XSF Discussion - 2019-07-13

  1. lovetox has left
  2. remko has joined
  3. Douglas Terabyte has left
  4. UsL has left
  5. UsL has joined
  6. remko has left
  7. sonny has joined
  8. igoose has joined
  9. UsL has left
  10. sonny has left
  11. neshtaxmpp has left
  12. neshtaxmpp has joined
  13. UsL has joined
  14. Yagiza has joined
  15. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  16. UsL has left
  17. igoose has left
  18. Alex has joined
  19. mimi89999 has left
  20. mimi89999 has joined
  21. Daniel has left
  22. zach has left
  23. Douglas Terabyte has left
  24. patrick has left
  25. Daniel has joined
  26. adityaborikar has left
  27. Daniel has left
  28. Daniel has joined
  29. adityaborikar has joined
  30. igoose has joined
  31. Lance has left
  32. rion has left
  33. rion has joined
  34. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  35. adityaborikar has left
  36. karoshi has joined
  37. goffi has joined
  38. goffi has left
  39. alacer has left
  40. adityaborikar has joined
  41. waqas has joined
  42. adityaborikar has left
  43. Lance has joined
  44. valo has left
  45. Mikaela has joined
  46. adityaborikar has joined
  47. larma has left
  48. Mikaela has left
  49. valo has joined
  50. Mikaela has joined
  51. ralphm has left
  52. ralphm has joined
  53. larma has joined
  54. winfried has left
  55. winfried has joined
  56. lskdjf has joined
  57. ralphm Daniel: issues with sending XEP-0357 to include body or potentially the whole stanzas: privacy and size limits
  58. Daniel ralphm: if this is in response to my tweet I was mostly referring to the paragraph following 'business rules. Not necessarily the entire section.
  59. ralphm For VEON we used pushes for voice calling, too, and found that including all the information, including candidates and such, would not fit in platform notifications
  60. Daniel Communicating what triggered the push is complicated ™ and I don't have a good solution for that
  61. ralphm So we employed a scheme to compress the stanzas with a precalculated dictionary
  62. Daniel ralphm: I think the idea in sending the entire stanza is that the app server can make the decision
  63. Daniel And either just make the judgment call between priority or not.
  64. ralphm Sure, for calling this is also important as it allows for much quicker call setup.
  65. Daniel Or do something else like the compression thing
  66. ralphm I.e. you spare some expensive round-trips, and when it comes in you have to wait for the user to look at the incoming call, while in the background you establish the connection to the server.
  67. ralphm Not sure if the same is really an issue for group chats
  68. ralphm That's less time critical.
  69. Daniel In a federated environment the privacy concerns are probably the most predominant ones. But it also _mostly_ concerns iOS so I'm not super involved into what the community currently considers best practices
  70. mimi89999 has left
  71. rtq3 has joined
  72. mimi89999 has joined
  73. Daniel > I.e. you spare some expensive round-trips, and when it comes in you have to wait for the user to look at the incoming call, while in the background you establish the connection to the server. Those are good points though that I'm sure the people involved in this haven't considered yet but are definitely worth considering for a revamp of 357
  74. ralphm Maybe it is good enough for a client to just be woken by its server (implementing push) and then retrieve MAM history.
  75. ralphm (for group chat, not calls)
  76. ralphm Note that services like Slack don't guarantee immediate notification, but rather in the few-seconds range.
  77. ralphm But sure you only have limited time to do something in response to a notification, so you either need some body, or a fast reconnect.
  78. Daniel Yes push is complicated. That's why during the sprint we ultimately came to the conclusion that it is best to give the app server all the information so the app server can make those decisions. Because notification settings might also be client and platform depended. So either you need a way to upload your rules to your own server or to your app server
  79. ralphm I'm not talking about local system notifications, those are not really related
  80. Daniel I was told on iOS they kinda are
  81. ralphm I.e. your app can definitely get push notifications without the user seeing any notification.
  82. Daniel If you want to use high priority
  83. Daniel But yeah that's also why I'm personally not very familiar with the matter. On Android I just high priority push all the time and let the app figure it out
  84. Daniel But I was told on iOS that's not that easy
  85. ralphm Requiring high priority notifications for MUC seems like an edge case.
  86. ralphm I.e. if messages in a group are so highly time sensitive, maybe you are using the wrong medium.
  87. ralphm And yeah, iOS is picky. Android has been tightening stuff down, too.
  88. ralphm Now we're slightly on the topic, how is that notification channel separation between one-on-one, mentions, other group messages coming along? 😋
  89. Daniel It's still on my todo list.
  90. ralphm 😃
  91. zach has joined
  92. waqas has left
  93. adityaborikar has left
  94. adityaborikar has joined
  95. waqas has joined
  96. madhur.garg has joined
  97. remko has joined
  98. madhur.garg has left
  99. debacle has joined
  100. lskdjf has left
  101. lskdjf has joined
  102. wurstsalat has joined
  103. Holger > I.e. if messages in a group are so highly time sensitive, maybe you are using the wrong medium. I see no basis to assume group messages being less time sensitive than 1:1. I think people totally expect being able to use private IM groups for communication about appointments and stuff just like they do in 1:1 chat.
  104. Guus has left
  105. Guus has joined
  106. wurstsalat has left
  107. wurstsalat has joined
  108. Nekit has joined
  109. rtq3 has left
  110. Guus has left
  111. Guus has joined
  112. rtq3 has joined
  113. ralphm I wasn't comparing 1:1 to group, rather messages vs. calls.
  114. UsL has joined
  115. neshtaxmpp has left
  116. Guus has left
  117. Guus has joined
  118. karoshi has left
  119. karoshi has joined
  120. ralphm For calls you preferably get all the candidiates and other info as fast as possible from the callee via Push, so that your app can already start setting up, figure out its own candidates, etc., notify the user, present a calling screen, without having to reestablish the XMPP connection. While the slow human reacts, there is plenty of time to set up that connection, retrieve avatars or other information, and possibly update the screen. When the slow human has finally accepted the call, connecting is noticibly much faster.
  121. ralphm I'd say for text messages, the relative need for speed is in the several seconds range, so might choose to go with the push-just-wakes-up scenario.
  122. DebXWoody has left
  123. ralphm Sometimes good enough is good enough.
  124. ralphm Holger: ^
  125. debacle has left
  126. lee has left
  127. lee has joined
  128. lnj has joined
  129. remko has left
  130. lnj has left
  131. lnj has joined
  132. neshtaxmpp has joined
  133. igoose has left
  134. UsL has left
  135. igoose has joined
  136. DebXWoody has joined
  137. Holger Ah, right.
  138. Lance has left
  139. winfried has left
  140. winfried has joined
  141. igoose has left
  142. DebXWoody has left
  143. DebXWoody has joined
  144. lumi has joined
  145. igoose has joined
  146. debacle has joined
  147. rtq3 has left
  148. rtq3 has joined
  149. Guus has left
  150. Guus has joined
  151. rtq3 has left
  152. rtq3 has joined
  153. adityaborikar has left
  154. adityaborikar has joined
  155. alacer has joined
  156. APach has left
  157. APach has joined
  158. pdurbin has joined
  159. rtq3 has left
  160. COM8 has joined
  161. COM8 has left
  162. sonny has joined
  163. rtq3 has joined
  164. rtq3 has left
  165. rtq3 has joined
  166. lumi has left
  167. kokonoe has left
  168. kokonoe has joined
  169. igoose has left
  170. igoose has joined
  171. pdurbin has left
  172. Yagiza has left
  173. Yagiza has joined
  174. Yagiza has left
  175. debacle has left
  176. patrick has joined
  177. rion has left
  178. rion has joined
  179. SaltyBones has joined
  180. igoose has left
  181. Nekit has left
  182. Nekit has joined
  183. Nekit has left
  184. lnj has left
  185. lnj has joined
  186. lovetox has joined
  187. igoose has joined
  188. igoose has left
  189. igoose has joined
  190. igoose has left
  191. igoose has joined
  192. igoose has left
  193. igoose has joined
  194. igoose has left
  195. igoose has joined
  196. Nekit has joined
  197. igoose has left
  198. igoose has joined
  199. rion has left
  200. rion has joined
  201. neshtaxmpp has left
  202. lovetox_ has joined
  203. igoose has left
  204. igoose has joined
  205. remko has joined
  206. neshtaxmpp has joined
  207. balu_der_baer has joined
  208. patrick has left
  209. balu_der_baer has left
  210. remko has left
  211. rtq3 has left
  212. lovetox_ has left
  213. lovetox_ has joined
  214. lovetox_ has left
  215. lovetox_ has joined
  216. valo has left
  217. lovetox_ has left
  218. valo has joined
  219. lovetox_ has joined
  220. lovetox_ has left
  221. lovetox_ has joined
  222. lovetox_ has left
  223. neshtaxmpp has left
  224. DebXWoody has left
  225. DebXWoody has joined
  226. lovetox_ has joined
  227. lovetox_ has left
  228. lovetox_ has joined
  229. lovetox__ has joined
  230. lovetox_ has left
  231. lovetox__ has left
  232. lovetox_ has joined
  233. lovetox__ has joined
  234. lovetox_ has left
  235. lovetox__ has left
  236. neshtaxmpp has joined
  237. lovetox_ has joined
  238. lovetox__ has joined
  239. lovetox__ has left
  240. lovetox_ has left
  241. debacle has joined
  242. pdurbin has joined
  243. lovetox_ has joined
  244. lovetox__ has joined
  245. lovetox_ has left
  246. lovetox__ has left
  247. lovetox_ has joined
  248. lovetox__ has joined
  249. lovetox__ has left
  250. lovetox_ has left
  251. lovetox_ has joined
  252. lovetox__ has joined
  253. lnj has left
  254. pdurbin has left
  255. lovetox__ has left
  256. lovetox_ has left
  257. lovetox_ has joined
  258. lovetox__ has joined
  259. edhelas has left
  260. edhelas has joined
  261. lovetox__ has left
  262. lovetox_ has left
  263. remko has joined
  264. lovetox_ has joined
  265. lovetox__ has joined
  266. lovetox__ has left
  267. lovetox_ has left
  268. lovetox_ has joined
  269. lovetox__ has joined
  270. lovetox__ has left
  271. lovetox_ has left
  272. patrick has joined
  273. balu_der_baer has joined
  274. igoose has left
  275. igoose has joined
  276. lovetox_ has joined
  277. lovetox__ has joined
  278. lovetox__ has left
  279. lovetox_ has left
  280. lovetox_ has joined
  281. lovetox__ has joined
  282. lovetox_ has left
  283. lovetox__ has left
  284. lovetox_ has joined
  285. lovetox__ has joined
  286. remko has left
  287. lovetox__ has left
  288. lovetox_ has left
  289. Daniel has left
  290. Mikaela has left
  291. Mikaela has joined
  292. remko has joined
  293. curen has left
  294. Yagiza has joined
  295. neshtaxmpp has left
  296. neshtaxmpp has joined
  297. remko has left
  298. goffi has joined
  299. goffi has left
  300. lovetox_ has joined
  301. lovetox__ has joined
  302. lovetox_ has left
  303. lovetox__ has left
  304. lovetox_ has joined
  305. lovetox__ has joined
  306. lovetox_ has left
  307. lovetox__ has left
  308. lovetox_ has joined
  309. lovetox__ has joined
  310. lovetox_ has left
  311. lovetox__ has left
  312. lovetox_ has joined
  313. lovetox__ has joined
  314. lovetox__ has left
  315. lovetox_ has left
  316. lovetox_ has joined
  317. lovetox__ has joined
  318. lovetox__ has left
  319. UsL has joined
  320. lovetox_ has left
  321. pdurbin has joined
  322. UsL has left
  323. UsL has joined
  324. neshtaxmpp has left
  325. balu_der_baer has left
  326. rtq3 has joined
  327. pdurbin has left
  328. lovetox_ has joined
  329. lovetox_ has left
  330. lovetox_ has joined
  331. lovetox_ has left
  332. lovetox_ has joined
  333. lovetox_ has left
  334. lovetox_ has joined
  335. lovetox_ has left
  336. lovetox_ has joined
  337. lovetox_ has left
  338. lovetox_ has joined
  339. lovetox_ has left
  340. lovetox_ has joined
  341. lovetox__ has joined
  342. lovetox__ has left
  343. lovetox_ has left
  344. larma has left
  345. larma has joined
  346. lovetox_ has joined
  347. lovetox__ has joined
  348. lovetox_ has left
  349. lovetox__ has left
  350. lovetox_ has joined
  351. lovetox__ has joined
  352. lovetox__ has left
  353. lovetox_ has left
  354. remko has joined
  355. rtq3 has left
  356. rtq3 has joined
  357. sonny has left
  358. lovetox_ has joined
  359. lovetox_ has left
  360. lovetox_ has joined
  361. lovetox_ has left
  362. goffi has joined
  363. goffi has left
  364. sonny has joined
  365. lovetox_ has joined
  366. UsL has left
  367. Daniel has joined
  368. remko has left
  369. sonny has left
  370. sonny has joined
  371. sonny has left
  372. sonny has joined
  373. sonny has left
  374. sonny has joined
  375. Yagiza has left
  376. pdurbin has joined
  377. Nekit has left
  378. neshtaxmpp has joined
  379. pdurbin has left
  380. igoose has left
  381. mr.fister has left
  382. mr.fister has joined
  383. mr.fister has left
  384. mr.fister has joined
  385. lumi has joined
  386. lovetox_ has left
  387. lovetox_ has joined
  388. lovetox_ has left
  389. lovetox_ has joined
  390. lovetox_ has left
  391. lovetox_ has joined
  392. lovetox_ has left
  393. lovetox_ has joined
  394. lovetox_ has left
  395. lovetox_ has joined
  396. lovetox_ has left
  397. lovetox_ has joined
  398. lovetox_ has left
  399. lovetox_ has joined
  400. lovetox_ has left
  401. alacer has left
  402. lovetox_ has joined
  403. lovetox_ has left
  404. lovetox_ has joined
  405. lovetox_ has left
  406. lovetox_ has joined
  407. lovetox_ has left
  408. UsL has joined
  409. lovetox_ has joined
  410. lovetox_ has left
  411. lovetox_ has joined
  412. lovetox_ has left
  413. lovetox_ has joined
  414. lovetox_ has left
  415. lovetox_ has joined
  416. lovetox_ has left
  417. remko has joined
  418. lovetox_ has joined
  419. lovetox_ has left
  420. lovetox_ has joined
  421. lovetox_ has left
  422. lovetox_ has joined
  423. lovetox_ has left
  424. rtq3 has left
  425. lovetox_ has joined
  426. lovetox_ has left
  427. lovetox_ has joined
  428. lovetox_ has left
  429. lovetox_ has joined
  430. lovetox_ has left
  431. rtq3 has joined
  432. lovetox_ has joined
  433. lovetox_ has left
  434. lovetox_ has joined
  435. lovetox_ has left
  436. lovetox_ has joined
  437. lovetox_ has left
  438. lovetox_ has joined
  439. lovetox_ has left
  440. lovetox_ has joined
  441. lovetox_ has left
  442. lovetox_ has joined
  443. lovetox_ has left
  444. remko has left
  445. rtq3 has left
  446. rtq3 has joined
  447. mr.fister has left
  448. mr.fister has joined
  449. mr.fister has left
  450. mr.fister has joined
  451. rtq3 has left
  452. lovetox_ has joined
  453. lovetox_ has left
  454. lovetox_ has joined
  455. lovetox_ has left
  456. lovetox_ has joined
  457. lovetox_ has left
  458. lovetox_ has joined
  459. lovetox_ has left
  460. lovetox_ has joined
  461. lovetox_ has left
  462. lovetox_ has joined
  463. lovetox_ has left
  464. lovetox_ has joined
  465. lovetox_ has left
  466. mr.fister has left
  467. mr.fister has joined
  468. Mikaela has left
  469. lovetox_ has joined
  470. lovetox_ has left
  471. lovetox_ has joined
  472. lovetox_ has left
  473. lovetox_ has joined
  474. lovetox_ has left
  475. lovetox_ has joined
  476. lovetox_ has left
  477. lovetox_ has joined
  478. lovetox_ has left
  479. lovetox_ has joined
  480. lovetox_ has left
  481. pdurbin has joined
  482. lovetox_ has joined
  483. lovetox_ has left
  484. lovetox_ has joined
  485. lovetox_ has left
  486. Lance has joined
  487. lovetox_ has joined
  488. lovetox_ has left
  489. lovetox_ has joined
  490. lovetox_ has left
  491. lovetox_ has joined
  492. lovetox_ has left
  493. lovetox_ has joined
  494. lovetox_ has left
  495. lovetox_ has joined
  496. lovetox_ has left
  497. lnj has joined
  498. mimi89999 has left
  499. mimi89999 has joined
  500. lovetox_ has joined
  501. lovetox_ has left
  502. pdurbin has left
  503. lovetox_ has joined
  504. lovetox_ has left
  505. mimi89999 has left
  506. mimi89999 has joined
  507. mimi89999 has left
  508. mimi89999 has joined
  509. mimi89999 has left
  510. mimi89999 has joined
  511. debacle has left
  512. rtq3 has joined
  513. lovetox_ has joined
  514. lovetox_ has left
  515. lovetox_ has joined
  516. lovetox_ has left
  517. lovetox has left
  518. Nekit has joined
  519. rtq3 has left
  520. rtq3 has joined
  521. mimi89999 has left
  522. mimi89999 has joined
  523. UsL has left
  524. UsL has joined
  525. lnj has left
  526. karoshi has left
  527. murabito has joined
  528. remko has joined