XSF Discussion - 2019-06-12

  1. peter has left

  2. Jean has left

  3. Jean has joined

  4. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  5. pdurbin has joined

  6. pdurbin has left

  7. valo has left

  8. pdurbin has joined

  9. dwd has joined

  10. pdurbin has left

  11. UsL has left

  12. pdurbin has joined

  13. pdurbin has left

  14. peter has joined

  15. frainz has left

  16. frainz has joined

  17. pdurbin has joined

  18. neshtaxmpp has left

  19. neshtaxmpp has joined

  20. valo has joined

  21. Douglas Terabyte has left

  22. remko has joined

  23. pdurbin has left

  24. Jean has left

  25. Jean has joined

  26. larma has left

  27. larma has joined

  28. Jean has left

  29. Jean has joined

  30. peter has left

  31. pdurbin has joined

  32. Jean has left

  33. Jean has joined

  34. remko has left

  35. Wojtek has joined

  36. pdurbin has left

  37. Jean has left

  38. Jean has joined

  39. Wojtek has left

  40. Jean has left

  41. Jean has joined

  42. Jean has left

  43. Jean has joined

  44. pdurbin has joined

  45. lskdjf has left

  46. Jean has left

  47. dwd has left

  48. dwd has joined

  49. pdurbin has left

  50. dwd has left

  51. mr.fister has left

  52. mr.fister has joined

  53. pdurbin has joined

  54. pdurbin has left

  55. DebXWoody has joined

  56. pdurbin has joined

  57. remko has joined

  58. COM8 has joined

  59. COM8 has left

  60. lnj has joined

  61. Yagiza has joined

  62. wurstsalat has joined

  63. DebXWoody has left

  64. remko has left

  65. pdurbin has left

  66. Jean has joined

  67. Jean has left

  68. Jean has joined

  69. DebXWoody has joined

  70. david has joined

  71. dwd has joined

  72. Jean has left

  73. Jean has joined

  74. goffi has joined

  75. goffi has left

  76. goffi has joined

  77. andy has left

  78. DebXWoody has left

  79. UsL has joined

  80. DebXWoody has joined

  81. andy has joined

  82. andy has left

  83. andy has joined

  84. andy has left

  85. andy has joined

  86. mimi89999 has left

  87. andy has left

  88. andy has joined

  89. andy has left

  90. mimi89999 has joined

  91. andy has joined

  92. lumi has joined

  93. DebXWoody has left

  94. jonas’

    lovetox, I cannot join jdev@ because jabber.org has DH keys which are too small to be accepted by my server

  95. jonas’

    white is 255,255,255, so inverting gives 0

  96. vanitasvitae has left

  97. vanitasvitae has joined

  98. frainz has left

  99. frainz has joined

  100. Syndace has left

  101. j.r has left

  102. rtq3 has joined

  103. j.r has joined

  104. lumi has left

  105. lumi has joined

  106. lumi has left

  107. sezuan has joined

  108. Dele Olajide has joined

  109. Dele Olajide has left

  110. Dele Olajide has joined

  111. frainz has left

  112. frainz has joined

  113. pdurbin has joined

  114. frainz has left

  115. frainz has joined

  116. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  117. karoshi has joined

  118. remko has joined

  119. j.r has left

  120. Douglas Terabyte has left

  121. Steve Kille has left

  122. dwd has left

  123. dwd has joined

  124. pdurbin has left

  125. rtq3 has left

  126. j.r has joined

  127. dwd has left

  128. dwd has joined

  129. Alex has left

  130. Alex has joined

  131. mr.fister has left

  132. pep.

    Dumb question about the whitespace thread on standard@, I've read this: "it's more efficient for battery usage to use push notifications", bit Google also has to maintain a TCP connection to push these notifications right? So they are eventually running into the same issues as us? How is that more efficient

  133. pep.

    Dumb question about the whitespace thread on standard@, I've read this: "it's more efficient for battery usage to use push notifications", but Google also has to maintain a TCP connection to push these notifications right? So they are eventually running into the same issues as us? How is that more efficient

  134. lumi has joined

  135. Syndace has joined

  136. Holger

    pep.: I think this story of push notifications saving traffic originated from them being used as an alternative to crappy (HTTP) polling. The remaining point I see is that with push notifications, the OS can freely kill the app on resource shortage.

  137. Holger

    Plus maybe a little traffic optimization after all, if you take into account that TCP keepalives or thelike (I think theirs weird stuff done on mobile) are per connection.

  138. Holger

    But in general you're right, I think.

  139. DebXWoody has joined

  140. Alex has left

  141. Nekit has joined

  142. dwd has left

  143. dwd has joined

  144. pdurbin has joined

  145. Kev

    I would /assume/ (very possibly wrongly) that they're smart enough to not go spinning the radio all the way up for push notifs.

  146. karoshi has left

  147. karoshi has joined

  148. COM8 has joined

  149. dwd has left

  150. COM8 has left

  151. Kev has left

  152. COM8 has joined

  153. COM8 has left

  154. dwd has joined

  155. pdurbin has left

  156. Ge0rG

    Kev: I'm not sure this is how baseband modules work.

  157. Ge0rG

    So yes, it's a matter of keeping a single TCP connection vs one per app or even long polling / periodic polling by each app

  158. Ge0rG

    Also google has done significant work on making that connection stable, even under adverse conditions like very short NAT timeouts

  159. karoshi has left

  160. karoshi has joined

  161. Kev has joined

  162. Ge0rG

    (they are measuring them and maintaining per network keep alive intervals)

  163. Steve Kille has joined

  164. Kev

    Ge0rG: Well, whether you can control the baseband or not (Apple presumably can, at least), you can make your push notifs small enough to avoid significant wakeups, no?

  165. Kev

    But I'm working entirely on intuition here, no clue what I'm talking about.

  166. Ge0rG

    Kev: well, yes

  167. dwd has left

  168. dwd has joined

  169. andy has left

  170. DebXWoody has left

  171. andy has joined

  172. pdurbin has joined

  173. dwd has left

  174. Zash

    Being smart about scheduling could help, in theory

  175. dwd has joined

  176. Steve Kille has left

  177. Ge0rG

    I don't think there are significant delays in delivering push to Android. Except for the trash calendar app on my Samsung phone, where all notifications come a day late

  178. Steve Kille has joined

  179. Kacper has joined

  180. DebXWoody has joined

  181. debacle has joined

  182. dwd has left

  183. dwd has joined

  184. rtq3 has joined

  185. dwd has left

  186. Kacper has left

  187. Alex has joined

  188. Steve Kille has left

  189. j.r has left

  190. j.r has joined

  191. wurstsalat has left

  192. wurstsalat has joined

  193. frainz has left

  194. frainz has joined

  195. pdurbin has left

  196. dwd has joined

  197. j.r has left

  198. debacle has left

  199. MattJ

    iirc Samsung have their own push thing, or used to

  200. frainz has left

  201. pep.

    So you have to go through Google and then Google goes through Samsung? :p

  202. pep.

    Or you skip Google and have to support two APIs ?

  203. Zash


  204. Ge0rG

    I have no idea why it doesn't work properly. It was perfectly on time on LineageOS on my previous phone

  205. COM8 has joined

  206. dwd has left

  207. dwd has joined

  208. COM8 has left

  209. lskdjf has joined

  210. frainz has joined

  211. lskdjf has left

  212. frainz has left

  213. frainz has joined

  214. debacle has joined

  215. dwd has left

  216. Steve Kille has joined

  217. lskdjf has joined

  218. dwd has joined

  219. dwd has left

  220. dwd has joined

  221. dwd has left

  222. dwd has joined

  223. rtq3 has left

  224. rtq3 has joined

  225. j.r has joined

  226. karoshi has left

  227. karoshi has joined

  228. rtq3 has left

  229. rtq3 has joined

  230. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  231. flow

    pep., batching the push notifications and takign the devices sleep cycle into account is the only minor argument I am able to come up with, but besides that, an XMPP connection could be as efficient as an google push connection

  232. dwd has left

  233. dwd has joined

  234. flow

    but google does obviously neither for high priority FCM pushes, only probably for normal priority messages

  235. rtq3 has left

  236. pdurbin has joined

  237. rtq3 has joined

  238. rtq3 has left

  239. dwd has left

  240. pdurbin has left

  241. DebXWoody has left

  242. dwd has joined

  243. rtq3 has joined

  244. DebXWoody has joined

  245. rtq3 has left

  246. dwd has left

  247. dwd has joined

  248. Steve Kille has left

  249. dwd has left

  250. rtq3 has joined

  251. dwd has joined

  252. dwd has left

  253. dwd has joined

  254. dwd has left

  255. rion

    why jingle has only global tie-break error but not per content? What if we have multiple <content> elements in a request and only one of them is <tie-break>. Basically the same for <reason> which may be different

  256. neshtaxmpp has left

  257. DebXWoody has left

  258. Steve Kille has joined

  259. flow

    rion, potentially no particular reason and just something the authors did not consider. From how I understand jingle, having per content tie-breaks sounds sensible

  260. neshtaxmpp has joined

  261. COM8 has joined

  262. COM8 has left

  263. rion

    I'm implementing transport-replace in Psi right now. It's mostly finished. But these problems with tie-break and necessity to send transport offer twice make me frustrated.

  264. Kacper has joined

  265. dwd has joined

  266. j.r has left

  267. j.r has joined

  268. pdurbin has joined

  269. dwd has left

  270. dwd has joined

  271. peter has joined

  272. dwd has left

  273. rtq3 has left

  274. rtq3 has joined

  275. wurstsalat has left

  276. wurstsalat has joined

  277. pdurbin has left

  278. frainz has left

  279. frainz has joined

  280. frainz has left

  281. frainz has joined

  282. pep.

    Can there be fulljids in the roster? (that is, a fulljid I'd be subscribed to)

  283. XSF has left

  284. madhur.garg has left

  285. j.r has left

  286. rtq3 has left

  287. madhur.garg has joined

  288. j.r has joined

  289. rtq3 has joined

  290. madhur.garg has left

  291. madhur.garg has joined

  292. madhur.garg has left

  293. XSF has joined

  294. j.r has left

  295. j.r has joined

  296. dwd has joined

  297. edhelas has left

  298. madhur.garg has joined

  299. edhelas has joined

  300. MattJ

    pep., iirc yes, you can (in 6121, possibly not 3921), but don't expect it to work how you want, you can't subscribe to a full JID

  301. frainz has left

  302. frainz has joined

  303. rtq3 has left

  304. Zash

    Are you sure? I thought it was bare JIDs only

  305. rtq3 has joined

  306. MattJ

    Zash, I can find no such restriction

  307. DebXWoody has joined

  308. frainz has left

  309. frainz has joined

  310. Link Mauve

    I also remember a discussion on that topic, but none of the conclusions.

  311. peter has left

  312. rtq3 has left

  313. rtq3 has joined

  314. dwd

    To go back to this morning, the argument for push notifications over a TCP session comes down to that if all the pushes go through the same channel, this can be optimized in terms of combining radio activity. But I think it's a sketchy argument, given you'd have to introduce latency and things in order to combine them anyway.

  315. rion

    guys, what do you use to edit XEPs? To preview them quickly

  316. j.r has left

  317. wurstsalat has left

  318. wurstsalat has joined

  319. flow

    rion: sam build a inotify based make target that would build the html every time the xml changed

  320. flow

    I use something similar like that

  321. jonas’

    rion, I use a texteditor and my typical arrow-up-enter workflow

  322. jonas’

    with `make build/xep-1234.html`

  323. Zash


  324. pdurbin has joined

  325. rion

    ok. got it. thanks.

  326. david has left

  327. rtq3 has left

  328. rtq3 has joined

  329. DebXWoody has left

  330. kokonoe has left

  331. pdurbin has left

  332. wurstsalat has left

  333. wurstsalat has joined

  334. sezuan has left

  335. kokonoe has joined

  336. rtq3 has left

  337. lovetox has joined

  338. Yagiza has left

  339. Nekit has left

  340. j.r has joined

  341. DebXWoody has joined

  342. Steve Kille has left

  343. frainz has left

  344. frainz has joined

  345. frainz has left

  346. frainz has joined

  347. debacle has left

  348. COM8 has joined

  349. COM8 has left

  350. Steve Kille has joined

  351. Kacper has left

  352. wurstsalat has left

  353. wurstsalat has joined

  354. frainz has left

  355. frainz has joined

  356. Kacper has joined

  357. Yagiza has joined

  358. DebXWoody has left

  359. wurstsalat has left

  360. wurstsalat has joined

  361. lnj has left

  362. DebXWoody has joined

  363. lnj has joined

  364. DebXWoody has left

  365. DebXWoody has joined

  366. Dele Olajide has left

  367. frainz has left

  368. frainz has joined

  369. frainz has left

  370. COM8 has joined

  371. frainz has joined

  372. COM8 has left

  373. frainz has left

  374. frainz has joined

  375. frainz has left

  376. frainz has joined

  377. Kacper has left

  378. pdurbin has joined

  379. lovetox_ has joined

  380. lovetox_ has left

  381. pdurbin has left

  382. lovetox

    lol jabber.ru sends russian text on the IBR form

  383. lovetox

    no idea what they want me to put into the field

  384. jonas’

    lovetox, I’m not in jdev@ because I can’t join due to Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: sslhandshake error: dh key too small

  385. jonas’

    lovetox, I’m not in jdev@ because I can’t join due to Server-to-server connection failed: Connecting failed: ssl handshake error: dh key too small

  386. lovetox

    yeah i read your message

  387. jonas’

    ah ok

  388. jonas’

    you’ll have to live with that until jabber.org is fixed

  389. rion

    lovetox: try to type some russian =)

  390. lovetox

    thanks for the hint with background, i though for some reason 0,0,0 is white :D

  391. jonas’


  392. jonas’

    yeah, the jclib implementation is historically grown and a bit of a mess

  393. lovetox

    works good now for me, gajim has now also default avatar generation

  394. jonas’


  395. jonas’


  396. rion

    Пользователь = username Электронная почта = email Телефон = phone

  397. jonas’

    I need to get the text on semianon vs. nonanon in 392 and then it can be advanced IMO

  398. lovetox

    thanks rion i found my old account just now and rememberd the password

  399. jonas’

    (specifically, in a semianon room, you SHOULD use the nickname, even if you have privileges and can see the real JID; in a nonanon room you SHOULD use the real JID)

  400. lovetox

    yeah although this is bothersome to implement

  401. rion

    lovetox: so russian FSB won't follow you since phone number wasn't required previously

  402. lovetox

    my contact object does not have the information about the room settings the contact is in

  403. lovetox


  404. lovetox

    rion, yeah because anyone puts in the real number there :D

  405. jonas’

    lovetox, yeah, transferring that information will be a tad annoying

  406. jonas’

    but it might be good to do that anyways, considering that you don’t want to accidentally leak a real JID you only know because you are a privileged member of a room

  407. jonas’

    so carrying that information around might be good to present that bit ("you only see this because you are a moderator, tread carefully") in the UI

  408. Ge0rG

    lovetox: speaking of old accounts. There was a bunch of spam bots on Gajim.org recently. Do you have IBR enabled? Is it even meant to be a public server?

  409. rion

    > Accounts not used for more than 1 month are destroyed. > To register an account, go to this URL : <a href="https://gajim.org:5281/register_web" style="color:#000080">https://gajim.org:5281/register_web</a>

  410. lovetox

    please just send them to me, i will forward it to asterix to delete them

  411. kokonoe has left

  412. rion

    mm now I have an account on gajim.org

  413. lovetox

    and yeah register on gajim.org is enabled, but i will question if this is necessary

  414. lovetox

    as the server is not maintained for users really

  415. kokonoe has joined

  416. Ge0rG

    So maybe somebody broke the captcha? But it was only two bots, that's not the typical pattern. They come in hundreds normally

  417. lovetox

    there is no captcha, just a "what is 7 + 9"

  418. lovetox

    probably very hard for bots

  419. Ge0rG

    I don't have the JIDs here right now, you just weren't online for a long time

  420. lovetox

    yeah i dared to go on holiday 2 weeks

  421. Ge0rG

    lovetox: you need a mobile xmpp client! 😜

  422. lovetox

    hm im still evaluating what the real price of having a smartphone is, could take a while

  423. jonas’

    I’m interested in your calculations

  424. rion

    $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 7 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 5 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 3 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 3 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 7 $ expr $(wget -qO- https://gajim.org:5281/register_web | grep -oP '(?<=What is )[^?]+') 15

  425. rion

    but I love this captcha anyway :)

  426. Ge0rG

    lovetox: twypnt8xlmk5ok7r@gajim.org u0a6v@gajim.org

  427. lovetox

    thanks, forwarded

  428. Ge0rG


  429. alacer has left

  430. larma has left

  431. debacle has joined

  432. larma has joined

  433. lovetox

    Gajim makes XMPP great again

  434. lovetox

    user registrations just in May

  435. lovetox


  436. Douglas Terabyte has left

  437. rion


  438. Nekit has joined

  439. DebXWoody has left

  440. Zash

    Why have open registration?

  441. peter has joined

  442. Alex

    I use the simple match question plugin in Psi for a while for subscriptions. Bots are smart enough to answer the match question for a while now

  443. debacle has left

  444. lovetox

    does jabber.ru have some fork of ejabberd

  445. UsL has left

  446. UsL has joined

  447. lovetox

    they report version 3.2.x

  448. lovetox

    or is it that old

  449. lovetox

    they suffer from an older bug i reported to ejabberd

  450. lovetox

    not respecting the stream xml:lang

  451. Kacper has joined

  452. lorddavidiii has joined

  453. lorddavidiii has left

  454. pdurbin has joined

  455. lorddavidiii has joined

  456. larma has left

  457. larma has joined

  458. pdurbin has left

  459. rtq3 has joined

  460. rtq3 has left

  461. rtq3 has joined

  462. lorddavidiii has left

  463. frainz has left

  464. frainz has joined

  465. rtq3 has left

  466. peter has left

  467. rtq3 has joined

  468. neshtaxmpp has left

  469. kokonoe has left

  470. kokonoe has joined

  471. Holger

    That's an old version of the Business Edition.

  472. Holger

    Which is based on even older code of the Community Edition.

  473. igoose has left

  474. igoose has joined

  475. matlag has left

  476. neshtaxmpp has joined

  477. david has joined

  478. Yagiza has left

  479. COM8 has joined

  480. COM8 has left

  481. COM8 has joined

  482. COM8 has left

  483. goffi has left

  484. peter has joined

  485. remko has left

  486. Nekit has left

  487. neshtaxmpp has left

  488. neshtaxmpp has joined

  489. mimi89999 has left

  490. mimi89999 has joined

  491. pdurbin has joined

  492. debacle has joined

  493. david has left

  494. j.r has left

  495. j.r has joined

  496. pdurbin has left

  497. frainz has left

  498. frainz has joined

  499. wurstsalat has left

  500. lovetox has left

  501. Kacper has left

  502. pdurbin has joined

  503. pdurbin has left

  504. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  505. lnj has left

  506. Douglas Terabyte has left

  507. pdurbin has joined

  508. pdurbin has left

  509. UsL has left

  510. UsL has joined

  511. debacle has left

  512. pdurbin has joined

  513. peter has left

  514. pdurbin has left