XSF Discussion - 2019-07-29

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08:51:01 Guus Dave, I got your one on one, but my reply isn't being delivered.
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08:57:49 Ge0rG This is an accurate depiction of why matrix wins over XMPP.
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09:23:03 Guus Yes, this is bad, although I've never experienced it with anyone else than Dave
09:23:35 Guus Which I suspect is running non-production code
09:24:46 jonas’ non-production s2s code
09:25:16 Guus I'm guessing he's running s2s through Metre
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09:53:56 ralphm 👍
09:55:00 Ge0rG I've experienced asymmetric s2s with other people than Dave.
10:01:00 ralphm I'm sure Matrix is bug free. Let's just quit.
10:03:36 Ge0rG Yes. Or let's maybe fix the reliability issues that we are mostly ignoring for two decades now.
10:04:40 fippo we did s2s interop testing... a decade ago
10:05:47 ralphm I've seen various proposals being discussed, here, on list, and at summits, but there's a whole lot of whataboutism and stuff, and not a lot of just experimenting. Dave's Metre is at least an attempt to figure out all the weird corners.
10:05:47 Ge0rG fippo: this is not about protocol-level interop, but about network connectivity corner cases, or connections being stuck going unnoticed
10:06:36 Ge0rG Things like the periodic pinger module of some widely-used server implementation which will _ping_ the other server, but won't act in any way on a timeout.
10:06:38 ralphm I'm also not talking just about s2s, but good examples are MIX and SASL2.
10:07:33 Link Mauve Ge0rG, there are still very few servers which support bidi, yours doesn’t for instance.
10:07:44 Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-asymetric s2s.
10:07:54 Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-assymetric s2s.
10:08:14 Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-asymmetric s2s.
10:08:22 Link Mauve (Words are hard.)
10:08:30 fippo ge0rg: true, we just tested the basics. and bidi is an attempt to solve some of those issues
10:09:40 Ge0rG Link Mauve: maybe because mod_bidi is a community module that's not enabled by default, and nobody can quite tell whether it has side-effects?
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10:10:59 Ge0rG Link Mauve: do you have stats on how many servers have bidi enabled?
10:11:19 Link Mauve Ge0rG, from linkmauve.fr I see 19, out of 177+181 open s2s.
10:11:31 Link Mauve I’m not sure in which direction these 19 count.
10:11:33 Ge0rG so it's ~10%
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10:12:00 Ge0rG Maybe it's working perfectly, or maybe it's got a can of worms of its own.
10:12:04 Link Mauve On JabberFR I see 27, out of 1122+1112 s2s.
10:12:19 Ge0rG But now I will have another corner-case to consider when debugging s2s issues.
10:12:35 Kev Getting bidi right turns out to be not as straightforward as one might think.
10:13:17 Ge0rG I'm enabling mod_bidi now. Let's wait and see.
10:16:30 Link Mauve Tell me when you’re done.
10:17:07 Ge0rG Link Mauve: done.
10:17:35 Link Mauve I don’t see a bidi s2s being established.
10:17:49 Link Mauve Even after closing the connection and letting it be reestablished.
10:18:55 Ge0rG apparently, mod_bidi didn't get loaded on the MUC domain.
10:19:03 Link Mauve Oh, that’d be the reason why.
10:19:26 Ge0rG Link Mauve: try again
10:19:51 Link Mauve Yay, perfect. :)
10:19:57 Link Mauve It also establishes much faster.
10:20:04 Link Mauve About 1s vs. 4s.
10:20:25 Ge0rG mod_admin_telnet won't show it as bidi, though.
10:20:26 Ge0rG Sigh.
10:20:35 Link Mauve It doesn’t here either, weird.
10:21:09 Ge0rG Link Mauve: would you pull a number please?
10:21:23 Link Mauve I was already at it. :)
10:21:34 Ge0rG Link Mauve: 👍
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10:26:13 Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://issues.prosody.im/1403
10:26:54 Ge0rG Yay. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5646 only defines "-" as a delimiter, not "_"
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10:34:25 ralphm Ah, XPG vs IETF.
10:34:36 Ge0rG Also Java.
10:35:43 ralphm I think Java supports both.
10:36:13 Ge0rG yeah, apparently what I need to call is `Locale.toLanguageTag()`
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12:16:23 pep. Link Mauve, Ge0rG: mod_bidi should show in the admin console? I think I added that
12:16:41 Ge0rG pep.: nope. | <- linkmauve.fr [s2sin563bd6fc3640] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6)
12:16:47 Ge0rG at least not in 0.11
12:17:07 pep. Right, If it is it will be in trunk
12:17:14 pep. Who cares about releases :p
12:17:29 Ge0rG 🤷
12:17:40 pep. Though Link Mauve would be using trunk
12:18:35 Ge0rG so if he can't see it, and I can't see it, it must be broken
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12:22:33 Link Mauve pep., maybe a too old trunk.
12:22:50 Ge0rG mod_bidi Updated: 5 years ago
12:23:24 Link Mauve | jabberfr.org | <- yax.im [s2sin55c473563c00] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6) (bidi)
12:23:28 Link Mauve That’s on JabberFR.
12:23:33 Link Mauve So maybe it’s already fixed.
12:23:49 Ge0rG are there two mod_bidi's?
12:23:56 Link Mauve NAFAIK.
12:23:57 pep. No
12:24:10 pep. The fix is in the telnet console
12:24:45 Ge0rG is there a telnet console in prosody-modules?
12:24:59 Ge0rG ,oO( Hope dies last. But it dies. )
12:26:04 pep. What, no
12:26:13 pep. It's in core?
12:39:28 Link Mauve hg is so slow on my server…
12:39:47 Link Mauve Just spawning the python2 process takes like ten seconds.
12:40:02 Link Mauve added 246 changesets with 270 changes to 79 files
12:40:18 jonas’ RIIR in 3... 2... 1...
12:40:31 Link Mauve Nope, still not fixed.
12:40:40 Link Mauve jonas’, I wish they’d get at it faster. :(
12:41:08 Link Mauve https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/OxidationPlan
12:41:27 jonas’ speaking of rust, my hand mixer’s mixing things are rusty :(
12:41:36 jonas’ and here people wonder why I don’t like rust!!k
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13:02:13 pep. "Buster (Debian 10): Rust 1.28 (https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/rustc)", same for RHEL :((
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13:07:15 Link Mauve xDDD
13:07:43 Link Mauve Maybe in two years they’ll be able to run today’s xmpp-rs.
13:08:39 Zash What's that, being upset that it doesn't have the latest bleeding edge Rust?
13:08:48 Zash It also desn't have the latest bleeding edge Go
13:09:43 jonas’ this is not programming@ by the way
13:10:52 pep. Zash, the latest stable is 1.36 :)
13:11:01 pep. jonas’, I'll stop here, I was just reacting to the above :P
13:14:13 Link Mauve jonas’, oops, sorry.
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13:45:45 Link Mauve pep., testing suggests you display (bidi) for incoming s2s, but not for outgoing.
13:48:23 pep. Put that in the issue I guess
13:50:29 Link Mauve It’s already there.
13:51:20 Ge0rG gives Link Mauve an XMPP badge
13:51:29 Ge0rG awards Link Mauve an XMPP badge
13:52:24 pep. In the meantime you're not allowed to initiate bidi, you must only accept it :P
13:52:32 pep. So that it gets displayed
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14:54:23 ralphm Indeed
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16:37:06 jonas’ PSA: I got my MUA fixed apparently and I’ll take care of the editor backlog tomorrow afternoon or tonight.
16:37:15 Ge0rG 👍
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18:08:43 edhelas small question regarding https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent, when doing a max_items requests, the order should be most recent on top ?
18:19:55 Lance in the example, it is newest at end of list
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18:25:49 edhelas to me it's an issue
18:26:04 edhelas as a client I don't want to retrieve all the node items with their payloads (for performance purposes)
18:26:08 Lance i can't find any text mandating a particular result ordering. but everything is shown as always oldest to newest
18:26:45 edhelas so I retrieve only the item ids, then check which items are missing and then retrieve independently the items that I need
18:27:08 Lance where max_items will just give you the page of results at the very end in that sort order
18:27:47 edhelas yes but this order is not specified anywhere
18:28:00 edhelas ejabberd actually returns the list the other way around
18:28:17 Lance ahh, then yeah. this is a gap in spec
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