?
ralphmNo
ZashMust have misunderstood something then.
ralphmBut yeah, not listening to people outside of your own country seems to be very common in the EU.
jonas’that’s progress over "(not) listening and waging war on them" at least
ralphmZash: people vote for national candidates to represent them in the EU parlement.
ralphmjonas’: meh
Ge0rGralphm: Barley is also prominent for not listening to German population, to the contact that her party made with the other governing party, and to the members of her own party.
Ge0rG*contact
Ge0rG*contract
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Ge0rGAnyway, I happen to have that little status symbol called Ph.D, which is a significant factor of respect for old school German politicians, I can be sufficiently eloquent in writing, I don't have a desire to push my private pet projects, and I volunteer to represent the XSF
jonas’ralphm, I find Ge0rGs suggestion all over all rather sensible. Communicating in german with a german ministry might be the way to go
Ge0rGGuus [22:10]:
> Ge0rG: I need more context, but am otherwise engaged now. Can you email?
I'm not sure I can manage that in advance to tomorrow's board meeting
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ralphmWell, I'm not going to be able to be in the meeting tomorrow, because I'm flying, but if you sent a message to board we can vote on list
Ge0rGIsn't it sufficient to have it on trello?
Ge0rGralphm [22:33]:
> if you sent a message to board
That awakes sad memories about badly configured mailing lists.
ralphmIt would be nice to have a bit more context then a oneline summary with links to german things
ralphmGe0rG: that has been resolved, too
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ralphmPeople now watch the moderation queue
Ge0rGOf board@?
Ge0rGI'll try to manage a mail tomorrow morning, thanks.
ralphmThanks!
ralphmAnd, as I wrote on Twitter, I'm not sure if regulation to enforce interop will yield a desirable outcome.
ralphmI mean sure, it would be great to have all of them connected, preferably using XMPP, but I'm not convinced it would resolve the silo issue much.
Ge0rGMaybe not banning users for using an unofficial client would be a good start already.
ralphmThat has nothing to do with interop between services
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Ge0rGIndirectly.
ralphmIn fact, if you'd use federation for getting there, it would mean they'd have to open up all the features of their app to be able to be used in a federated setup, which I think is not attainable by legislation.
ralphmYou couldn't make Snapchat, for example.
ralphmThe only reason it kinda works, is because they have control over the client.
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ralphmOnce you allow 3rd party clients, or federation, you can no longer ensure stuff is deleted.
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ralphmThere are many cases like this. E.g. deleting messages you sent to a contact in Whatsapp works by asking the receiver to delete.
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Ge0rGralphm: and don't even start thinking of E2EE
ralphmSo then the question becomes: what are you *actually* asking for.
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ralphmI'm not interested in pyrrhic victories.
Ge0rGralphm: message deletion is probably the only relevant case, and that's easily circumvented by screenshotting
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ralphmI'm not saying those features are waterproof.
ralphmThere's a difference between screenshotting and being able to create a legitimate client or federated service that doesn't adhere to deletion instructions.
ralphmAs soon as you allow federation, laying down restrictions or terms of use is almost impossible.
ralphm3rd party clients are slightly easier to litigate, maybe
ZashIt would be doable to restrict such features to approved local clients.
Ge0rGralphm: is your point that somebody must define a useful subset of functionality to implement everywhere, or is it that every provider will create arguments why their system must be exempted from federation?
ralphmZash: what does that mean for Snapchat?
Zashralphm: Self-destructing messages not leaving their own service.
ralphmZash: but the whole point of Snapchat is self-destructing messages.
ralphmIf the only way to use that service is by being local, it is not interoperable.
ZashThat's the trade-off, yes.
ralphmAnd would then not comply with legal requirements to interoperate, if that's mandated.
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ralphmSo, you have to be really careful in figuring out what you ask for.
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ralphmGe0rG: I'm afraid that it might only interoperate on paper, and not in reality.
Ge0rGralphm: this is very much related to my second point
ralphmGe0rG: right. The problem is that problems like this will be presented as attempts to frustrate innovation, and that usually ends in paper tigers.
XSF Discussion - 2019-05-08