Handling of unhandled stanzas to a local domain. 6120 says " either (a) handle the
stanza as appropriate for the stanza kind or (b) return an error
stanza to the sender.". 6121 helpfully says just to do what 6120 says. This is clearly vague, as returning an error for every stanza that isn't handled must be wrong (e.g. bouncing a bounce).
Kev
What do people generally do - drop everything except iq get/set, which error? Error everything that could be errorred (including headline etc.)?
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Guus
Kev Openfire delivers messages to the local domain JID to all configured admins.
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Guus
presence stanzas appear to be treated as if the 'to' attribute was empty.
Guus
(I'm looking at behavior, not code, so I might be missing things)
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Ge0rG
There is also this weird duality where on c2s connections a client is sending to the account by default, not to the server domain
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Kev
Guus: Ta.
Kev
Ge0rG: Weird duality?
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Guus
fwiw, the Openfire behavior likely predates 6120.
Ge0rG
Kev: well, technically your stream is to your account, so the default @to is your bare JID, it's just a bit weird for client devvs
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Kev
Fair enough - I never found that bit particularly odd, but I might be in the minority :)
Zash
I think that makes perfect sense. What's weird about it?
Zash
Other than the historical thing where tons of things are advertised on and hooked onto the server JID, while newer things often go on the account JID
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Ge0rG
Zash: maybe it's just because the perceived endpoint is the server, not my account
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Kev
My reading of this is that the minimally compliant thing to do is to error on iq get/set and swallow everything else, although I suspect errorring on a message (other than =error) might also be useful.
MattJ
I generally follow a policy of error for any unhandled/undelivered stanza
MattJ
Silent stanza loss is bad
Zash
And Prosody doesn't silently discard CSNs, they get saved to offline storage 🙂
Kev
I considered bouncing everything, but bouncing presence seemed more likely to be unhelpful than helpful. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
Kev
The really vital thing to bounce seems to be get/set.
Kev
Is there an argument for bouncing presence too?
MattJ
Yes: silent stanza loss is generally bad
MattJ
Trying to subscribe to a server's JID should return an error (if the server doesn't support that)
MattJ
For an example
Kev
That's probably fair.
Kev
Thanks all.
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MattJ
o/
Sevesays hi!
MattJ
Hi Seve!
MattJ
ralphm, Guus?
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Guus
as announced two weeks ago, I'm unavailable today.
ralphm
Sorry, got distracted
ralphmbangs gavel
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
ralphm
Nyco and Guus sent regrets
ralphm
Are we good with the agenda?
Ge0rG
I'd like to provide a very brief update on the German gov't contact
MattJ
Sounds good, and I'm good with the agenda
ralphm
Great, that's already on it
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Seve
Good
ralphm
1. Discuss server setup
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ralphm
MattJ tried to follow up and then I failed to. We'll try again.
ralphm
2. Messenger Regulation in Germany / EU
ralphm
Ge0rG: the floor is yours
Ge0rG
I've talked to the person behind freie-messenger.de (another open protocols initiative), and obtained the contact of the respective person in the German ministry.
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Ge0rG
The contact person is Dr. Schäfer, whom I've contacted and provided a brief info of what the XSF is and who I am. He's currently obtaining an overview of relevant companies and projects/initiatives, and we will schedule a phone call after my holiday, in ~3 weeks
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Ge0rG
that's it
ralphm
Cool. Thanks for doing this!
Seve
Thank you very much Ge0rG, very appreciated, glad that you will be able to speak with him
ralphm
I'll put the item on the backburner, pending that call, and am confident you'll come back when you have talked to Dr. Schäfer.
Ge0rG
I'm going to schedule 15-30mins to introduce ourselves and to see where we might provide help
Ge0rG
regardless of that, we should develop an idea of what we actually do want.
Ge0rG
make XMPP the default baseline interop protocol?
Ge0rG
make XMPP the #1 suggestion communicated to companies?
Ge0rG
require all companies to use _the same_ interop protocol?
Ge0rG
require all companies to use the same _officially standardized_ interop protocol?
Ge0rG
I'm pretty sure we won't be able to put XMPP into actual law. And I'm pretty sure that won't be useful anyway.
ralphm
This is a good question indeed.
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Ge0rG
because who knows what the state-of-art will be in a decade or two
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ralphm
I agree that they won't mandate XMPP, but a well-known standard protocol suite would be good. Particularly if it isn't something like RCS.
Ge0rG
ralphm: I'm eager to hear your rationale against RCS after the meeting
ralphm
Sure. For clarity, that's my personal view.
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Ge0rG
Maybe Board should ponder a bit about the anticipated goals for the phone call
ralphm
I'm also interested in what the community thinks about this. Anyone lurking here, or reading this after the fact, with an opinion, please let us know.
ralphm
Yes
winfried
for the record: I making a (probably unsuccessful) push right now to make XMPP the mandatory standard for message exchange in Dutch healthcare right now
Ge0rG
winfried: I'd love to hear your lessons-learned from that, on-list, via personal mail or otherwise, until June 22nd
ralphm
winfried: good to know. Would be interesting if you could share which arguments you use to make that case.
Ge0rG
...and which aruments weren't good in the first place
Ge0rG
ralphm: it would be great to escalate that to The Community. Feel free to re-use parts of my initial Board mail.
mtavares
winfried, that would be great
ralphm
We also have other people in our community that have dealt with governmental and/or military requirements, so that could help as well.
winfried
Right now I am in a conference... I will post an e-mail on it to the memberlist
ralphm
winfried: thanks!
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ralphm
3. Fabian Sauter on SCAM
ralphm
Seve added this one
Seve
Yes, he asked about joining in this very room
ralphm
He's doing the Berlin Sprints?
Seve
Although nothing else was mentioned, if there was a purpose behind, or if we need help, etc
Seve
ralphm, I met him at the Sprint there in Berlin, but I think he may be related to another one in another german city, not sure
ralphm
Oh
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Seve
I expected him to be here today so we could talk about it, but he is not, unfortunately
ralphm
Seve can you ask him to expand on what he wants to do on SCAM?
Seve
Yes, I will try to reach to him
ralphm
I have no objections at this point, but a bit more than this would be good.
Seve
Indeed
ralphm
4. Tigase use of the XMPP logo
ralphm
I believe I asked Peter this a while back, looking up what he said
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ralphm
“stpeter: Hey, sorry, I was offline yesterday. I would think the logo is under the IPR policy, if it's licensed under anything.”
ralphm
nyco added this card, I don't know how that request came to us.
ralphm
Added info to the card
ralphm
5. Roadmap page
ralphm
Seve
Seve
Yes
Seve
It is basically this: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/564
ralphm
Well, first of all, I believe that page is out of date.
MattJ
I think the page needs removal or an update
ralphm
Right
Seve
We may want to discuss if we have a roadmap or not, before thinking on even linking it from the sidebar
ralphm
I'm curious if Council has an opinion on having a Roadmap like that.
MattJ
We've consistently failed at Board determining a roadmap the past few years, but if Council wanted to put some content there it would be good
ralphm
I wouldn't want to update it with without their involvement.
ralphm
Right.
ralphm
I need to think about this some more. dwd: could you (and Council) think about this, too?
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ralphm
6. AOB
ralphm
I forgot this at the beginning: can one of you make minutes?
ralphm
Also, anything else?
Seve
Not from me
MattJ
Who is collecting the use-case reports?
MattJ
There was one I saw shared somewhere about Nintendo using XMPP for notifications
Ge0rG
regarding SCAM applicants: wouldn't it be great to have them write a short application page on the wiki?
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Ge0rG
doesn't need to be voted on by all members, just Board as-is
ralphm
MattJ: I saw a tweet thread on that. Would be very interested to get a case study from them.
Seve
It may be a good idea to start with a wiki page with the use-case reports, with some links and such, so we all can contribute
ralphm
The talk itself was not allowed to be recorded :-(
Here it is
https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/796/1796780/
ralphm
Do we have a way to contact the speaker?
Ge0rG
we could contact jj1bdx and ask for speaker info
Seve
Looks like he is an ejabberd contributor
https://twitter.com/mickael/status/1134762932708028416
so maybe someone from our community can reach for contact details
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ralphm
I'll try to reach out.
ralphm
7. Date of Next
ralphm
+1W
ralphm
8. Close
Seve
+1
MattJ
wfm
ralphm
KTXBYE
ralphmbangs gavel
MattJ
Thanks!
Ge0rG
Holger is the most friendly ejabberd developer I know. Maybe he could reach out?
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ralphm
I've had contact with jj1bdx, and he's forwarding my request
ralphm
Seve: those slides are from a 2018 presentation, it seems
ralphm
related, but probably different from what jj1bdx tweeted