XSF Discussion - 2019-06-12

  1. peter has left
  2. Jean has left
  3. Jean has joined
  4. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  5. pdurbin has joined
  6. pdurbin has left
  7. valo has left
  8. pdurbin has joined
  9. dwd has joined
  10. pdurbin has left
  11. UsL has left
  12. pdurbin has joined
  13. pdurbin has left
  14. peter has joined
  15. frainz has left
  16. frainz has joined
  17. pdurbin has joined
  18. neshtaxmpp has left
  19. neshtaxmpp has joined
  20. valo has joined
  21. Douglas Terabyte has left
  22. remko has joined
  23. pdurbin has left
  24. Jean has left
  25. Jean has joined
  26. larma has left
  27. larma has joined
  28. Jean has left
  29. Jean has joined
  30. peter has left
  31. pdurbin has joined
  32. Jean has left
  33. Jean has joined
  34. remko has left
  35. Wojtek has joined
  36. pdurbin has left
  37. Jean has left
  38. Jean has joined
  39. Wojtek has left
  40. Jean has left
  41. Jean has joined
  42. Jean has left
  43. Jean has joined
  44. pdurbin has joined
  45. lskdjf has left
  46. Jean has left
  47. dwd has left
  48. dwd has joined
  49. pdurbin has left
  50. dwd has left
  51. mr.fister has left
  52. mr.fister has joined
  53. pdurbin has joined
  54. pdurbin has left
  55. DebXWoody has joined
  56. pdurbin has joined
  57. remko has joined
  58. COM8 has joined
  59. COM8 has left
  60. lnj has joined
  61. Yagiza has joined
  62. wurstsalat has joined
  63. DebXWoody has left
  64. remko has left
  65. pdurbin has left
  66. Jean has joined
  67. Jean has left
  68. Jean has joined
  69. DebXWoody has joined
  70. david has joined
  71. dwd has joined
  72. Jean has left
  73. Jean has joined
  74. goffi has joined
  75. goffi has left
  76. goffi has joined
  77. andy has left
  78. DebXWoody has left
  79. UsL has joined
  80. DebXWoody has joined
  81. andy has joined
  82. andy has left
  83. andy has joined
  84. andy has left
  85. andy has joined
  86. mimi89999 has left
  87. andy has left
  88. andy has joined
  89. andy has left
  90. mimi89999 has joined
  91. andy has joined
  92. lumi has joined
  93. DebXWoody has left
  94. jonas’ lovetox, I cannot join jdev@ because jabber.org has DH keys which are too small to be accepted by my server
  95. jonas’ white is 255,255,255, so inverting gives 0
  96. vanitasvitae has left
  97. vanitasvitae has joined
  98. frainz has left
  99. frainz has joined
  100. Syndace has left
  101. j.r has left
  102. rtq3 has joined
  103. j.r has joined
  104. lumi has left
  105. lumi has joined
  106. lumi has left
  107. sezuan has joined
  108. Dele Olajide has joined
  109. Dele Olajide has left
  110. Dele Olajide has joined
  111. frainz has left
  112. frainz has joined
  113. pdurbin has joined
  114. frainz has left
  115. frainz has joined
  116. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  117. karoshi has joined
  118. remko has joined
  119. j.r has left
  120. Douglas Terabyte has left
  121. Steve Kille has left
  122. dwd has left
  123. dwd has joined
  124. pdurbin has left
  125. rtq3 has left
  126. j.r has joined
  127. dwd has left
  128. dwd has joined
  129. Alex has left
  130. Alex has joined
  131. mr.fister has left
  132. pep. Dumb question about the whitespace thread on standard@, I've read this: "it's more efficient for battery usage to use push notifications", bit Google also has to maintain a TCP connection to push these notifications right? So they are eventually running into the same issues as us? How is that more efficient
  133. pep. Dumb question about the whitespace thread on standard@, I've read this: "it's more efficient for battery usage to use push notifications", but Google also has to maintain a TCP connection to push these notifications right? So they are eventually running into the same issues as us? How is that more efficient
  134. lumi has joined
  135. Syndace has joined
  136. Holger pep.: I think this story of push notifications saving traffic originated from them being used as an alternative to crappy (HTTP) polling. The remaining point I see is that with push notifications, the OS can freely kill the app on resource shortage.
  137. Holger Plus maybe a little traffic optimization after all, if you take into account that TCP keepalives or thelike (I think theirs weird stuff done on mobile) are per connection.
  138. Holger But in general you're right, I think.
  139. DebXWoody has joined
  140. Alex has left
  141. Nekit has joined
  142. dwd has left
  143. dwd has joined
  144. pdurbin has joined
  145. Kev I would /assume/ (very possibly wrongly) that they're smart enough to not go spinning the radio all the way up for push notifs.
  146. karoshi has left
  147. karoshi has joined
  148. COM8 has joined
  149. dwd has left
  150. COM8 has left
  151. Kev has left
  152. COM8 has joined
  153. COM8 has left
  154. dwd has joined
  155. pdurbin has left
  156. Ge0rG Kev: I'm not sure this is how baseband modules work.
  157. Ge0rG So yes, it's a matter of keeping a single TCP connection vs one per app or even long polling / periodic polling by each app
  158. Ge0rG Also google has done significant work on making that connection stable, even under adverse conditions like very short NAT timeouts
  159. karoshi has left
  160. karoshi has joined
  161. Kev has joined
  162. Ge0rG (they are measuring them and maintaining per network keep alive intervals)
  163. Steve Kille has joined
  164. Kev Ge0rG: Well, whether you can control the baseband or not (Apple presumably can, at least), you can make your push notifs small enough to avoid significant wakeups, no?
  165. Kev But I'm working entirely on intuition here, no clue what I'm talking about.
  166. Ge0rG Kev: well, yes
  167. dwd has left
  168. dwd has joined
  169. andy has left
  170. DebXWoody has left
  171. andy has joined
  172. pdurbin has joined
  173. dwd has left
  174. Zash Being smart about scheduling could help, in theory
  175. dwd has joined
  176. Steve Kille has left
  177. Ge0rG I don't think there are significant delays in delivering push to Android. Except for the trash calendar app on my Samsung phone, where all notifications come a day late
  178. Steve Kille has joined
  179. Kacper has joined
  180. DebXWoody has joined
  181. debacle has joined
  182. dwd has left
  183. dwd has joined
  184. rtq3 has joined
  185. dwd has left
  186. Kacper has left
  187. Alex has joined
  188. Steve Kille has left
  189. j.r has left
  190. j.r has joined
  191. wurstsalat has left
  192. wurstsalat has joined
  193. frainz has left
  194. frainz has joined
  195. pdurbin has left
  196. dwd has joined
  197. j.r has left
  198. debacle has left
  199. MattJ iirc Samsung have their own push thing, or used to
  200. frainz has left
  201. pep. So you have to go through Google and then Google goes through Samsung? :p
  202. pep. Or you skip Google and have to support two APIs ?
  203. Zash Haha
  204. Ge0rG I have no idea why it doesn't work properly. It was perfectly on time on LineageOS on my previous phone
  205. COM8 has joined
  206. dwd has left
  207. dwd has joined
  208. COM8 has left
  209. lskdjf has joined
  210. frainz has joined
  211. lskdjf has left
  212. frainz has left
  213. frainz has joined
  214. debacle has joined
  215. dwd has left
  216. Steve Kille has joined
  217. lskdjf has joined
  218. dwd has joined
  219. dwd has left
  220. dwd has joined
  221. dwd has left
  222. dwd has joined
  223. rtq3 has left
  224. rtq3 has joined
  225. j.r has joined
  226. karoshi has left
  227. karoshi has joined
  228. rtq3 has left
  229. rtq3 has joined
  230. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  231. flow pep., batching the push notifications and takign the devices sleep cycle into account is the only minor argument I am able to come up with, but besides that, an XMPP connection could be as efficient as an google push connection
  232. dwd has left
  233. dwd has joined
  234. flow but google does obviously neither for high priority FCM pushes, only probably for normal priority messages
  235. rtq3 has left
  236. pdurbin has joined
  237. rtq3 has joined
  238. rtq3 has left
  239. dwd has left
  240. pdurbin has left
  241. DebXWoody has left
  242. dwd has joined
  243. rtq3 has joined
  244. DebXWoody has joined
  245. rtq3 has left
  246. dwd has left
  247. dwd has joined
  248. Steve Kille has left
  249. dwd has left
  250. rtq3 has joined
  251. dwd has joined
  252. dwd has left
  253. dwd has joined
  254. dwd has left
  255. rion why jingle has only global tie-break error but not per content? What if we have multiple <content> elements in a request and only one of them is <tie-break>. Basically the same for <reason> which may be different
  256. neshtaxmpp has left
  257. DebXWoody has left
  258. Steve Kille has joined
  259. flow rion, potentially no particular reason and just something the authors did not consider. From how I understand jingle, having per content tie-breaks sounds sensible
  260. neshtaxmpp has joined
  261. COM8 has joined
  262. COM8 has left
  263. rion I'm implementing transport-replace in Psi right now. It's mostly finished. But these problems with tie-break and necessity to send transport offer twice make me frustrated.
  264. Kacper has joined
  265. dwd has joined
  266. j.r has left
  267. j.r has joined
  268. pdurbin has joined
  269. dwd has left
  270. dwd has joined
  271. peter has joined
  272. dwd has left
  273. rtq3 has left
  274. rtq3 has joined
  275. wurstsalat has left
  276. wurstsalat has joined
  277. pdurbin has left
  278. frainz has left
  279. frainz has joined
  280. frainz has left
  281. frainz has joined
  282. pep. Can there be fulljids in the roster? (that is, a fulljid I'd be subscribed to)
  283. XSF has left
  284. madhur.garg has left
  285. j.r has left
  286. rtq3 has left
  287. madhur.garg has joined
  288. j.r has joined
  289. rtq3 has joined
  290. madhur.garg has left
  291. madhur.garg has joined
  292. madhur.garg has left
  293. XSF has joined
  294. j.r has left
  295. j.r has joined
  296. dwd has joined
  297. edhelas has left
  298. madhur.garg has joined
  299. edhelas has joined
  300. MattJ pep., iirc yes, you can (in 6121, possibly not 3921), but don't expect it to work how you want, you can't subscribe to a full JID
  301. frainz has left
  302. frainz has joined
  303. rtq3 has left
  304. Zash Are you sure? I thought it was bare JIDs only
  305. rtq3 has joined
  306. MattJ Zash, I can find no such restriction
  307. DebXWoody has joined
  308. frainz has left
  309. frainz has joined
  310. Link Mauve I also remember a discussion on that topic, but none of the conclusions.
  311. peter has left
  312. rtq3 has left
  313. rtq3 has joined
  314. dwd To go back to this morning, the argument for push notifications over a TCP session comes down to that if all the pushes go through the same channel, this can be optimized in terms of combining radio activity. But I think it's a sketchy argument, given you'd have to introduce latency and things in order to combine them anyway.
  315. rion guys, what do you use to edit XEPs? To preview them quickly
  316. j.r has left
  317. wurstsalat has left
  318. wurstsalat has joined
  319. flow rion: sam build a inotify based make target that would build the html every time the xml changed
  320. flow I use something similar like that
  321. jonas’ rion, I use a texteditor and my typical arrow-up-enter workflow
  322. jonas’ with `make build/xep-1234.html`
  323. Zash `:make`
  324. pdurbin has joined
  325. rion ok. got it. thanks.
  326. david has left
  327. rtq3 has left
  328. rtq3 has joined
  329. DebXWoody has left
  330. kokonoe has left
  331. pdurbin has left
  332. wurstsalat has left
  333. wurstsalat has joined
  334. sezuan has left
  335. kokonoe has joined
  336. rtq3 has left
  337. lovetox has joined
  338. Yagiza has left
  339. Nekit has left
  340. j.r has joined
  341. DebXWoody has joined
  342. Steve Kille has left
  343. frainz has left
  344. frainz has joined
  345. frainz has left
  346. frainz has joined
  347. debacle has left
  348. COM8 has joined
  349. COM8 has left
  350. Steve Kille has joined
  351. Kacper has left
  352. wurstsalat has left
  353. wurstsalat has joined
  354. frainz has left
  355. frainz has joined
  356. Kacper has joined
  357. Yagiza has joined
  358. DebXWoody has left
  359. wurstsalat has left
  360. wurstsalat has joined
  361. lnj has left
  362. DebXWoody has joined
  363. lnj has joined
  364. DebXWoody has left
  365. DebXWoody has joined
  366. Dele Olajide has left
  367. frainz has left
  368. frainz has joined
  369. frainz has left
  370. COM8 has joined
  371. frainz has joined
  372. COM8 has left
  373. frainz has left
  374. frainz has joined
  375. frainz has left
  376. frainz has joined
  377. Kacper has left
  378. pdurbin has joined
  379. lovetox_ has joined
  380. lovetox_ has left
  381. pdurbin has left
  382. lovetox lol jabber.ru sends russian text on the IBR form
  383. lovetox no idea what they want me to put into the field
  384. jonas’ lovetox, I’m not in jdev@ because I can’t join due to Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: sslhandshake error: dh key too small
  385. jonas’ lovetox, I’m not in jdev@ because I can’t join due to Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: ssl handshake error: dh key too small
  386. lovetox yeah i read your message
  387. jonas’ ah ok
  388. jonas’ you’ll have to live with that until jabber.org is fixed
  389. rion lovetox: try to type some russian =)
  390. lovetox thanks for the hint with background, i though for some reason 0,0,0 is white :D
  391. jonas’ :)
  392. jonas’ yeah, the jclib implementation is historically grown and a bit of a mess
  393. lovetox works good now for me, gajim has now also default avatar generation
  394. jonas’ \o/
  395. jonas’ awesome
  396. rion Пользователь = username Электронная почта = email Телефон = phone
  397. jonas’ I need to get the text on semianon vs. nonanon in 392 and then it can be advanced IMO
  398. lovetox thanks rion i found my old account just now and rememberd the password
  399. jonas’ (specifically, in a semianon room, you SHOULD use the nickname, even if you have privileges and can see the real JID; in a nonanon room you SHOULD use the real JID)
  400. lovetox yeah although this is bothersome to implement
  401. rion lovetox: so russian FSB won't follow you since phone number wasn't required previously
  402. lovetox my contact object does not have the information about the room settings the contact is in
  403. lovetox :D
  404. lovetox rion, yeah because anyone puts in the real number there :D
  405. jonas’ lovetox, yeah, transferring that information will be a tad annoying
  406. jonas’ but it might be good to do that anyways, considering that you don’t want to accidentally leak a real JID you only know because you are a privileged member of a room
  407. jonas’ so carrying that information around might be good to present that bit ("you only see this because you are a moderator, tread carefully") in the UI
  408. Ge0rG lovetox: speaking of old accounts. There was a bunch of spam bots on Gajim.org recently. Do you have IBR enabled? Is it even meant to be a public server?
  409. rion > Accounts not used for more than 1 month are destroyed. > To register an account, go to this URL : <a href="https://gajim.org:5281/register_web" style="color:#000080">https://gajim.org:5281/register_web</a>
  410. lovetox please just send them to me, i will forward it to asterix to delete them
  411. kokonoe has left
  412. rion mm now I have an account on gajim.org
  413. lovetox and yeah register on gajim.org is enabled, but i will question if this is necessary
  414. lovetox as the server is not maintained for users really
  415. kokonoe has joined
  416. Ge0rG So maybe somebody broke the captcha? But it was only two bots, that's not the typical pattern. They come in hundreds normally
  417. lovetox there is no captcha, just a "what is 7 + 9"
  418. lovetox probably very hard for bots
  419. Ge0rG I don't have the JIDs here right now, you just weren't online for a long time
  420. lovetox yeah i dared to go on holiday 2 weeks
  421. Ge0rG lovetox: you need a mobile xmpp client! 😜
  422. lovetox hm im still evaluating what the real price of having a smartphone is, could take a while
  423. jonas’ I’m interested in your calculations
  424. rion $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 7 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 5 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 3 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 3 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 7 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 15
  425. rion but I love this captcha anyway :)
  426. Ge0rG lovetox: twypnt8xlmk5ok7r@gajim.org u0a6v@gajim.org
  427. lovetox thanks, forwarded
  428. Ge0rG https://pastebin.com/Ejqsc54U
  429. alacer has left
  430. larma has left
  431. debacle has joined
  432. larma has joined
  433. lovetox Gajim makes XMPP great again
  434. lovetox user registrations just in May
  435. lovetox https://lagaule.org/munin/static/dynazoom.html?cgiurl_graph=/munin-cgi/munin-cgi-graph&plugin_name=localdomain/localhost.localdomain/prosody_users&size_x=800&size_y=400&start_epoch=1525803610&stop_epoch=1560363610
  436. Douglas Terabyte has left
  437. rion =)
  438. Nekit has joined
  439. DebXWoody has left
  440. Zash Why have open registration?
  441. peter has joined
  442. Alex I use the simple match question plugin in Psi for a while for subscriptions. Bots are smart enough to answer the match question for a while now
  443. debacle has left
  444. lovetox does jabber.ru have some fork of ejabberd
  445. UsL has left
  446. UsL has joined
  447. lovetox they report version 3.2.x
  448. lovetox or is it that old
  449. lovetox they suffer from an older bug i reported to ejabberd
  450. lovetox not respecting the stream xml:lang
  451. Kacper has joined
  452. lorddavidiii has joined
  453. lorddavidiii has left
  454. pdurbin has joined
  455. lorddavidiii has joined
  456. larma has left
  457. larma has joined
  458. pdurbin has left
  459. rtq3 has joined
  460. rtq3 has left
  461. rtq3 has joined
  462. lorddavidiii has left
  463. frainz has left
  464. frainz has joined
  465. rtq3 has left
  466. peter has left
  467. rtq3 has joined
  468. neshtaxmpp has left
  469. kokonoe has left
  470. kokonoe has joined
  471. Holger That's an old version of the Business Edition.
  472. Holger Which is based on even older code of the Community Edition.
  473. igoose has left
  474. igoose has joined
  475. matlag has left
  476. neshtaxmpp has joined
  477. david has joined
  478. Yagiza has left
  479. COM8 has joined
  480. COM8 has left
  481. COM8 has joined
  482. COM8 has left
  483. goffi has left
  484. peter has joined
  485. remko has left
  486. Nekit has left
  487. neshtaxmpp has left
  488. neshtaxmpp has joined
  489. mimi89999 has left
  490. mimi89999 has joined
  491. pdurbin has joined
  492. debacle has joined
  493. david has left
  494. j.r has left
  495. j.r has joined
  496. pdurbin has left
  497. frainz has left
  498. frainz has joined
  499. wurstsalat has left
  500. lovetox has left
  501. Kacper has left
  502. pdurbin has joined
  503. pdurbin has left
  504. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  505. lnj has left
  506. Douglas Terabyte has left
  507. pdurbin has joined
  508. pdurbin has left
  509. UsL has left
  510. UsL has joined
  511. debacle has left
  512. pdurbin has joined
  513. peter has left
  514. pdurbin has left