XSF Discussion - 2019-06-06

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  192. Kev Handling of unhandled stanzas to a local domain. 6120 says " either (a) handle the stanza as appropriate for the stanza kind or (b) return an error stanza to the sender.". 6121 helpfully says just to do what 6120 says. This is clearly vague, as returning an error for every stanza that isn't handled must be wrong (e.g. bouncing a bounce).
  193. Kev What do people generally do - drop everything except iq get/set, which error? Error everything that could be errorred (including headline etc.)?
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  198. Guus Kev Openfire delivers messages to the local domain JID to all configured admins.
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  201. Guus presence stanzas appear to be treated as if the 'to' attribute was empty.
  202. Guus (I'm looking at behavior, not code, so I might be missing things)
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  204. Ge0rG There is also this weird duality where on c2s connections a client is sending to the account by default, not to the server domain
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  206. Kev Guus: Ta.
  207. Kev Ge0rG: Weird duality?
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  209. Guus fwiw, the Openfire behavior likely predates 6120.
  210. Ge0rG Kev: well, technically your stream is to your account, so the default @to is your bare JID, it's just a bit weird for client devvs
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  237. Kev Fair enough - I never found that bit particularly odd, but I might be in the minority :)
  238. Zash I think that makes perfect sense. What's weird about it?
  239. Zash Other than the historical thing where tons of things are advertised on and hooked onto the server JID, while newer things often go on the account JID
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  254. Ge0rG Zash: maybe it's just because the perceived endpoint is the server, not my account
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  260. Kev My reading of this is that the minimally compliant thing to do is to error on iq get/set and swallow everything else, although I suspect errorring on a message (other than =error) might also be useful.
  261. MattJ I generally follow a policy of error for any unhandled/undelivered stanza
  262. MattJ Silent stanza loss is bad
  263. Zash And Prosody doesn't silently discard CSNs, they get saved to offline storage 🙂
  264. Kev I considered bouncing everything, but bouncing presence seemed more likely to be unhelpful than helpful. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
  265. Kev The really vital thing to bounce seems to be get/set.
  266. Kev Is there an argument for bouncing presence too?
  267. MattJ Yes: silent stanza loss is generally bad
  268. MattJ Trying to subscribe to a server's JID should return an error (if the server doesn't support that)
  269. MattJ For an example
  270. Kev That's probably fair.
  271. Kev Thanks all.
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  284. MattJ o/
  285. Seve says hi!
  286. MattJ Hi Seve!
  287. MattJ ralphm, Guus?
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  289. Guus as announced two weeks ago, I'm unavailable today.
  290. ralphm Sorry, got distracted
  291. ralphm bangs gavel
  292. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
  293. ralphm Nyco and Guus sent regrets
  294. ralphm Are we good with the agenda?
  295. Ge0rG I'd like to provide a very brief update on the German gov't contact
  296. MattJ Sounds good, and I'm good with the agenda
  297. ralphm Great, that's already on it
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  299. Seve Good
  300. ralphm 1. Discuss server setup
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  303. ralphm MattJ tried to follow up and then I failed to. We'll try again.
  304. ralphm 2. Messenger Regulation in Germany / EU
  305. ralphm Ge0rG: the floor is yours
  306. Ge0rG I've talked to the person behind freie-messenger.de (another open protocols initiative), and obtained the contact of the respective person in the German ministry.
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  308. Ge0rG The contact person is Dr. Schäfer, whom I've contacted and provided a brief info of what the XSF is and who I am. He's currently obtaining an overview of relevant companies and projects/initiatives, and we will schedule a phone call after my holiday, in ~3 weeks
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  310. Ge0rG that's it
  311. ralphm Cool. Thanks for doing this!
  312. Seve Thank you very much Ge0rG, very appreciated, glad that you will be able to speak with him
  313. ralphm I'll put the item on the backburner, pending that call, and am confident you'll come back when you have talked to Dr. Schäfer.
  314. Ge0rG I'm going to schedule 15-30mins to introduce ourselves and to see where we might provide help
  315. Ge0rG regardless of that, we should develop an idea of what we actually do want.
  316. Ge0rG make XMPP the default baseline interop protocol?
  317. Ge0rG make XMPP the #1 suggestion communicated to companies?
  318. Ge0rG require all companies to use _the same_ interop protocol?
  319. Ge0rG require all companies to use the same _officially standardized_ interop protocol?
  320. Ge0rG I'm pretty sure we won't be able to put XMPP into actual law. And I'm pretty sure that won't be useful anyway.
  321. ralphm This is a good question indeed.
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  323. Ge0rG because who knows what the state-of-art will be in a decade or two
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  325. ralphm I agree that they won't mandate XMPP, but a well-known standard protocol suite would be good. Particularly if it isn't something like RCS.
  326. Ge0rG ralphm: I'm eager to hear your rationale against RCS after the meeting
  327. ralphm Sure. For clarity, that's my personal view.
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  329. Ge0rG Maybe Board should ponder a bit about the anticipated goals for the phone call
  330. ralphm I'm also interested in what the community thinks about this. Anyone lurking here, or reading this after the fact, with an opinion, please let us know.
  331. ralphm Yes
  332. winfried for the record: I making a (probably unsuccessful) push right now to make XMPP the mandatory standard for message exchange in Dutch healthcare right now
  333. Ge0rG winfried: I'd love to hear your lessons-learned from that, on-list, via personal mail or otherwise, until June 22nd
  334. ralphm winfried: good to know. Would be interesting if you could share which arguments you use to make that case.
  335. Ge0rG ...and which aruments weren't good in the first place
  336. Ge0rG ralphm: it would be great to escalate that to The Community. Feel free to re-use parts of my initial Board mail.
  337. mtavares winfried, that would be great
  338. ralphm We also have other people in our community that have dealt with governmental and/or military requirements, so that could help as well.
  339. winfried Right now I am in a conference... I will post an e-mail on it to the memberlist
  340. ralphm winfried: thanks!
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  343. ralphm 3. Fabian Sauter on SCAM
  344. ralphm Seve added this one
  345. Seve Yes, he asked about joining in this very room
  346. ralphm He's doing the Berlin Sprints?
  347. Seve Although nothing else was mentioned, if there was a purpose behind, or if we need help, etc
  348. Seve ralphm, I met him at the Sprint there in Berlin, but I think he may be related to another one in another german city, not sure
  349. ralphm Oh
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  351. Seve I expected him to be here today so we could talk about it, but he is not, unfortunately
  352. ralphm Seve can you ask him to expand on what he wants to do on SCAM?
  353. Seve Yes, I will try to reach to him
  354. ralphm I have no objections at this point, but a bit more than this would be good.
  355. Seve Indeed
  356. ralphm 4. Tigase use of the XMPP logo
  357. ralphm I believe I asked Peter this a while back, looking up what he said
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  360. ralphm “stpeter‎: Hey, sorry, I was offline yesterday. I would think the logo is under the IPR policy, if it's licensed under anything.”
  361. ralphm nyco added this card, I don't know how that request came to us.
  362. ralphm Added info to the card
  363. ralphm 5. Roadmap page
  364. ralphm Seve
  365. Seve Yes
  366. Seve It is basically this: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/564
  367. ralphm Well, first of all, I believe that page is out of date.
  368. MattJ I think the page needs removal or an update
  369. ralphm Right
  370. Seve We may want to discuss if we have a roadmap or not, before thinking on even linking it from the sidebar
  371. ralphm I'm curious if Council has an opinion on having a Roadmap like that.
  372. MattJ We've consistently failed at Board determining a roadmap the past few years, but if Council wanted to put some content there it would be good
  373. ralphm I wouldn't want to update it with without their involvement.
  374. ralphm Right.
  375. ralphm I need to think about this some more. dwd: could you (and Council) think about this, too?
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  377. ralphm 6. AOB
  378. ralphm I forgot this at the beginning: can one of you make minutes?
  379. ralphm Also, anything else?
  380. Seve Not from me
  381. MattJ Who is collecting the use-case reports?
  382. MattJ There was one I saw shared somewhere about Nintendo using XMPP for notifications
  383. Ge0rG regarding SCAM applicants: wouldn't it be great to have them write a short application page on the wiki?
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  386. Ge0rG doesn't need to be voted on by all members, just Board as-is
  387. ralphm MattJ: I saw a tweet thread on that. Would be very interested to get a case study from them.
  388. Seve It may be a good idea to start with a wiki page with the use-case reports, with some links and such, so we all can contribute
  389. ralphm The talk itself was not allowed to be recorded :-(
  390. ralphm Ge0rG: good idea. ← Seve
  391. ralphm Seve: agreed
  392. Ge0rG MattJ: https://twitter.com/jj1bdx/status/1134749626546843649
  393. Ge0rG there was also a japanese blog with photos
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  395. Seve Vaulor, do you have it?
  396. Seve Here it is https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/796/1796780/
  397. ralphm Do we have a way to contact the speaker?
  398. Ge0rG we could contact jj1bdx and ask for speaker info
  399. Seve Looks like he is an ejabberd contributor https://twitter.com/mickael/status/1134762932708028416 so maybe someone from our community can reach for contact details
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  401. ralphm I'll try to reach out.
  402. ralphm 7. Date of Next
  403. ralphm +1W
  404. ralphm 8. Close
  405. Seve +1
  406. MattJ wfm
  407. ralphm KTXBYE
  408. ralphm bangs gavel
  409. MattJ Thanks!
  410. Ge0rG Holger is the most friendly ejabberd developer I know. Maybe he could reach out?
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  416. ralphm I've had contact with jj1bdx, and he's forwarding my request
  417. ralphm Seve: those slides are from a 2018 presentation, it seems
  418. ralphm related, but probably different from what jj1bdx tweeted
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  422. Ge0rG fun fact: jj1bdx is a user of my other app
  423. Ge0rG https://aprs.fi/info/a/JJ1BDX-5
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