I made a thing: https://github.com/horazont/prometheus-xmpp-blackbox-exporter
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ralphm
Cool. Do you have an example output?
ralphm
jonas’
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jonas’
ralphm, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/588851b3/
ralphm
Cool. You could add labels for why the probe fails: maybe one for the mechanism, and one for the reason. Or something.
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jonas’
I don’t think that would be a valid use of labels
jonas’
(they should be low-cardinality)
jonas’
it could be made to export all offered SASL mechansims though
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jonas’
https://github.com/horazont/prometheus-xmpp-blackbox-exporter#build--usage more example output
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pep.
That could replace xmpp.net to some extent I guess :)
jonas’
that’s not the intention
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jonas’
and ralph hasn’t even shouted at me yet, which is good
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ralphm
Hah. Indeed I approve!
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Mikaela
Hi, how does XMPP handle organisations with 55 channels and managing them simultaneously e.g. by adding a moderator to all of them? https://talk.feneas.org/t/federated-instant-messenger-with-easy-access-control/68?u=mikaela
pep.
I'm not sure I get the question. What kind of "managing" are you talking about?
pep.
The way I'm picturing it atm is that it could very well be done the same way as IRC with a bot on each room, or at the server level directly. I don't know any specification for that
pep.
Or even with a client.
Mikaela
If I had 55 XMPP MUCs, how would I add/remove moderators in all of them simultaneously? In IRC I can create a GroupServ group and give the GroupServ group access to 55 IRC channels and then add users to the group with flag +c so they would have access to everything the group can do
lovetox
Mikaela, you develop server software that lets you do this
pep.
GroupServ is not an IRC thing right? It's an implementation detail on some IRC network?
lovetox
what you are asking is basically you have a muc component on a server and want to administrate it in some ways
Mikaela
I don't think this is very rare scenario, maybe the number of MUCs is, but I am under impression that XMPP and even Matrix think they are better than IRC, but they cannot handle groups at all. Then Slack came and it has same administrators in all rooms and now Riot wants to replace it and it seems unable to handle this scenario. I was hoping maybe I am wrong and XMPP handles this somehow natively, but I guess it's not designed for big teams either
lovetox
first server developers would need to give you these administration features
Mikaela
GroupServ is part of Atheme IRC services, I am not sure if ANope has these
lovetox
then clients could expose them via ad hoc commands to the server
pep.
Mikaela, it's entirely doable, just that apparently nobody has needed this before
Mikaela
I am happy to hear that
pep.
Also, it's not hard to be better than IRC, when all the features are not native to the protocol but just implementation details :)
lovetox
Mikaela, i understand the use case, but this is rather easy to do, but needs no XEP standards whatsoever
lovetox
just write a plugin for prosody or ejabberd, that adds a jid to some muc member list table
pep.
hmm, you might need to redefine the group on each MUC component though
lovetox
to execute this method we have already working mechanisms like ad hoc commands, where servers offer administration features
Daniel
Yeah since you are in the channel for the protocol xmpp and not any specific implementation the answer is its pretty doable. If I were to be hired to do this (hypothetical) I'd to pretty much exactly what lovetox is suggesting. Write prosody module to configure global moderators. Expose control over adhoc
Daniel
Also not sure if this covers your use case but server admins on ejabberd are automatically owners of every muc
pep.
same in prosody
pep.
But that doesn't cover the "group" thing, nor the "at the same time" I guess
Daniel
I mean it's probably not exactly what you need but it shows that something like this is possible
pep.
It's all possible but it would be local to a MUC component always
Mikaela
It does partially, but I guess ideally all the admins wouldn't be server owners, but I am happy with these answers, thank you
pep.
Mikaela, in prosody you can add component admins as well
pep.
(I guess there's something similar in ejabberd?)
Daniel
Or make a bot that is server admin. That you can use to delegate this to
Daniel
That would allow you to script in every language
Daniel
And not just the language the server is written in
pep.
Someday we'll have prosody modules written in Rust! :)
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Daniel
wrt mix it is interesting that I see more and more people asking for IRC level controls. Even 'voice' with voice by default presumably for the ability to soft ban people temporarily is something that people are now asking for
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7622#section-3.5 mentions a non-jid example quotation marks are not allowed in a localpart
lovetox
but the defined UserCaseMapping, has no problems with this
pep.
Daniel, hmm
Daniel
to be clear i'm not advocating for it to be in there
Daniel
it's just interesting to me. because until recently i didn’t think people needed that stuff
pep.
Well tbh it's not like there's many people in our public rooms either
pep.
I haven't seen that used on IRC for something other than spam-related stuff though
Daniel
oh from my brief experience the moderators of that one fairly popular public MUC are pretty strict and try to get every one on topic and even kick people and stuff
Daniel
which is not really how i would handle that and that's the reason i'm not in that muc
Daniel
but maybe being strict on that kinda stuff is also why they are so popular
Daniel
dunno
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lovetox
from where does the rule come that Leading spaces in resourcepart is not allowed?
Zash
Do you mean Nicknames?
Zash
I don't think there's such a rule for resourceparts
lovetox
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7622#section-3.5
lovetox
scroll to invalid examples
lovetox
the definition of resourcepart says only to apply opaqueString profile
lovetox
which at least in my impl has no problems with spaces also not in first place
Zash
Ah, must be new in the PRECIS based JID definition
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Zash
I don't see that anywhere else
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Daniel
PRECIS is going to be a problem if we ever actually do this
lovetox
what do you mean? im doing this already :D
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Daniel
and you run into problems
Zash
I don't see where this is forbidden
lovetox
I also dont but somewhere it is, i cant change my nick on a ejabberd
Daniel
i vaguely remember trailing and leading spaces get normalized to nothing
Zash
I thought it was only for nicknames as per https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8266#section-5
lovetox
i also dont get jid malformed, it just leaves the space
Daniel
so ' test' becomes 'test'
Daniel
but i might be wrong
Zash
In some more abstract PRECIS class or?
lovetox
Daniel it seem so, i have no problem with that but i want to read were it actually says that
lovetox
Zash but we dont use the Nickname class
Zash
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8264 doesn't say anything
Daniel
i string prep ' ' is a valid resource. in precis it gets normalized to nothing, which then is not a valid resource
Daniel
or something
lovetox
Daniel, yes but there is additional rules
lovetox
and resourcepart has to be at least 1 char
lovetox
precis does not enforce ALL rules
lovetox
we have in xmpp
lovetox
but most of it, the rest you have to check yourself
lovetox
but i dont find anything about the leading and trailing space thing
Zash
Huh
Zash
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6885#appendix-B.7 says that in resourceprep
> Mapping: Spaces are mapped to nothing
waqas
All spaces or just spaces at the start?
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Zash
This seems to be a lie
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Zash
Or mistake
Zash
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3920#appendix-B doesn't explicitly say so
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Zash
Unless by pointing to the entire https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3454#section-5 it includes spaces too
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lovetox
But in 7564 it says that Opaque strings such as passwords and nicknames (PRECIS-Nickname)
Zash
Link Mauve, your nickname is forbidden!
lovetox
so maybe there is somewhere something thats says to actually use PRECIS-Nickname
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Zash
But resources are not nicknames
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Zash
Are we descending into OOP-y class hierarchy madness now?
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lovetox
no? pretty sure MUC speaks of resources when talking about nicknames
Zash
You misunderstand
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Zash
Nicknames are resources
Zash
Resources are not nicknames
Zash
Nicknames are a subset/subclass of resourecs
lovetox
yes ! i see my mistake !
Zash
And resources are a subclass of opaquestring, which is a subclass of freeformstring, which is .. something?
Zash
Please correct me if I'm not reading these twenty-eleven RFCs correctly
Zash
I need a class tree viewer thing
lovetox
im having currently 10 RFCs open in my browser to figure this shit out