XSF Discussion - 2019-05-26

  1. pep.

    "Accepted"? (I guess if this discussion happens again there will be plenty enough bikeshed). I also agree anyway

  2. jonas’

    Accepted is Experimental though

  3. Zash

    Try harder to push Draft to Final?

  4. jonas’


  5. jonas’

    s/Draft/Living Standard/?

  6. Zash

    Live Testing

  7. Zash

    Please Implement!!!!1eleven

  8. flow

    Mature? Stable?

  9. flow

    Zash, I don't see the point in the 'final' state FWIW

  10. jonas’

    final means immutable, there might be some value in that or not

  11. Zash

    But things never stop changing unless they are dead. So it's kinda weird.

  12. Zash

    What do you do with an immutable XEP when the requirements inevitably change a decade later?

  13. jonas’

    RFCs don’t change

  14. Zash

    RFCs get replaced

  15. jonas’

    I think the same idea was for Final initially, too

  16. jonas’

    (and maybe still is)

  17. Zash

    IETF has Internet-Drafts which are almost like our Experimental. Then it maybe gets published as an Experimental or Propsoed RFC, which is sorta like our Draft. Then you go back to I-D and roll in tweaks based on experiences, which gets published as another type of RFC

  18. Zash

    Tho you can roll in new experiences in Draft XEPs, but with more friction due to Council

  19. Guus

    I agree that it might be good to adopt a terminology that leans less heavily towards the "this isn't done yet" side. It's off-putting, and can be taken as a sign that there's no maturity to the stack.

  20. Zash

    RFC 3920 is "Proposed"

  21. Zash

    Wait RFC 6120 is also "PROPOSED STANDARD"

  22. Zash

    HTTP/1.1 is a draft standard

  23. Zash

    I think the thing is that nobody looks in that corner

  24. theTedd

    the issue is that what we mean by 'Draft' isn't how the word is usually used, and if you have to go out of your way to explain the way you're using a word, maybe you should just use a different word

  25. theTedd

    we want to imply "ready for use" as opposed to "a bit rough, but nearly there"

  26. jonas’


  27. theTedd

    this has come up before, of course

  28. Zash

    Many times

  29. theTedd


  30. jonas’

    so that it ends up in content filters :)

  31. theTedd


  32. theTedd


  33. Zash

    Isn't that Final?

  34. theTedd

    Stable doesn't rule out changes, Final i supposed to

  35. Zash

    Or, just do away with the words and use numbers.

  36. theTedd

    I'm not sure that would help - people will take the highest number as final and anything less as unfinished

  37. Zash

    That's how XEP version numbers work already

  38. Zash

    0.x = experimental, 1.0 = STABLE! (draft), 2.0 = immutable forever