my friend server has serious access from 127.0.0.1, brute force from sshd here is log: https://bgzashtita.es/tefter/raw/VbNthqzNKV can someone help.
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neshtaxmpp
my friend don't connect from 127.0.0.1, something illegaly connect from 127.0.0.1 and brute force my friend server for my friend password. maybe it is from sslh. can you comment how to compile latest sslh and show when ip is connecting in apache2 to show real ip and stop 127.0.0.1 from internet try connect my friend server.
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moparisthebest
neshtaxmpp, lol 127.0.0.1 is localhost, ie your friends own computer
moparisthebest
but also every ssh on the internet that accepts password auth is bruteforced 100% of the time, fact of life
moparisthebest
neshtaxmpp, set up this https://linode.com/docs/security/authentication/use-public-key-authentication-with-ssh/
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neshtaxmpp
moparisthebest: my friend server dont connect to him from 127.0.0.1. something from my friend server is using sshd to someone connecr from 127.0.0.1 do you know how to investigate what make 127.0.0.1: here is log: https://bgzashtita.es/tefter/VbNthqzNKV
neshtaxmpp
here is other logs: https://bgzashtita.es/tefter/
moparisthebest
neshtaxmpp: and did you follow the link
moparisthebest
IP doesn't matter ignore it
neshtaxmpp
my friend dont want use with certificate. my friend want to use with password. he is ok if they try with they real ip. but he is not ok " he dont like " 127.0.0.1 to be used from sshd. moparisthebest you comment " 127.0.0.1 is his own server " so this is serious issue. do you know how can help my friend investigate and block 127.0.0.1 becouse you confirm 127.0.0.1 is his server. thanks
moparisthebest
Well then your friend is an idiot
moparisthebest
Hope he has a good password set up
moparisthebest
Read sslh docs if you want transparent forwarding with real IP
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neshtaxmpp
moparisthebest: do you have manuals that can work for debian... like compilong, what is necessary, what permission after compile, what directory, what plugins and etc. so it after make install work. ivan dont speak english so i translate him.
moparisthebest
Nope just sslh docs
neshtaxmpp
moparisthebest: some comands to investigate why and how 127.0.0.1 is connecting, when this 127.0.0.1 is for home access. official nobody outside my friend server can't connect from 127.0.0.1, then how is that possible.
moparisthebest
How many ways can I repeat myself
moparisthebest
Sslh docs
moparisthebest
Transparent forwarding
moparisthebest
Read docs from sslh
moparisthebest
Sslh documentation, have a look
neshtaxmpp
moparisthebest: How many ways can I repeat myself
I dont understand them so i cant explain to him..
moparisthebest
Then I guess you are shit outta luck my friend
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jonas’
moparisthebest, don’t you have an IRC->XMPP gateway running?
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edhelas
what are the requirements to be part of the organization on Github ? https://github.com/orgs/xsf/people
jonas’
edhelas, asking nicely, probably
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edhelas
would it be possible to be added to be member of the XSF organisation on Github :3 ?
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Ge0rG
edhelas: it would probably help to commit to some task, so that nobody gets an impression that you are doing it for the sake of having an organization badge on your profile.
Ge0rG
I'm sure the Editor team always needs a helping hand
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edhelas
I could have a look at the tasks yeah :)
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pep.
vanitasvitae, I'm not sure I understand the discussion with disco for SCE?
pep.
Why would you need that. You'll have <eme/> with a namespace, and that namespace will tell you what encryption mechanism, and the encryption mechanism will be a profile of SCE, no?
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pep.
let's try to formulate that in the email
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jonas’
yes, the editor team could use helping hands
lovetox
pep., its not about detection if you receive a message
lovetox
its about sending a message
lovetox
you cant know if the recipient supports full stanza encryption or not
pep.
I think that's not the right question
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pep.
You can know if somebody supports $encryptionMechanism, because they will be a dicovery mechanism for it most likely, just as OX and OMEMO have their key published
lovetox
there is none
lovetox
thats what the discussion is about
pep.
And all you care about is if somebody supports $encryptionMechanism, that will use SCE. You don't need to know about SCE itself
pep.
lovetox, well there is none because nobody is using SCE atm
lovetox
yeah and the email is about how one can discover if a client can use SCE or OMEMO V2 or whatever
pep.
I wouldn't use SCE itself
pep.
what for?
pep.
You only need to know if somebody supports OMEMO2, that uses SCE
lovetox
because you cant decrypt my message if you dont support sce
pep.
But that's an implementation detail knowing about SCE
pep.
If you support OMEMO2 you will support SCE
lovetox
and how do i know if someone supports omemo2?
pep.
Because they publish their keys?
lovetox
so you saying putting the info into pubsub for every device
pep.
urn:xmpp:omemo:0
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lovetox
thats what the discussion is about
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lovetox
and its not as bad as in disco info, but still bad
pep.
Skimming through the thread though I really feel like it's not focusing on the right questions
pep.
how is that bad?
pep.
"Hey you want to talk to me, you know where to check for my keys. If there's nothing there, maybe I don't do $encryptionMechanism then"
lovetox
because there are multiple devices
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pep.
sure, well that's already an issue with any e2ee thing
lovetox
you need to determine a overall state, from all devices, implement logic according to it
pep.
Or any feature at all
lovetox
and then you have to think about X cases
lovetox
what if one device only supports X
pep.
You don't want to do that because as mentioned, carbons etc.
lovetox
and the other only >
lovetox
Y
pep.
And then MAM..
lovetox
yes so its useless that there is one device publishing that it is omemo2 capable
pep.
You don't care if only one device supports it because there's no way of knowing
lovetox
you just said we CAN know with pubsub
pep.
Do you need to know though?
lovetox
so what is it now
lovetox
omg
lovetox
pep. this discussion makes me a bit tired :D
pep.
hmm?
pep.
I'm sorry it's the first time I go through this myself, I have seen it before though
lovetox
yeah i noticed :) just think about it from the point of a developer wants his users to have a flawless conversion to a new standard
lovetox
in this case there is no easy way
lovetox
either you make a hard cut someday
lovetox
or you implement lots of hacky logic that depends on multiple things, and will fail from time to time
pep.
I think if you want "perfect" you need to control the whole ecosystem
pep.
It's just not possible here
lovetox
yeah i would propose all clients impl read support for omemo with sce
lovetox
and in a year we switch to send support
pep.
I'm sorry I'll repeat but "omemo with sce" doesn't mean anything
pep.
sce is but an implemntation detail
pep.
"omemo:0" that will be, I guess :)
lovetox
or that :)
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pep.
(to clarify a bit, "384 with sce" doesn't mean anything*, is what I wanted to say)
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vanitasvitae
pep.: the main point is, that xmpp has a lot of features. A client implementing sce would need to be able to properly handle all the features it supports additionally in an encrypted context.
pep.
What I'm saying is, a client won't implement sce by itself
vanitasvitae
Therefore it may be desirable to negotiate features like "i understand sce, but only for body, chat state and feature xyz"
pep.
hmm?
pep.
oh, wow
pep.
I wasn't even thinking about that, but now I'm confused
vanitasvitae
If you receive a message with a chat state notification, you want to know if it was contained inside a sce element or not.
vanitasvitae
(If it was encrypted or not)
pep.
"you want to know"?
pep.
You will know, by decrypting it, right?
vanitasvitae
Yes
vanitasvitae
Yeah but all your listeners need to be modified to differentiate between a protected message correction and a plain one.
vanitasvitae
As you probably want to communicate that to the user somehow
vanitasvitae
Like "watch out, this message correction was not encrypted"
pep.
Yeah no that was the part I didn't really understand, and even now that I have this missing piece of info, I still find this overkill
pep.
Sure you can do that already without discovering anything
pep.
There's no need for protocol support here
pep.
A client parsing a e2ee payload using sce will know what is and what isn't in the container
pep.
*an
vanitasvitae
That was my initial impression as well, but some people suggest it may be more complicated
vanitasvitae
Take smack for example. Literally all listeners in smack need to be rewritten to carry some sort of security information that tell the user how the triggering element was encrypted.
pep.
that's.. weird
pep.
Maybe the API is just not what it should be
vanitasvitae
For that reason it may be good to gradually start an implementation with just a subset of the features.
vanitasvitae
The thing is, that an sce message can contain encrypted and unencrypted elements at the same time
pep.
With slix I don't need all that
vanitasvitae
How does slix do listening for elements?
pep.
I mean I don't have an implementation of a container, but I see more or less how I could do it
pep.
"listening for elements"?
vanitasvitae
Hehe
pep.
You don't, you have a Message object and you lookup what you want to
vanitasvitae
Ah so slix works rather different to smack
vanitasvitae
in smack the user registers listeners for certain events and gets notified when a stanza for that event is received
pep.
There are also signals sent if your message contains X or Y, but most likely in a client you'll want to ignore these, and only use the helpers from the library
vanitasvitae
like for example if a chat state arrived, that will cause a listener to be fired
vanitasvitae
ah okay
pep.
Yeah you could also do that in slix, but I don't like it
pep.
Because then if I fire an event for "message" and an event for "eme" with the same message, now I have to have more global state in my app to know these are the same messages
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vanitasvitae
I see
vanitasvitae
So you suggest that SCE should be coupled to a new OMEMO namespace which then infers that the client knows how to handle any element inside the SCE content?
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pep.
Maybe I'm missing some part of the picture, but I think SCE should be used by itself. It should be like 373/374, be used as profiles
vanitasvitae
I'll have to think about that 😀
pep.
For the encryption mechanism. What tag then goes inside is up to the sending client I guess?
vanitasvitae
what tag do you mean?
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pep.
payload, body, replace, etc. etc.
vanitasvitae
ah
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vanitasvitae
ideally the sending client would put all elements inside the content, that do not concern the server.
pep.
sure
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pep.
The receiving client will know what's inside the encrypted payload, and can accordingly display a warning or not.
vanitasvitae
hm i think i like the idea of profiles.
pep.
There's a bit of handwaving here I agree
vanitasvitae
How would you signal what profiles a client supports?
vanitasvitae
I think the best way is to couple that information with the published keys somehow.
lovetox
vanitasvitae, there should only one single profile for omemp
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lovetox
really we should not get into the situation that one resource supports X and another Y
pep.
yeah, it'll be urn:xmpp:omemo:0, that is a profile of SCE
vanitasvitae
Aggreed
vanitasvitae
But what about ox? :P
vanitasvitae
OX:1?
pep.
sure
vanitasvitae
Alright
vanitasvitae
Sounds reasonable
lovetox
and yeah except for a gajim plugin there is no support in the wild for OX, so i think OX is easy to update
lovetox
ah and your smack impl, but i dont know if you published it
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nyco
t-1 min
nyco
ding
Seve
Dong
nyco
\o/
Guus
hi
nyco
where's the gavel?
Guuseyes ralphm
ralphm
Sorry, I was distracted.
ralphmbangs gavel
Guusmentions MattJ
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
ralphm
MattJ has sent regrets.
nyco
:)
Guus
ah ok
Guus
nothing for the agenda for me. I neglected to read up the chat logs for the last three meetings (that I missed)
ralphm
For the record, there was no meeting. Instead I discussed infra with MattJ.
ralphm
(last week, I mean)
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ralphm
1. Minute taker
Guus
oh, from trello, I'm missing something
nyco
I've missed meetings as well, sorry, and did not read minutes
Guus
The M-Sec project email. Was that resolved?
Guus
I'll do after-the-fact minutes of this meeting
Seve
Doesn't look like
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ralphm
2. Compliance Badges
ralphm
Where are we on this?
nyco
we should vote
nyco
board-only? members?
nyco
board-only is fast but non-democratic
members is longer, but safer meaning collective intelligence
ralphm
I don't think a members vote is needed.
Guus
... Did I sent a call for feedback, as I promised on this?
Guus
(if so, it didn't get any feedback. If I neglected, shame on me)
nyco
it's visual design, the more people the better
ralphm
Guus: you did on May 23
Guus
I _did_ sent that request, on Thu, 23 May
nyco
small subset for qualitative feedback
large set for quantitative
ralphm
I haven't seen any feedback
Guus
we've got no feedback. I'm unsure if asking for a vote would result in any meaningful feedback, tbh.
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Guus
Design shouldn't be a democratic endeavor, I think.
Guus
Ge0rG - did you happen to have more on this?
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nyco
design process, agree
design decision: the masses decide, one way or another (adoption vs rejection)
jonas’
I think a poll from the members to get an impression should be done
jonas’
if I may humbly say so from the floor
jonas’
the members voted for the XMPP logo (IIRC?), and I think that should also happen for the CS badges
Guus
not a hill for me to die on.
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ralphm
I am ok with a poll.
ralphm
But I wouldn't make a big deal on this.
ralphm
I.e. we could reiterate the request for feedback. If there is no response, again, we can just choose a design as Board.
nyco
good
Guus
Ge0rG suggested requesting for feedback, rather than 'picking one', to improve the existing designs (as a prelude to choosing one) iirc
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Guus
but, sure. Who wants to create a poll?
ralphm
A good suggestion, but it seems no one so far has cared to provide any.
Seve
So do we choose a design already?
ralphm
:-) it seems so
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ralphm
From what I've seen, the proposals in Guus' mail are all work in progress. I have a clear preference for the direction suggested by mray (https://opensourcedesign.net/jobs/jobs/2019-03-19-design-of-badges-for-different-xmpp-compliance-levels)
Seve
Me as well
Guus
Note that there's a good chance that we've lost his attention span
Guus
I have no significant preference.
nyco
the two others follow the de facto standard for badges formats
Guus
I badly want to avoid us taking the rest of this meeting discussing this though. Can we do this out-of-band?
nyco
yep
nyco
feedback request followup, then poll
ralphm
WFM
ralphm
Guus: can you send that reminder?
Seve
+1
Guus
Can someone else please?
nyco
I will
ralphm
Thanks
nyco
for the poll, which tool?
nyco
(fast answer or none, so we go to the next agenda item)
ralphm
not sure. maybe memberbot
ralphm
3. Fabian Sauter to join SCAM
Guus
If google forms can include pictures, that might be handy.
ralphm
from an earlier meeting I remember that we'd ask him for his motivation to join, beyond just wanting to
ralphm
Seve?
Guus
I don't recall this, but it seems sensible. Did we relay that request to him?
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Seve
I had the task to reach to him
ralphm
ralphm: Seve can you ask him to expand on what he wants to do on SCAM?
Seve: Yes, I will try to reach to him
ralphm
(from 6-6)
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Seve
I didn't send him an email unfortunately, I will do that right after the meeting, my bad.
ralphm
I moved the item to the left
ralphm
4. Roadmap page
ralphm
Also discussed on the 6-6 meeting
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ralphm
I'll send an e-mail to ask Council what they'd want to do with this.
jonas’
6-6 meeting?
Guus
Although I'd be happy for Council's feedback, i feel that this is a Board thingy
ralphm
2019-06-06, as a date
ralphm
Guus: given that Council is the body regarding our core business, standards development, and the current page lists mostly items concerning those, I think it more than just a Board thingy.
Seve
We can decide on XSF topics, but I wonder if we can put ourselves some roadmap for XEPs
ralphm
Seve: and that, too
Seve
So I guess it depends on what kind of roadmap are we talking about
nyco
not a XEP-only roadmap please
ralphm
A goal could be, for example, to get more of our specification to move forward in the process, with a focus on certain (groups of) XEPs.
ralphm
The original topic is whether we want to link to the Roadmap page, and the question then became two-fold: 1) do we still want a formal roadmap, 2) what should be on it, if so.
Guus
The XMPP Council is the technical steering group that approves XMPP Extension Protocols. It can have it's own goals, but the XSF roadmap should, in my opinion, be driven by Board - with backing from the community / membership, of which Council is an important part.
Guus
I think we should want one, but I fear we currently lack momentum to follow through on it.
Guus
As long as it takes us months to decide on something simple as a badge design, I fear that formalizing a roadmap is a bridge to far.
ralphm
The point I tried to make, and I think Seve, too, is that we don't, as an organization, *create* standards. We take proposals from the community, and then foster their standardization, weighing them against other similar proposals, and the existing set of specifications.
nyco
1/ yes, absolutely, we want, they want a roadmap, gives a general idea on our direction, no need to be precise though
2/ we should put non-tech-only content, but also maybe community, business, communication, whatever, I d'ont know yet, knowing that tech is our main thing
Guus
I'm pressed for time, and this meeting is running over.
nyco
me too, sorry
ralphm
Ok, Let's pick this one up next week. Please all think about what, if anything, *concretely* could be on here, but I'm with Guus that I'm not optimistic about us getting anywhere with it.
nyco
anyway, our currently online roadmap is outdated, I suggest to start from here and revise it
Seve
We may want to put it offline in the meantime, while a decision is being made.
Guus
we should prevent this turning into the 'setting priorities' thingy from last year.
ralphm
5. AOB
Guus
Vacation is upon us
jonas’
what is a 6-6 meeting?
ralphm
jonas’: it is date!
ralphm
a date
Seve
Haha
ralphm
on the calendar
jonas’
in the past
Guus
do we need to account for absence?
ralphm
jonas’: yes, a reference to what was discussed before
jonas’
I see
jonas’
nevermind me then
ralphm
I'm here next week
ralphm
But this is AOB
jonas’
(I somehow thought it was board+council, but that doesn’t make sense now because we’re just 5 people each)
Guus
I ment it as AOB 🙂
ralphm
oh, well, generally we just keep the calendar going. If we don't have quorum, no meeting.
Guus
ok
ralphm
6. Date of Next
ralphm
+1W
nyco
ok
ralphm
7. Close
ralphm
Thanks all!
ralphmbangs gavel
nyco
thx all
Seve
Thank you guys :)
Guus
Thanks
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moparisthebest
I don't currently run it jonas’ but https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd
moparisthebest
it "works", no authentication (like nickserv) is the reason I currently don't run it
moparisthebest
but also before I touched it again I'd rewrite in Rust, so, have at it :)
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oli
moparisthebest: do it (rewrite in Rust) ;)
moparisthebest
it's pretty far down on my list, ETA "years to never" :/
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oli
wait for MIX and ircv3 ;)
pep.
And add another few years to the ETA?
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oli
never + a few years = never
pep.
I knew it! (*does the gesture*)
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moparisthebest
yea so you could say it's got the same ETA as MIX >:)
Zash
Any Decade Now™
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Seve
Guus, thank you for the minutes
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Guus
Np
Zash
Hm, when unblocking a JID per XEP-0191 it says you should send the JID your current presence (assuming they're allowed to see it)
Zash
However it doesn't say anything about the previously blocked JIDs presence
Zash
Is it implied that you probably wanna re-probe or somesuch?