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Link Mauve
“14:29:44 Zash> jonas’, I wish for more XEP-0288”, how ready is mod_bidi to be included and enabled by default for Prosody 0.12?
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Zash
It works fine and has for years.
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Link Mauve
By default is the keyword here.
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Zash
It just feels like a giant hack to me, I wish it was native
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Link Mauve
It may become native in a future version, but it would probably be nice to have it included earlier.
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Ge0rG
Can we also get s2s 0198 in the same reign?
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Holger
I think the interaction of bidi and 0198 can be ... interesting. Even more so with multi-domain and Dialback support.
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Holger
What's the selling point of bidi again?
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jonas’
Holger, asymmetric s2s failures are extremely weird
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jonas’
and with bidi you don’t have those
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Link Mauve
Also reduced resource usage due to there being only one socket and thus one TLS wrapper, instead of two.
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Holger
k. I'd clearly agree if we were designing s2s from scratch. Now I'm unsure whether you're not just exchanging weird failures with other weird failures.
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vanitasvitae
A colleague of mine just ranted about Pidgin and noted, that there is not a single modern xmpp client for windows.
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Ge0rG
and is there?
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vanitasvitae
I ended up recommending conversejs to him and he seems quite pleased with it.
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oli
how is conversejs a windows client? ;)
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Zash
Stick it in an Electron wrapper
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Ge0rG
the e-word! 🙈
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oli
don't mention the el...
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Zash
That's how all True Modern clients work, isn't it?
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vanitasvitae
He was amazed that he doesnt even have to install anything :D
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oli
I think Telegram is QT and C++
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oli
But most true modern clients are Electron apps, like Whatsapp (130 MB for compressed installer).
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oli
https://electronjs.org/apps?category=social-networking
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Ge0rG
converse.js is only 1.6MB compressed javascript
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vanitasvitae
He ended up setting converse up as a chrome app
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oli
how do I install it as a PWA?
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moparisthebest
vanitasvitae: what about gajim and dino?
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President
Gajim in Windows is good. Dino is only for Linux.
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moparisthebest
I don't think so...
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moparisthebest
I know people have ran Dino in windows
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President
Can you point me to Dino Windows download page?
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pep.
President, it's "just" that there is no official build for it :)
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moparisthebest
for example https://github.com/dino/dino/pull/304
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President
I am not able to find the Dino unofficial build .exe file for Windows 10 from the above website. website https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/306 says "There are no "clear instructions" on how to build Dino for Windows at this point, because Dino won't work sufficiently well under Windows right now." Maybe you can kindly build a .exe file Dino for Windows 10 for us to try?
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moparisthebest
I wouldn't advise anyone to use windows at all personally
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President
I have to agree with you Windows should not be used.
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Zash
Nor should iOS
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Zash
or Android
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Zash
In fact, don't use computers!
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João
:-D
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President
> Nor should iOS > or Android > In fact, don't use computers! Then, what should we use every day ?
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moparisthebest
linux, I recommend Arch :)
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Zash
Use? Dunno, a plow maybe, and plant some potatoes.
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President
Arch linux takes too much work to install and causes me headache when upgrade. Farmer's life of planting potatoes may be amazing and far healthier than staying in front of the computer every day.
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pep.
I was outside the whole afternoon visiting places/things, couldn't stop sneezing. I think nature is trying to send me a message, "don't stay outside too much" (or maybe I just have allergies).
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Seve
vanitasvitae, there's also https://www.miranda-ng.org/en/ only for Windows
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President
> I was outside the whole afternoon visiting places/things, couldn't stop sneezing. I think nature is trying to send me a message, "don't stay outside too much" (or maybe I just have allergies). Too bad. I hope nature will be more friendly to you next time.
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vanitasvitae
Seve: yeah miranda is used in our offices too.
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vanitasvitae
Still, not a "modern" UI either.
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moparisthebest
define "modern UI" ?
-
oli
modern UI: everything jammed in a hamburger menu
-
oli
user interface design guidelines are irrelevant
-
oli
everything has to be big
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Ge0rG
Like a touch screen app, but more dumbed down
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moparisthebest
I seriously want to know though
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Zash
Everything's an app these days
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moparisthebest
I like Conversations on my phone, but I certainly don't want the same UI on my desktop
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moparisthebest
I figured people who wanted a "modern UI" on the desktop had something in mind
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Zash
I'm sorta sad that the thing Empath and Gnome did with chat being something provided by the environment didn't take off
-
Zash
+y
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jonas’
that thing from where the "don’t do multiprotocol" rant comes from?
-
Zash
Correct
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Ge0rG
I'd kill for _native_ applications, even on windows. Microsoft got multiple decades of experience designing widgets and making them accessible and keyboard navigation enabled
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Ge0rG
All third party toolkits emulate that, badly
-
Ge0rG
And developers prefer to impress their users for five minutes with nicely colored image buttons instead of enabling them to use the application effectively for years.
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moparisthebest
I'm cautiously optimistic about webasm
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moparisthebest
rather than javascript being used all over the web and also to make 'native' apps which are just javascript websites in a native frame
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moparisthebest
you can write native apps that also happen to run in web browsers
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Zash
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript comes true after all?
-
Zash
moparisthebest: tho webasm doesn't do that and you'll never have true "write once, run everywhere" because platforms are different and you can't make a single gui work nicely everywhere
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moparisthebest
they can share *most* code though, and that code doesn't need to be javascript, that's the big win in my book
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Zash
Didn't emscripten do that alreday or are you only thinking of some sort of binary thing?
-
Zash
Seomething something Java applets
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moparisthebest
well emscripten compiled to javascript, but I'm looking forward to a world without javascript :P
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, it makes no functional difference though.
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Link Mauve
You could still write your code in any language which has a LLVM backend with Emscripten.
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Link Mauve
edhelas, you still haven’t fixed your CSN bug, fyi.
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moparisthebest
maybe, it just leaves me hopeful that maybe one day web browsers won't support javascript anymore, only webasm :)
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moparisthebest
a man can dream
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, so every website would ship a JavaScript interpreter compiled to wasm?
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Link Mauve
You’ve forgotten one of the main rules of the web: don’t break existing websites.
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Zash
or so everything would ship binaries and the original way a bunch of people got into programming would no longer exist?
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moparisthebest
no by then everyone's moved to Rust of course
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Link Mauve
moparisthebest, are you volunteering to rewrite every single existing website to Rust?
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Zash
altho learning html and js via "view source" hasn't worked for some time now
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moparisthebest
most of them rewrite themselves weekly anyway don't they?
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Link Mauve
Some haven’t been rewritten since the 90s.