XSF Discussion - 2019-07-29

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  68. Guus Dave, I got your one on one, but my reply isn't being delivered.
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  77. Ge0rG This is an accurate depiction of why matrix wins over XMPP.
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  82. Guus Yes, this is bad, although I've never experienced it with anyone else than Dave
  83. Guus Which I suspect is running non-production code
  84. jonas’ non-production s2s code
  85. Guus I'm guessing he's running s2s through Metre
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  89. ralphm 👍
  90. Ge0rG I've experienced asymmetric s2s with other people than Dave.
  91. ralphm I'm sure Matrix is bug free. Let's just quit.
  92. Ge0rG Yes. Or let's maybe fix the reliability issues that we are mostly ignoring for two decades now.
  93. fippo we did s2s interop testing... a decade ago
  94. ralphm I've seen various proposals being discussed, here, on list, and at summits, but there's a whole lot of whataboutism and stuff, and not a lot of just experimenting. Dave's Metre is at least an attempt to figure out all the weird corners.
  95. Ge0rG fippo: this is not about protocol-level interop, but about network connectivity corner cases, or connections being stuck going unnoticed
  96. Ge0rG Things like the periodic pinger module of some widely-used server implementation which will _ping_ the other server, but won't act in any way on a timeout.
  97. ralphm I'm also not talking just about s2s, but good examples are MIX and SASL2.
  98. Link Mauve Ge0rG, there are still very few servers which support bidi, yours doesn’t for instance.
  99. Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-asymetric s2s.
  100. Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-assymetric s2s.
  101. Link Mauve It’s the first step towards no-asymmetric s2s.
  102. Link Mauve (Words are hard.)
  103. fippo ge0rg: true, we just tested the basics. and bidi is an attempt to solve some of those issues
  104. Ge0rG Link Mauve: maybe because mod_bidi is a community module that's not enabled by default, and nobody can quite tell whether it has side-effects?
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  106. Ge0rG Link Mauve: do you have stats on how many servers have bidi enabled?
  107. Link Mauve Ge0rG, from linkmauve.fr I see 19, out of 177+181 open s2s.
  108. Link Mauve I’m not sure in which direction these 19 count.
  109. Ge0rG so it's ~10%
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  112. Ge0rG Maybe it's working perfectly, or maybe it's got a can of worms of its own.
  113. Link Mauve On JabberFR I see 27, out of 1122+1112 s2s.
  114. Ge0rG But now I will have another corner-case to consider when debugging s2s issues.
  115. Kev Getting bidi right turns out to be not as straightforward as one might think.
  116. Ge0rG I'm enabling mod_bidi now. Let's wait and see.
  117. Link Mauve Tell me when you’re done.
  118. Ge0rG Link Mauve: done.
  119. Link Mauve I don’t see a bidi s2s being established.
  120. Link Mauve Even after closing the connection and letting it be reestablished.
  121. Ge0rG apparently, mod_bidi didn't get loaded on the MUC domain.
  122. Link Mauve Oh, that’d be the reason why.
  123. Ge0rG Link Mauve: try again
  124. Link Mauve Yay, perfect. :)
  125. Link Mauve It also establishes much faster.
  126. Link Mauve About 1s vs. 4s.
  127. Ge0rG mod_admin_telnet won't show it as bidi, though.
  128. Ge0rG Sigh.
  129. Link Mauve It doesn’t here either, weird.
  130. Ge0rG Link Mauve: would you pull a number please?
  131. Link Mauve I was already at it. :)
  132. Ge0rG Link Mauve: 👍
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  134. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://issues.prosody.im/1403
  135. Ge0rG Yay. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5646 only defines "-" as a delimiter, not "_"
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  140. ralphm Ah, XPG vs IETF.
  141. Ge0rG Also Java.
  142. ralphm I think Java supports both.
  143. Ge0rG yeah, apparently what I need to call is `Locale.toLanguageTag()`
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  167. pep. Link Mauve, Ge0rG: mod_bidi should show in the admin console? I think I added that
  168. Ge0rG pep.: nope. | <- linkmauve.fr [s2sin563bd6fc3640] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6)
  169. Ge0rG at least not in 0.11
  170. pep. Right, If it is it will be in trunk
  171. pep. Who cares about releases :p
  172. Ge0rG 🤷
  173. pep. Though Link Mauve would be using trunk
  174. Ge0rG so if he can't see it, and I can't see it, it must be broken
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  176. Link Mauve pep., maybe a too old trunk.
  177. Ge0rG mod_bidi Updated: 5 years ago
  178. Link Mauve | jabberfr.org | <- yax.im [s2sin55c473563c00] (authenticated) (encrypted) (IPv6) (bidi)
  179. Link Mauve That’s on JabberFR.
  180. Link Mauve So maybe it’s already fixed.
  181. Ge0rG are there two mod_bidi's?
  182. Link Mauve NAFAIK.
  183. pep. No
  184. pep. The fix is in the telnet console
  185. Ge0rG is there a telnet console in prosody-modules?
  186. Ge0rG ,oO( Hope dies last. But it dies. )
  187. pep. What, no
  188. pep. It's in core?
  189. Link Mauve hg is so slow on my server…
  190. Link Mauve Just spawning the python2 process takes like ten seconds.
  191. Link Mauve added 246 changesets with 270 changes to 79 files
  192. jonas’ RIIR in 3... 2... 1...
  193. Link Mauve Nope, still not fixed.
  194. Link Mauve jonas’, I wish they’d get at it faster. :(
  195. Link Mauve https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/OxidationPlan
  196. jonas’ speaking of rust, my hand mixer’s mixing things are rusty :(
  197. jonas’ and here people wonder why I don’t like rust!!k
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  203. pep. "Buster (Debian 10): Rust 1.28 (https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/rustc)", same for RHEL :((
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  205. Link Mauve xDDD
  206. Link Mauve Maybe in two years they’ll be able to run today’s xmpp-rs.
  207. Zash What's that, being upset that it doesn't have the latest bleeding edge Rust?
  208. Zash It also desn't have the latest bleeding edge Go
  209. jonas’ this is not programming@ by the way
  210. pep. Zash, the latest stable is 1.36 :)
  211. pep. jonas’, I'll stop here, I was just reacting to the above :P
  212. Link Mauve jonas’, oops, sorry.
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  222. Link Mauve pep., testing suggests you display (bidi) for incoming s2s, but not for outgoing.
  223. pep. Put that in the issue I guess
  224. Link Mauve It’s already there.
  225. Ge0rG gives Link Mauve an XMPP badge
  226. Ge0rG awards Link Mauve an XMPP badge
  227. pep. In the meantime you're not allowed to initiate bidi, you must only accept it :P
  228. pep. So that it gets displayed
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  243. digu dffdd
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  266. jonas’ PSA: I got my MUA fixed apparently and I’ll take care of the editor backlog tomorrow afternoon or tonight.
  267. Ge0rG 👍
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  290. edhelas small question regarding https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent, when doing a max_items requests, the order should be most recent on top ?
  291. Lance in the example, it is newest at end of list
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  295. edhelas to me it's an issue
  296. edhelas as a client I don't want to retrieve all the node items with their payloads (for performance purposes)
  297. Lance i can't find any text mandating a particular result ordering. but everything is shown as always oldest to newest
  298. edhelas so I retrieve only the item ids, then check which items are missing and then retrieve independently the items that I need
  299. Lance where max_items will just give you the page of results at the very end in that sort order
  300. edhelas yes but this order is not specified anywhere
  301. edhelas ejabberd actually returns the list the other way around
  302. Lance ahh, then yeah. this is a gap in spec
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