-
Guus
Dave, I got your one on one, but my reply isn't being delivered.
-
Ge0rG
This is an accurate depiction of why matrix wins over XMPP.
-
Guus
Yes, this is bad, although I've never experienced it with anyone else than Dave
-
Guus
Which I suspect is running non-production code
-
jonas’
non-production s2s code
-
Guus
I'm guessing he's running s2s through Metre
-
ralphm
👍
-
Ge0rG
I've experienced asymmetric s2s with other people than Dave.
-
ralphm
I'm sure Matrix is bug free. Let's just quit.
-
Ge0rG
Yes. Or let's maybe fix the reliability issues that we are mostly ignoring for two decades now.
-
fippo
we did s2s interop testing... a decade ago
-
ralphm
I've seen various proposals being discussed, here, on list, and at summits, but there's a whole lot of whataboutism and stuff, and not a lot of just experimenting. Dave's Metre is at least an attempt to figure out all the weird corners.
-
Ge0rG
fippo: this is not about protocol-level interop, but about network connectivity corner cases, or connections being stuck going unnoticed
-
Ge0rG
Things like the periodic pinger module of some widely-used server implementation which will _ping_ the other server, but won't act in any way on a timeout.
-
ralphm
I'm also not talking just about s2s, but good examples are MIX and SASL2.
-
Link Mauve
Ge0rG, there are still very few servers which support bidi, yours doesn’t for instance.
-
Link Mauve
It’s the first step towards no-asymetric s2s.✎ - Link Mauve
-
Link Mauve
It’s the first step towards no-asymmetric s2s. ✏
-
Link Mauve
(Words are hard.)
-
fippo
ge0rg: true, we just tested the basics. and bidi is an attempt to solve some of those issues
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: maybe because mod_bidi is a community module that's not enabled by default, and nobody can quite tell whether it has side-effects?
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: do you have stats on how many servers have bidi enabled?
-
Link Mauve
Ge0rG, from linkmauve.fr I see 19, out of 177+181 open s2s.
-
Link Mauve
I’m not sure in which direction these 19 count.
-
Ge0rG
so it's ~10%
-
Ge0rG
Maybe it's working perfectly, or maybe it's got a can of worms of its own.
-
Link Mauve
On JabberFR I see 27, out of 1122+1112 s2s.
-
Ge0rG
But now I will have another corner-case to consider when debugging s2s issues.
-
Kev
Getting bidi right turns out to be not as straightforward as one might think.
-
Ge0rG
I'm enabling mod_bidi now. Let's wait and see.
-
Link Mauve
Tell me when you’re done.
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: done.
-
Link Mauve
I don’t see a bidi s2s being established.
-
Link Mauve
Even after closing the connection and letting it be reestablished.
-
Ge0rG
apparently, mod_bidi didn't get loaded on the MUC domain.
-
Link Mauve
Oh, that’d be the reason why.
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: try again
-
Link Mauve
Yay, perfect. :)
-
Link Mauve
It also establishes much faster.
-
Link Mauve
About 1s vs. 4s.
-
Ge0rG
mod_admin_telnet won't show it as bidi, though.
-
Ge0rG
Sigh.
-
Link Mauve
It doesn’t here either, weird.
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: would you pull a number please?
-
Link Mauve
I was already at it. :)
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: 👍
-
Link Mauve
Ge0rG, https://issues.prosody.im/1403
-
Ge0rG
Yay. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5646 only defines "-" as a delimiter, not "_"
-
ralphm
Ah, XPG vs IETF.
-
Ge0rG
Also Java.
-
ralphm
I think Java supports both.
-
Ge0rG
yeah, apparently what I need to call is `Locale.toLanguageTag()`
-
pep.
Link Mauve, Ge0rG: mod_bidi should show in the admin console? I think I added that
-
Ge0rG
pep.: nope. | <- linkmauve.fr [s2sin563bd6fc3640] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6)
-
Ge0rG
at least not in 0.11
-
pep.
Right, If it is it will be in trunk
-
pep.
Who cares about releases :p
-
Ge0rG
🤷
-
pep.
Though Link Mauve would be using trunk
-
Ge0rG
so if he can't see it, and I can't see it, it must be broken
-
Link Mauve
pep., maybe a too old trunk.
-
Ge0rG
mod_bidi Updated: 5 years ago
-
Link Mauve
| jabberfr.org | <- yax.im [s2sin55c473563c00] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6) (bidi)
-
Link Mauve
That’s on JabberFR.
-
Link Mauve
So maybe it’s already fixed.
-
Ge0rG
are there two mod_bidi's?
-
Link Mauve
NAFAIK.
-
pep.
No
-
pep.
The fix is in the telnet console
-
Ge0rG
is there a telnet console in prosody-modules?
- Ge0rG ,oO( Hope dies last. But it dies. )
-
pep.
What, no
-
pep.
It's in core?
-
Link Mauve
hg is so slow on my server…
-
Link Mauve
Just spawning the python2 process takes like ten seconds.
-
Link Mauve
added 246 changesets with 270 changes to 79 files
-
jonas’
RIIR in 3... 2... 1...
-
Link Mauve
Nope, still not fixed.
-
Link Mauve
jonas’, I wish they’d get at it faster. :(
-
Link Mauve
https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/OxidationPlan
-
jonas’
speaking of rust, my hand mixer’s mixing things are rusty :(
-
jonas’
and here people wonder why I don’t like rust!!k
-
pep.
"Buster (Debian 10): Rust 1.28 (https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/rustc)", same for RHEL :((
-
Link Mauve
xDDD
-
Link Mauve
Maybe in two years they’ll be able to run today’s xmpp-rs.
-
Zash
What's that, being upset that it doesn't have the latest bleeding edge Rust?
-
Zash
It also desn't have the latest bleeding edge Go
-
jonas’
this is not programming@ by the way
-
pep.
Zash, the latest stable is 1.36 :)
-
pep.
jonas’, I'll stop here, I was just reacting to the above :P
-
Link Mauve
jonas’, oops, sorry.
-
Link Mauve
pep., testing suggests you display (bidi) for incoming s2s, but not for outgoing.
-
pep.
Put that in the issue I guess
-
Link Mauve
It’s already there.
- Ge0rG gives Link Mauve an XMPP badge
- Ge0rG awards Link Mauve an XMPP badge
-
pep.
In the meantime you're not allowed to initiate bidi, you must only accept it :P
-
pep.
So that it gets displayed
-
digu
dffdd
-
ralphm
Indeed
-
jonas’
PSA: I got my MUA fixed apparently and I’ll take care of the editor backlog tomorrow afternoon or tonight.
-
Ge0rG
👍
-
edhelas
small question regarding https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent, when doing a max_items requests, the order should be most recent on top ?
-
Lance
in the example, it is newest at end of list
-
edhelas
to me it's an issue
-
edhelas
as a client I don't want to retrieve all the node items with their payloads (for performance purposes)
-
Lance
i can't find any text mandating a particular result ordering. but everything is shown as always oldest to newest
-
edhelas
so I retrieve only the item ids, then check which items are missing and then retrieve independently the items that I need
-
Lance
where max_items will just give you the page of results at the very end in that sort order
-
edhelas
yes but this order is not specified anywhere
-
edhelas
ejabberd actually returns the list the other way around
-
Lance
ahh, then yeah. this is a gap in spec