Link Mauve“14:29:44 Zash> jonas’, I wish for more XEP-0288”, how ready is mod_bidi to be included and enabled by default for Prosody 0.12?
ZashIt works fine and has for years.
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Link MauveBy default is the keyword here.
ZashIt just feels like a giant hack to me, I wish it was native
Link MauveIt may become native in a future version, but it would probably be nice to have it included earlier.
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Ge0rGCan we also get s2s 0198 in the same reign?
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HolgerI think the interaction of bidi and 0198 can be ... interesting. Even more so with multi-domain and Dialback support.
HolgerWhat's the selling point of bidi again?
jonas’Holger, asymmetric s2s failures are extremely weird
jonas’and with bidi you don’t have those
Link MauveAlso reduced resource usage due to there being only one socket and thus one TLS wrapper, instead of two.
Holgerk. I'd clearly agree if we were designing s2s from scratch. Now I'm unsure whether you're not just exchanging weird failures with other weird failures.
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vanitasvitaeA colleague of mine just ranted about Pidgin and noted, that there is not a single modern xmpp client for windows.
Ge0rGand is there?
vanitasvitaeI ended up recommending conversejs to him and he seems quite pleased with it.
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olihow is conversejs a windows client? ;)
ZashStick it in an Electron wrapper
Ge0rGthe e-word! 🙈
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olidon't mention the el...
ZashThat's how all True Modern clients work, isn't it?
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vanitasvitaeHe was amazed that he doesnt even have to install anything :D
oliI think Telegram is QT and C++
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oliBut most true modern clients are Electron apps, like Whatsapp (130 MB for compressed installer).
Ge0rGconverse.js is only 1.6MB compressed javascript
vanitasvitaeHe ended up setting converse up as a chrome app
olihow do I install it as a PWA?
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moparisthebestvanitasvitae: what about gajim and dino?
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PresidentGajim in Windows is good. Dino is only for Linux.
moparisthebestI don't think so...
moparisthebestI know people have ran Dino in windows
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PresidentCan you point me to Dino Windows download page?
pep.President, it's "just" that there is no official build for it :)
moparisthebestfor example https://github.com/dino/dino/pull/304
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PresidentI am not able to find the Dino unofficial build .exe file for Windows 10 from the above website.
website https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/306
says "There are no "clear instructions" on how to build Dino for Windows at this point, because Dino won't work sufficiently well under Windows right now."
Maybe you can kindly build a .exe file Dino for Windows 10 for us to try?
moparisthebestI wouldn't advise anyone to use windows at all personally
PresidentI have to agree with you Windows should not be used.
ZashNor should iOS
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Zashor Android
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ZashIn fact, don't use computers!
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João:-D
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President> Nor should iOS
> or Android
> In fact, don't use computers!
Then, what should we use every day ?
moparisthebestlinux, I recommend Arch :)
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ZashUse? Dunno, a plow maybe, and plant some potatoes.
PresidentArch linux takes too much work to install and causes me headache when upgrade.
Farmer's life of planting potatoes may be amazing and far healthier than staying in front of the computer every day.
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pep.I was outside the whole afternoon visiting places/things, couldn't stop sneezing. I think nature is trying to send me a message, "don't stay outside too much" (or maybe I just have allergies).
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Sevevanitasvitae, there's also https://www.miranda-ng.org/en/ only for Windows
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President> I was outside the whole afternoon visiting places/things, couldn't stop sneezing. I think nature is trying to send me a message, "don't stay outside too much" (or maybe I just have allergies).
Too bad. I hope nature will be more friendly to you next time.
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vanitasvitaeSeve: yeah miranda is used in our offices too.
vanitasvitaeStill, not a "modern" UI either.
moparisthebestdefine "modern UI" ?
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olimodern UI: everything jammed in a hamburger menu
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oliuser interface design guidelines are irrelevant
olieverything has to be big
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Ge0rGLike a touch screen app, but more dumbed down
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moparisthebestI seriously want to know though
ZashEverything's an app these days
moparisthebestI like Conversations on my phone, but I certainly don't want the same UI on my desktop
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moparisthebestI figured people who wanted a "modern UI" on the desktop had something in mind
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ZashI'm sorta sad that the thing Empath and Gnome did with chat being something provided by the environment didn't take off
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Zash+y
jonas’that thing from where the "don’t do multiprotocol" rant comes from?
ZashCorrect
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Ge0rGI'd kill for _native_ applications, even on windows. Microsoft got multiple decades of experience designing widgets and making them accessible and keyboard navigation enabled
Ge0rGAll third party toolkits emulate that, badly
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Ge0rGAnd developers prefer to impress their users for five minutes with nicely colored image buttons instead of enabling them to use the application effectively for years.
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moparisthebestI'm cautiously optimistic about webasm
moparisthebestrather than javascript being used all over the web and also to make 'native' apps which are just javascript websites in a native frame
moparisthebestyou can write native apps that also happen to run in web browsers
Zashhttps://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript comes true after all?
Zashmoparisthebest: tho webasm doesn't do that and you'll never have true "write once, run everywhere" because platforms are different and you can't make a single gui work nicely everywhere
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moparisthebestthey can share *most* code though, and that code doesn't need to be javascript, that's the big win in my book
ZashDidn't emscripten do that alreday or are you only thinking of some sort of binary thing?
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ZashSeomething something Java applets
moparisthebestwell emscripten compiled to javascript, but I'm looking forward to a world without javascript :P
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, it makes no functional difference though.
Link MauveYou could still write your code in any language which has a LLVM backend with Emscripten.
Link Mauveedhelas, you still haven’t fixed your CSN bug, fyi.
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moparisthebestmaybe, it just leaves me hopeful that maybe one day web browsers won't support javascript anymore, only webasm :)
moparisthebesta man can dream
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, so every website would ship a JavaScript interpreter compiled to wasm?
Link MauveYou’ve forgotten one of the main rules of the web: don’t break existing websites.
Zashor so everything would ship binaries and the original way a bunch of people got into programming would no longer exist?
moparisthebestno by then everyone's moved to Rust of course
Link Mauvemoparisthebest, are you volunteering to rewrite every single existing website to Rust?
Zashaltho learning html and js via "view source" hasn't worked for some time now
moparisthebestmost of them rewrite themselves weekly anyway don't they?
Link MauveSome haven’t been rewritten since the 90s.