XSF Discussion - 2019-05-16

I want three layer parallax scrolling, and an interactive shooter game easter egg

wazzup guys

Zash, it doesn’t work for inbox though

Did those go through a different pipeline?

Or, paths?

probably paths

Is here somebody in academia? I am thinking about research in the XMPP area and are happy about collaborations.

eevvoor, There have been researchers working on/with XMPP before - I think there was a guy a couple of years back who put together a list of papers and things.

dwd, do you remember his name

Looks like the effort died (and it was longer ago than I thought) http://www.xmppresearch.org/

Didn't some researchers visit a recent summit?

thx very much dwd

Zash, That was those guys. And you, too, are old. :-)

iirc one of the people that is currently signing up as an XSF member mentions academic research in his application

And if I'm not mistaken, various of our German members are either employed or studying at universities.

pdurbin, weren't you too?

Flow is a researcher but does all XMPP stuff in his free time.

pdurbin is a programmer in science but no scientist ;)

maybe you can re-ignite http://www.xmppresearch.org/ 🙂

try to :) Guus

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q2_2019 Waar vind ik iirc Guus? Ik zie hem niet.

Batman's a scientist.

"iirc" is an acronym, not a nickname: "if I remember correctly"

eevvoor: what do you want to collaborate with someone on? What are your research interests?

pdurbin, i.e. currently, as I've told you already, CQL-requests to search-engines (ElasticSearch, solr, Lucene). But I am generally interested which scientific research is going on about XMPP. Formal investigations would also be fruitful. ✏

Do you have a webpage of your research interests?

pdurbin, no

Guus dus wie is nu iirc? :D

How about an ORCID id?

I should put more information on my orcid landing page: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-9528-9470

eevvoor: there seems to be some research about using xmpp in it security event reporting

eevvoor: I'm also interested in the topic, maybe also in the context of IoT

There's a guy at work who will be presenting an idea next week about using ActivityPub as a replacement for OAI-PMH (a protocol we use to "harvest" content from one site to another) but XMPP could probably be used for this as well. Here is what he has written so far: https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/PP6iDKQqXMy8uH016MnH0hIE/

pdurbin: yes XMPP could be use for sure, also I've checked quickly the pad, it states that Diaspora is using ActivityPub which is false (it's using its own protocol).

Guus, shouldn’t you be the one to ignite things? ;)

goffi oh I though they moved to ActivityPub as well ?

edhelas: as far as I know they didn't, there are discussion on it but they still use their own protocol. But I'm not following this closely to be honest.

jonas’ I'm igniting things all over

(I might be missing context?)

ooohhhh - _late_ response to my re-ignite remark.

Guus, very late :)

Guys looks like I will be able to follow the meeting a bit, but not participating 100%

so you can apologise about your apology?

0. Welcome + Agenda

Who? What?

_o/*

hi

https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

Hey

nyco: clever nyco, by now you should know this item is to ensure everything is on there.

are the "Awaiting feedback" and "Backburner" columns useful?

I think so

Was a meeting had last two weeks? I haven't seen minutes.

So who is right about Diaspora? Uses ActivityPub or not?

I missed the two last weeks (vacations), sorry

pdurbin: can you wait until after the Board Meeting?

we skipped the oldest, we had a brief meeting last week.

pdurbin: (shouldn't be more than 30 min)

Guus: highlights?

I was talking to myself, mostly, iirc.

Yes

http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2019-05-09?p=h

Thank you

Ok.

1. Minute taker

<fast-forward 5 minutes of silence>

I'll do dat

Yay

Thanks MattJ

2. What happens when a typo is fixed in a deferred XEP

From the brief reading of last weeks meeting, there is going to be a new approach

I think we can archive this?

Kev mentioned last week that jonas’ is working on improvements.

(until that new thing arrives?)

Or at least move it to Awaiting

Ok

3. Server setup

I'm fine with either approach

MattJ: let's set a time to discuss this (oob)

+1

4. Tigase logo use

as a side note: do we have an uptodate inventory of what servers we have?

No

I'm catching up on stuff since PyCon, and will send them an e-mail.

(maybe take that on as part of said disucssion?)

Guus: good suggestion.

Guus, it's one of my top priorities

5. Reach out strategy

I think we should pick this up. Last week at PyCon I found many people asking about (my) XMPP (hoodie), and we should do better at having these use cases known.

I think there's much benefit to be had here, but am unsure how to proceed.

marketing intern?

I feel we need some other way to work on that item, not sure if we have enough with weekly meetings. Maybe some blank papet somewhere and start writing thoughts there

nyco: not sure. I think e.g. our communications team already has some better view on this

we're developers, have real mkt persons can definitely help

But I'd first ask the community to come up with known uses of XMPP so we can put them up.

sure, great but then what?

shape it, deliver it, spread the word

nyco: yes

ralphm, I don't think we need to ask for more potential parties to communicate with.

do we have that capacity internally?

We have a couple of good ones that we can start with

as nyco said, the 'what's next' thingy is more of a challenge than figuring out who to approach.

I think expanding https://xmpp.org/uses/ with cases originating (and approved by) with such projects.

E.g. we know that Fortnite uses XMPP, they've blogged about it. I'd like a testimonial from them.

what analytics do we have?

I mean, what's the traffic on that page? subpages? what CTA?

This is also something I would like us to try, get testimonials from "big players"

ralphm I suggest we pick and choose one party, and start figuring out how we could get from them what we'd like (such as testimonials).

maybe not start with the highest-value party, in case we mess up?

our members first

nyco I'm not aware of analytics being available for our webpage. Bear once compiled stuff from access logs, but that was a once-off, as far as I know.

I suggest Matomo to the iTeam

But we also discussed if we could offer something to them (what could we do for them to accept writing those testimonials)

nyco if feel that we're perhaps discussing different things?

that's the point, if we offer exposure, we have to deliver our numbers and optimise them (growth)

ah, like that.

Guus right on track

unsure if that's super critical, to be honest.

I'm wondering if we should start out with having that all fully fleshed out.

I don't think Fortnite benefits from being on our website, no matter how poorly/brilliantly it's being visited.

what's the point trying to "communicate" and expose use cases if we don't measure?

If we're starting with out membership, I think we should be able to get some testimonials without any strings attached.

+1, I think that's a sensible start

members and sponsors should be able to provide their uses cases, that's a win-win for all

ralphm I don't understand what you're suggesting.

nyco: I first want a place to point people and surprise them with XMPP not being dead

Very happy about this!

I admire loftier goal, but not right now.

Guus, I think a simple "Call for use-cases/testimonials" to members@

Going in the right direction!

agree, "XMPP is not dead" in another shape, can be a good starting point

members _and_ sponsors

MattJ ACK. tx

what sponsors?

ah

Ok, who offers to write a call for testimonials?

I can do that, if no-one takes that on.

I can help

I'd say the result for now should be a single paragraph, including the product name, and an estimate of the user base. Possibly with a link to a more elaborate (self-hosted) page.

then do a signifcant list

I'm not sure about how to specify the user base. I telcos they use things like MAU, which is recognisable?

just gotta explain the meaning

Monthly Active Users

yes

I'm also kind of interested in concurrently connected, but that's probably to detailed.

aka number of users who got active at least once during last month

Also, if it is not end users, but devices, the same goes. (MAD :-) )

people will simply name 'users' in whatever context is relevant to the project, I think.

(some say "organisations converted")

Guus: "some indication of user activity, e.g. MUA or average concurrently connected users)

(when they are ashamed of the active userbase)

Mail User Agent ?

MAU of course

MRR as well, maybe

Other suggestions for Guus and nyco's Call?

Just keep it simple :)

yes, very much this.

We can always ask for more info on individual responses if needed

Just having the responses is a great start

Let's draft it, send it to Board, and then send it out before next meeting.

ok

ok

Yay!

Indeed

Cool

6. Compliance badges

Where are we?

last time, i promised to poll members

which I didn't do yet

(we've passed 30 min meeting)

ok, moving to next week

I just added a trello card on the commitments lane for that

7. Messenger Regulation

I think this item is about efforts to regulate companies to open up their respective messengers

e.g. by mandating federaion

No, this is about trying to work with the german government.

and establish a direct line of communication about XMPP.

Guus: I believe what I wrote is the bigger picture. The thing we discussed with Ge0rG last week?

one might follow from the other, but need not.

I'd suggest we first try to get our foot in the door

What is action item at this point in time?

Starting a dialog in itself will be tricky enough.

"assign someone to make contact with the German government."

to quote Georg:

> who is representing the XSF, to contact the appropriate ministry and establish a permanent contact at the working-level, to ensure that Open Standards are established as the foundation for interoperation, and maybe even to make XMPP the best-suited standard.

I'd be happy to take on this action, but would need guidance on who (exactly) to approach.

Ge0rG suggested this to be picked up by a German national

(Given we lack a Executive Director, I think the Chair is probably the next in line)

> because German politicians don't listen much to foreigners

Sure. As I mentioned before, we have one German citizen as Director: Alex. I could work with him and Ge0rG?

sounds good.

great

I'm hoping that Ge0rG has ideas on how (and who) to approach this.

Right

mentioning Ge0rG repeatingly in the hope that he pitches in now does not seem to have the desired effect so far though...

He's currently away

for another week

Ah, true.

I talked to him earlier, but sure 🙂

ah

Ok, I think that's it for today.

8. AOB

I haven't seen any.

9. Date of Next

+1W

10 Close

Thanks all!

Wow, great! Thank you all!

thx

pdurbin: the floor is open again :-)

thanks, byes!

Thanks :)

nyco: thank you!

minutes sent, please correct me where I'm wrong

I put out a PR for updating our current list of sponsors.

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/567

So who is right about Diaspora? Does it use ActivityPub or not?

Guus, yes, I hope to work on the improvements soon-ish

pdurbin: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/7422 so it's only discussed and they still use their own protocol.

goffi: ok, thanks!

Subject: [editor] XSF: Invitation to connect with M-Sec Project (XEP)

did this somehow reach the board?

https://trello.com/c/hZW01mu3/351-invitation-to-connect-with-m-sec-project

jonas’: Board has not been contacted, at least as a whole, thank you for letting us know. Could you please also forward it to board@xmpp.org?

Seve, done, I’m not sure I’m allowed to send to that list (which is why I made a trello item in the first place)

jonas’: I'm also a moderator of the list, no problem, and thank you very much

\o/