XSF Discussion - 2019-07-29

00:07:14 larma has left
00:07:17 larma has joined
00:10:04 Steve Kille has left
00:24:41 waqas has joined
00:45:17 Nekit has left
01:09:22 Lance has joined
01:21:46 pdurbin has joined
01:25:13 lskdjf has left
01:25:38 afrogeek has left
01:25:40 afrogeek has joined
01:29:14 moparisthebest has left
01:29:40 moparisthebest has joined
01:30:38 moparisthebest has left
01:31:09 moparisthebest has joined
01:39:12 adityaborikar has left
01:39:14 adityaborikar has joined
01:40:11 remko has joined
01:44:49 adityaborikar has left
01:45:24 pdurbin has left
01:56:22 remko has left
02:01:46 neshtaxmpp has left
02:01:47 neshtaxmpp has joined
02:05:23 waqas has left
02:24:08 Lance has left
02:29:44 waqas has joined
02:31:53 adityaborikar has joined
02:35:55 waqas has left
02:35:56 waqas has joined
02:47:33 adityaborikar has left
03:04:24 adityaborikar has joined
03:09:46 moparisthebest has left
03:10:04 Lance has joined
03:10:12 moparisthebest has joined
03:19:55 valo has left
03:20:47 valo has joined
03:21:45 pdurbin has joined
03:29:57 pdurbin has left
03:30:28 andy has joined
03:37:11 adityaborikar has left
03:37:27 adityaborikar has joined
03:46:32 Yagiza has joined
03:55:05 kokonoe has left
03:56:20 kokonoe has joined
03:58:11 Yagiza has left
04:03:54 Yagiza has joined
04:08:18 adityaborikar has left
04:34:29 pdurbin has joined
05:26:43 lovetox has joined
05:34:51 pdurbin has left
05:40:36 pdurbin has joined
05:41:02 lovetox has left
05:41:54 karoshi has joined
05:46:29 wurstsalat has joined
06:21:36 zach has left
06:21:39 zach has joined
06:41:37 lnj has joined
07:03:57 waqas has left
07:04:27 sezuan has joined
07:14:05 Mikaela has joined
07:33:18 alameyo has left
07:33:25 alameyo has joined
07:46:09 adityaborikar has joined
07:56:35 Guus has left
07:56:36 Guus has joined
08:31:54 adityaborikar has left
08:32:22 adityaborikar has joined
08:35:28 lskdjf has joined
08:51:01 Guus Dave, I got your one on one, but my reply isn't being delivered.
08:52:26 Dele (Mobile) has joined
08:52:27 Dele (Mobile) has left
08:52:58 eve has joined
08:54:32 debacle has joined
08:54:39 dele2 has joined
08:54:40 lnj has left
08:55:06 eve has left
08:55:12 eve has joined
08:57:49 Ge0rG This is an accurate depiction of why matrix wins over XMPP.
08:57:55 eve has left
08:58:02 eve has joined
08:59:44 adityaborikar has left
08:59:46 adityaborikar has joined
09:23:03 Guus Yes, this is bad, although I've never experienced it with anyone else than Dave
09:23:35 Guus Which I suspect is running non-production code
09:24:46 jonas’ non-production s2s code
09:25:16 Guus I'm guessing he's running s2s through Metre
09:41:17 neshtaxmpp has left
09:43:31 neshtaxmpp has joined
09:46:02 UsL has left
09:53:56 ralphm 👍
09:55:00 Ge0rG I've experienced asymmetric s2s with other people than Dave.
10:01:00 ralphm I'm sure Matrix is bug free. Let's just quit.
10:03:36 Ge0rG Yes. Or let's maybe fix the reliability issues that we are mostly ignoring for two decades now.
10:04:40 fippo we did s2s interop testing... a decade ago
10:05:47 ralphm I've seen various proposals being discussed, here, on list, and at summits, but there's a whole lot of whataboutism and stuff, and not a lot of just experimenting. Dave's Metre is at least an attempt to figure out all the weird corners.
10:05:47 Ge0rG fippo: this is not about protocol-level interop, but about network connectivity corner cases, or connections being stuck going unnoticed
10:06:36 Ge0rG Things like the periodic pinger module of some widely-used server implementation which will _ping_ the other server, but won't act in any way on a timeout.
10:06:38 ralphm I'm also not talking just about s2s, but good examples are MIX and SASL2.
10:07:33 Link Mauve Ge0rG, there are still very few servers which support bidi, yours doesn’t for instance.
10:07:44 Link Mauve ~~It’s the first step towards no-asymetric s2s.~~ ✎
10:07:54 Link Mauve ~~It’s the first step towards no-assymetric s2s.~~ ✎ ✏
10:08:14 Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-asymmetric s2s. ✏
10:08:22 Link Mauve (Words are hard.)
10:08:30 fippo ge0rg: true, we just tested the basics. and bidi is an attempt to solve some of those issues
10:09:40 Ge0rG Link Mauve: maybe because mod_bidi is a community module that's not enabled by default, and nobody can quite tell whether it has side-effects?
10:10:24 remko has joined
10:10:59 Ge0rG Link Mauve: do you have stats on how many servers have bidi enabled?
10:11:19 Link Mauve Ge0rG, from linkmauve.fr I see 19, out of 177+181 open s2s.
10:11:31 Link Mauve I’m not sure in which direction these 19 count.
10:11:33 Ge0rG so it's ~10%
10:11:53 winfried has left
10:11:54 winfried has joined
10:12:00 Ge0rG Maybe it's working perfectly, or maybe it's got a can of worms of its own.
10:12:04 Link Mauve On JabberFR I see 27, out of 1122+1112 s2s.
10:12:19 Ge0rG But now I will have another corner-case to consider when debugging s2s issues.
10:12:35 Kev Getting bidi right turns out to be not as straightforward as one might think.
10:13:17 Ge0rG I'm enabling mod_bidi now. Let's wait and see.
10:16:30 Link Mauve Tell me when you’re done.
10:17:07 Ge0rG Link Mauve: done.
10:17:35 Link Mauve I don’t see a bidi s2s being established.
10:17:49 Link Mauve Even after closing the connection and letting it be reestablished.
10:18:55 Ge0rG apparently, mod_bidi didn't get loaded on the MUC domain.
10:19:03 Link Mauve Oh, that’d be the reason why.
10:19:26 Ge0rG Link Mauve: try again
10:19:51 Link Mauve Yay, perfect. :)
10:19:57 Link Mauve It also establishes much faster.
10:20:04 Link Mauve About 1s vs. 4s.
10:20:25 Ge0rG mod_admin_telnet won't show it as bidi, though.
10:20:26 Ge0rG Sigh.
10:20:35 Link Mauve It doesn’t here either, weird.
10:21:09 Ge0rG Link Mauve: would you pull a number please?
10:21:23 Link Mauve I was already at it. :)
10:21:34 Ge0rG Link Mauve: 👍
10:25:21 dele2 has left
10:26:13 Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://issues.prosody.im/1403
10:26:54 Ge0rG Yay. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5646 only defines "-" as a delimiter, not "_"
10:27:52 lumi has joined
10:30:22 murabito has left
10:30:32 murabito has joined
10:33:27 remko has left
10:34:25 ralphm Ah, XPG vs IETF.
10:34:36 Ge0rG Also Java.
10:35:43 ralphm I think Java supports both.
10:36:13 Ge0rG yeah, apparently what I need to call is `Locale.toLanguageTag()`
10:44:45 eve has left
10:44:48 eve has joined
10:52:45 lumi has left
11:12:33 Nekit has joined
11:14:46 eve has left
11:14:52 eve has joined
11:16:39 eve has left
11:16:46 eve has joined
11:20:59 eve has left
11:21:06 eve has joined
11:21:53 eve has left
11:22:00 eve has joined
11:29:19 Chobbes has joined
11:41:27 adityaborikar has left
11:41:29 adityaborikar has joined
11:44:24 remko has joined
11:46:48 lumi has joined
11:48:54 eve has left
11:49:00 eve has joined
11:56:45 adityaborikar has left
11:56:47 adityaborikar has joined
11:59:14 lnj has joined
12:06:38 remko has left
12:16:23 pep. Link Mauve, Ge0rG: mod_bidi should show in the admin console? I think I added that
12:16:41 Ge0rG pep.: nope. | <- linkmauve.fr [s2sin563bd6fc3640] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6)
12:16:47 Ge0rG at least not in 0.11
12:17:07 pep. Right, If it is it will be in trunk
12:17:14 pep. Who cares about releases :p
12:17:29 Ge0rG 🤷
12:17:40 pep. Though Link Mauve would be using trunk
12:18:35 Ge0rG so if he can't see it, and I can't see it, it must be broken
12:22:08 lumi has left
12:22:33 Link Mauve pep., maybe a too old trunk.
12:22:50 Ge0rG mod_bidi Updated: 5 years ago
12:23:24 Link Mauve | jabberfr.org | <- yax.im [s2sin55c473563c00] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6) (bidi)
12:23:28 Link Mauve That’s on JabberFR.
12:23:33 Link Mauve So maybe it’s already fixed.
12:23:49 Ge0rG are there two mod_bidi's?
12:23:56 Link Mauve NAFAIK.
12:23:57 pep. No
12:24:10 pep. The fix is in the telnet console
12:24:45 Ge0rG is there a telnet console in prosody-modules?
12:24:59 Ge0rG ,oO( Hope dies last. But it dies. )
12:26:04 pep. What, no
12:26:13 pep. It's in core?
12:39:28 Link Mauve hg is so slow on my server…
12:39:47 Link Mauve Just spawning the python2 process takes like ten seconds.
12:40:02 Link Mauve added 246 changesets with 270 changes to 79 files
12:40:18 jonas’ RIIR in 3... 2... 1...
12:40:31 Link Mauve Nope, still not fixed.
12:40:40 Link Mauve jonas’, I wish they’d get at it faster. :(
12:41:08 Link Mauve https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/OxidationPlan
12:41:27 jonas’ speaking of rust, my hand mixer’s mixing things are rusty :(
12:41:36 jonas’ and here people wonder why I don’t like rust!!k
12:42:45 Chobbes has left
12:44:30 adityaborikar has left
12:44:32 adityaborikar has joined
12:47:59 moparisthebest has left
12:48:23 moparisthebest has joined
13:02:13 pep. "Buster (Debian 10): Rust 1.28 (https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/rustc)", same for RHEL :((
13:06:59 pdurbin has left
13:07:15 Link Mauve xDDD
13:07:43 Link Mauve Maybe in two years they’ll be able to run today’s xmpp-rs.
13:08:39 Zash What's that, being upset that it doesn't have the latest bleeding edge Rust?
13:08:48 Zash It also desn't have the latest bleeding edge Go
13:09:43 jonas’ this is not programming@ by the way
13:10:52 pep. Zash, the latest stable is 1.36 :)
13:11:01 pep. jonas’, I'll stop here, I was just reacting to the above :P
13:14:13 Link Mauve jonas’, oops, sorry.
13:18:24 adityaborikar has left
13:18:52 adityaborikar has joined
13:26:29 lumi has joined
13:26:35 Chobbes has joined
13:26:53 Chobbes has left
13:26:53 Chobbes has joined
13:31:13 igoose has left
13:31:15 igoose has joined
13:39:51 curen has joined
13:45:45 Link Mauve pep., testing suggests you display (bidi) for incoming s2s, but not for outgoing.
13:48:23 pep. Put that in the issue I guess
13:50:29 Link Mauve It’s already there.
13:51:20 Ge0rG gives Link Mauve an XMPP badge ✎
13:51:29 Ge0rG awards Link Mauve an XMPP badge ✏
13:52:24 pep. In the meantime you're not allowed to initiate bidi, you must only accept it :P
13:52:32 pep. So that it gets displayed
13:53:56 adityaborikar has left
13:54:02 Steve Kille has joined
13:54:19 adityaborikar has joined
13:54:41 lumi has left
13:55:05 lumi has joined
13:55:09 Steve Kille has left
14:02:32 Chobbes has left
14:02:33 Chobbes has joined
14:16:01 afrogeek has left
14:16:03 afrogeek has joined
14:25:31 remko has joined
14:41:36 remko has left
14:45:13 digu has joined
14:45:13 Nekit has left
14:45:23 digu dffdd
14:46:03 Mikaela has left
14:46:25 stpeter has joined
14:46:29 digu has left
14:46:41 peter has joined
14:47:28 Lance has left
14:53:14 Mikaela has joined
14:54:23 ralphm Indeed
14:56:36 pdurbin has joined
15:02:58 sonny has joined
15:07:13 david has left
15:11:58 pdurbin has left
15:15:05 david has joined
15:23:07 Lance has joined
15:25:36 adityaborikar has left
15:26:02 adityaborikar has joined
15:29:43 eevvoor has joined
15:53:07 sezuan has left
15:53:14 krauq has left
16:09:02 wojtek has joined
16:16:44 andrey.g has left
16:22:33 krauq has joined
16:29:24 edhelas has left
16:37:06 jonas’ PSA: I got my MUA fixed apparently and I’ll take care of the editor backlog tomorrow afternoon or tonight.
16:37:15 Ge0rG 👍
16:38:53 edhelas has joined
16:42:15 patrick has joined
16:45:02 sonny has left
16:50:10 adityaborikar has left
16:50:14 adityaborikar has joined
17:09:31 adityaborikar has left
17:10:47 alameyo has left
17:10:47 alameyo has joined
17:16:02 adityaborikar has joined
17:16:52 eve has left
17:16:57 eve has joined
17:32:30 COM8 has joined
17:36:56 adityaborikar has left
17:40:20 eve has left
17:40:26 eve has joined
17:40:30 COM8 has left
17:49:38 alameyo has left
17:49:38 alameyo has joined
17:57:53 alameyo has left
18:02:23 COM8 has joined
18:03:49 Chobbes has left
18:04:06 COM8 has left
18:08:43 edhelas small question regarding https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent, when doing a max_items requests, the order should be most recent on top ?
18:19:55 Lance in the example, it is newest at end of list
18:21:47 lskdjf has left
18:23:03 debacle has left
18:23:06 Yagiza has left
18:25:49 edhelas to me it's an issue
18:26:04 edhelas as a client I don't want to retrieve all the node items with their payloads (for performance purposes)
18:26:08 Lance i can't find any text mandating a particular result ordering. but everything is shown as always oldest to newest
18:26:45 edhelas so I retrieve only the item ids, then check which items are missing and then retrieve independently the items that I need
18:27:08 Lance where max_items will just give you the page of results at the very end in that sort order
18:27:47 edhelas yes but this order is not specified anywhere
18:28:00 edhelas ejabberd actually returns the list the other way around
18:28:17 Lance ahh, then yeah. this is a gap in spec
18:30:08 lskdjf has joined
18:34:54 winfried has left
18:36:02 DebXWoody has left
18:39:22 alameyo has joined
18:42:24 waqas has joined
18:43:09 DebXWoody has joined
18:43:49 rion has left
18:43:52 rion has joined
18:51:08 remko has joined
19:00:31 andrey.g has joined
19:06:12 andrey.g has left
19:11:25 lovetox has joined
19:12:43 Lance has left
19:21:36 alameyo has left
19:21:36 alameyo has joined
19:21:53 alameyo has left
19:25:01 stpeter has left
19:25:30 peter has left
19:28:06 andrey.g has joined
19:28:32 remko has left
19:31:07 eevvoor has left
19:36:22 Nekit has joined
19:43:58 alameyo has joined
19:48:32 balu_der_baer has joined
19:54:57 balu_der_baer has left
19:55:10 balu_der_baer has joined
20:14:13 sonny has joined
20:18:25 alameyo has left
20:18:25 alameyo has joined
20:18:53 alameyo has left
20:32:06 remko has joined
20:38:48 eevvoor has joined
20:39:11 eevvoor has left
20:45:24 alameyo has joined
20:48:30 remko has left
20:52:14 balu_der_baer has left
20:57:05 Lance has joined
21:04:26 Douglas Terabyte has left
21:06:06 stpeter has joined
21:06:19 debacle has joined
21:06:29 peter has joined
21:10:24 Douglas Terabyte has joined
21:10:33 curen has left
21:13:07 andy has left
21:17:10 eve has left
21:17:25 waqas has left
21:17:47 eve has joined
21:18:17 winfried has joined
21:18:25 valo has left
21:18:36 valo has joined
21:39:35 david has left
21:39:39 david has joined
21:47:14 andrey.g has left
22:21:44 lnj has left
22:23:48 sonny has left
22:32:22 lumi has left
22:33:24 zach has left
22:33:27 zach has joined
22:34:15 lumi has joined
22:40:11 karoshi has left
22:48:55 Chobbes has joined
22:58:47 sonny has joined
22:59:57 murabito has left
23:00:00 murabito has joined
23:18:38 Nekit has left
23:23:04 intosi has left
23:23:04 intosi has joined
23:27:11 Mikaela has left
23:38:54 Lance has left
23:45:32 neshtaxmpp has left
23:55:51 vanitasvitae has left
23:55:52 vanitasvitae has joined