XSF Discussion - 2019-07-01

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  173. Guus

    Am I right to conclude that adding support for XEP-0157 as well as XEP-0232 on a server will result in more than one service discovery extension to be added to the disco#info response (which, according to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0128.html#impl is "unlikely")?

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  180. Daniel


  181. Daniel

    and i think i've seen clients do that

  182. Daniel

    because it triggered a bug in my caps calculation

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  184. Guus

    (besides the point: what two extensions are added by clients? XEP-0157 seems applicable to servers only?)

  185. Daniel

    i was wondering that myself. but i don’t recall. that bug was fixed like 4 years ago or so

  186. Zash

    What 128 usages are there besides those two?

  187. Guus

    don't know. But these two now seem to bite the naive implementation in Openfire that defines that this shall not happen. 😃

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  189. Zash

    Hm, there's the http upload thing

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  191. Zash

    Altho also mostly for servers

  192. Zash

    Not that you couldn't do p2p http upload if you really wanted

  193. Daniel

    or yeah maybe it was prosody

  194. Daniel

    for when prosody does http upload on the server domain

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  196. Zash

    In prosody it's handled through the same internal method (roughly named lists of items attached to the host, tracked per module), so it shouldn't have any problem with arbitrary number of forms. Should be no different from features.

  197. Daniel

    sure. i just meant maybe it was prosody (and not a client) that triggered the multi form bug caps calculation in Conversations

  198. Guus

    right, makes sense

  199. Daniel

    because with http upload and 157 you end up with two forms on the server domain

  200. Guus


  201. Daniel

    and servers have caps

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  203. Guus

    should the remark in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0128.html#impl be modified?

  204. Guus

    seems less unlikely to happen.

  205. Daniel

    on one hand just remove that sentence seems reasonable on the other hand it's more than just editorial and we probably can’t do that to an active xep?

  206. Daniel

    but if we can i'd vote for removing it

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  209. jonas’

    Could one of you draft a PR?

  210. jonas’

    then it can be discussed in this weeks council meeting

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  212. jonas’

    I’d like to note that I find it curious that a XEP which defines wire format is only Informational :)

  213. Zash

    Perhaps it's actually defined in XEP-0030?

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  215. Daniel

    i mean the wire format is 0004

  216. Zash

    Hm, no mention

  217. Daniel

    and 128 is probably meant as. 'here is an idea why not use 0004'

  218. Zash

    Why not put 0004 everywhere!!!

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  223. jonas’

    rebase all of XMPP on top of 0004!!k

  224. Zash

    0004 in pubsub!

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  231. Guus

    jonas’ https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/797

  232. jonas’

    Guus, \o/

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  258. Daniel

    is PAM still a thing?

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  264. Zash

    Sorta needed by MIX, no?

  265. Daniel

    mhhh i was thinking about regular PAM not MIX-PAM

  266. Daniel

    "In future, this specification MAY be incorporated into Pubsub Account Management (XEP-0376) [4] (PAM) which follows a similar model. " <- maybe we should make that decision before we roll out mix

  267. Daniel

    and not in a future after mix was deployed

  268. flow

    > Zash> Sorta needed by MIX, no? unfortunately not

  269. Zash

    Because we concluded that you could do presence based MIX?

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  298. flow

    no MIX does simply not re-use xep376 semantics

  299. flow

    or, it does re-use the semantics but not the protocol

  300. Daniel

    Imho it would be kinda neat if it did. Because then we would get regular pam for free and can use that in other places as well

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  322. vanitasvitae

    Hehe, funny that XEP-0392: Consistent Color Generation already exists in two incompatible versions :D

  323. flow

    Daniel, totally aggree

  324. pep.

    vanitasvitae, which ones?

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  326. Zash

    YCbCr and HSLuv?

  327. Zash


  328. Zash

    And CRC32?

  329. pep.

    So it doesn't exist in two incompatible versions, it exists in HSLuv, no? :)

  330. pep.

    (I know dino uses a slightly different one, but they're similar enough that jonas was going to add it to the XEP iirc)

  331. pep.

    http://www.hsluv.org/comparison/ I think dino uses HPLuv

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  333. vanitasvitae

    If I'm not mistaken, version 0.4.0 produces different results than 0.6.0 does

  334. pep.

    vanitasvitae, I guess the point is to use the latest version :)

  335. vanitasvitae

    Yeah but still :D

  336. pep.

    Things evolve

  337. Zash

    That's what happens to Experimental XEPs

  338. pep.

    To anything! To Life!

  339. pep.

    It also happens for Final XEPs, just not in a direct way. A new XEP gets created and people are encouraged to move to it, and after a few years this new XEP is now the "modern" way of doing it

  340. pep.

    Stability is an illusion

  341. Zash

    Is this turning into a Debian rant? 😛

  342. vanitasvitae

    To be clear, I just find it funny :D

  343. pep.

    I wasn't going to mention it :p

  344. pep.

    Zash, though, Debian's definition of stable is different

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  346. Daniel

    i should probably give hpl a try for Conversations as well

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  358. jonas’

    vanitasvitae, there’s a reason I haven’t asked for a Last Call yet ;)

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  361. vanitasvitae

    jonas’: can the authors decide for themselves when to issue the last call?

  362. pep.

    The author has control over the experimental XEP and decide when to LC yes

  363. Daniel

    They can ask council

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  365. vanitasvitae

    Ah ok

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  368. jonas’

    anyone can ask Council

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  370. jonas’

    vanitasvitae, and you probably didn’t even spot the subtle differences for MUCs betwene the versions ;)

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  376. vanitasvitae

    jonas’: jids vs. nicks?

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