XSF Discussion - 2019-07-31

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  73. jonas’ I lack context
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  82. Link Mauve jonas’, look up “420 blaze it”.
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  85. jonas’ do I want to at work?
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  88. Link Mauve For science.
  89. jonas’ I take that as a "heck no"
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  97. flow 420 implement it!
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  114. Ge0rG flow, Guus: could you reconfigure the ignite discourse to not auto-close threads after three months?
  115. Guus Ge0rG: would you mind asking for that in that discourse, for the relevant people to be involved?
  116. Guus Fwiw, I don't have a preference
  117. Ge0rG Guus: does it have a "meta" tag?
  118. Ge0rG I've only posted "smack" issues so far :
  119. Ge0rG :>
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  121. Ge0rG Guus: thanks, posted as https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/please-disable-auto-closing-of-threads-after-3-months/85765
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  125. LNJ Could someone regenerate the website, https://xmpp.org/extensions/ is outdated.
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  128. Ge0rG LNJ: it _should_ get auto-generated, with ~2 hours of delay, so probably something broke.
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  144. jubalh who is writing the xmpp newsletter thingy? :)
  145. pep. commteam@muc.xmpp.org
  146. pep. There's also a wiki page you can edit if you want things to appear in the next one
  147. jubalh yep thats my goal
  148. jubalh however if writing to the team also does the same. maybe I'll prefer this :)
  149. jubalh thansk pep. I see the wiki link in the topic of that channel
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  151. pep. They usually redirect you to the wiki because they can't remember everything people wanted to put in (which is fair enough) :)
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  153. jonas’ Ge0rG, the extension list is not coupled to the other generation process, it needs to be triggered manually
  154. jonas’ someone with power (Guus maybe?) needs to kick the docker build job
  155. Guus I just did.
  156. Guus xsf/xeps was last built 19 hours ago
  157. Guus seemed to have been successful
  158. Guus I just kicked off a new build manually.
  159. jonas’ Guus, maybe a race condition then
  160. jonas’ thanks
  161. Ge0rG ah!
  162. Guus There's a webhook on that dockerhub build that I don't recognize: https://api.hub.sotecware.net
  163. Guus ah, Google reveals a likely culprit 🙂
  164. Guus the webhook has been failing for months though.
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  167. jonas’ Guus, that’s me
  168. jonas’ the webhook is mine, and should be irrelevant
  169. jonas’ I wanted to set something up which could do things when new XEPs are published
  170. jonas’ but I didn’t get around to do it
  171. jonas’ (sotecware.net is my domain)
  172. Guus sure, no problem.
  173. Guus my browser gives a security warning on that URL btw
  174. Guus cert probably outdated or not matching the domain or something.
  175. jonas’ yeah
  176. jonas’ I didn’t bother with maintaining that domain after I didn’t bother to write code for it ;)
  177. Guus I'll not bother bothering then 🙂
  178. Ge0rG it used to be sotecware, but now it's abandonware
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  182. jonas’ :P
  183. Guus > someone with power (Guus maybe?) needs to kick the docker build job @jonas` FWIW, I think you have the power too.
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  186. Guus > someone with power (Guus maybe?) needs to kick the docker build job @jonas’ FWIW, I think you have the power too.
  187. jonas’ Guus, yes, but I don’t have my credentials on my work machine :)
  188. Guus hey, Converse is having trouble doing the mention.
  189. Guus ah, k.
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  192. edhelas in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#entity-discoveritems, where is the definition of the "jid" attributes of items
  193. Link Mauve edhelas, in XEP-0030, disco#items.
  194. edhelas fair enough
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  229. pep. The day disco+rsm is a thing, or featureX+rsm is a thing, if in the disco#info I get I see MAM, featureX, rsm, how do I know what I can do? Do we need a different NS per combination?
  230. Ge0rG Add sub elements to the feature element!
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  235. pep. Is there such cases currently where it can be confusing?
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  247. Kev Advertising RSM on its own doesn't really make any sense.
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  249. Kev RSM-for-Disco does, or RSM-for-MAM (which is really ust MAM, as MAM requires it).
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  251. Kev RSM-for-Disco does, or RSM-for-MAM (which is really ust MAM, as MAM requires it).
  252. Kev RSM-for-Disco does, or RSM-for-MAM (which is really just MAM, as MAM requires it).
  253. pep. I agree
  254. pep. Has this already been discussed somewhere? Something like Ge0rG said doesn't sound too bad :x
  255. Ge0rG RSM for president!
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  258. pep. There could also be order-by, 413 :)
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  260. flow Should a service even announce disco-with-rsm support? Wouldn't it be sufficient if the requesting entity would include i-can-do-disco-with-rsm flag into its disco request?
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  264. pep. So you'd include rsm when requesting, and then?
  265. flow if the server supports it and the result set is large enough he will make use of it
  266. flow (that assumes we have defined, together with the i-understand-disco-responses-with-rsm flag, the semantic how that should exactly look like)
  267. flow right now the only reason I can come up with why a disco responser should announce that he supports rsm is to track how widespread the support is
  268. pep. OK, that's fine for rsm, now say order-by+disco is a thing
  269. flow brrrr
  270. pep. I need to have guarantees that the result is ordered
  271. Ge0rG We are speaking of disco#items only, right?
  272. pep. Ge0rG: yeah
  273. flow I don't want to go down that road right now. I would be happy if we had a solution to page through large disco result sets, like if you have a loooooot of pubsub nodes, using RSM
  274. Ge0rG I'm actually looking for disco+search
  275. flow Ge0rG, well there is nothing that prevents disco#info result from becoming too large for a single stanza (whatever "too large" is)
  276. pep. Lots of pubsub nodes is already a thing, edhelas says with comments the disco results easily becomes bloated
  277. pep. Lots of pubsub nodes is already a thing, edhelas says with comments disco results easily become bloated
  278. pep. That's one reason why disco+rsm would be desirable
  279. Ge0rG flow: but how are you going to split a single #info?
  280. pep. What does the disco#items look like on conference.jabber.org?
  281. flow Ge0rG, cut in half? But yes, the issue is more pressing for disco#items
  282. flow that is why I would start with that and get some implementations experience
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  284. pep. Ge0rG: order-by might be something you want? You add a new condition "number of participants" for example :p
  285. flow Note that mongoose's muc light uses RSM with disco#item: https://mongooseim.readthedocs.io/en/latest/open-extensions/muc_light/
  286. flow but I am not sure if the way they describe it is the way I would do it
  287. Ge0rG pep.: disco#items doesn't even contain that number, so you end up doing disco#info on each individual node. Last time I did it from yaxim, it took two hours.
  288. pep. Ge0rG: have you read order-by?
  289. Ge0rG And the result wasn't really worth it
  290. pep. It would be too far-fetched to add that to disco#items
  291. Ge0rG Yeah, jonas’ just needs to XEPize the MUC search protocol.
  292. pep. And then you could do what you're asking for, (and with rsm)
  293. pep. I think it's doable with the more or less generic bricks we have
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  295. pep. I wouldn't create yet another xep
  296. Ge0rG pep.: I'm looking for a certain subset of all disco#info results embedded into the domain's disco#items
  297. pep. Sure
  298. pep. Create another condition for the order tag, by='number-of-participants' or sth, and let the server do the work, they already have all that info
  299. Ge0rG That was the easy step. The hard one is: deploy to jabber.org
  300. MattJ Don't underestimate the power of a moving glacier!
  301. Zash Even the earth itself can't handle the pressure!
  302. Link Mauve Let’s just wait for it to be done melting, I’ve heard heat waves are going strong lately.
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  304. Ge0rG Link Mauve: this year, Greenland will melt enough ice for a 0.68mm sea level rise.
  305. pep. so.. <feature var="urn:xmpp:order-by:0"><feature var="http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#items" /></feature> this would do it?
  306. pep. (Or rsm instead of order-by)
  307. pep. Ge0rG: you haven't heard the news, that's a Chinese hoax
  308. Ge0rG pep.: global warming?
  309. pep. Of course
  310. Ge0rG pep.: you swapped the namespaces. order-by is an option of disco#items, not vice versa
  311. pep. OK sure, I don't care which way as long as we talk the same :)
  312. Ge0rG It's not very elegant, and I'm not sure how far it's supported by anyone, but it's the most logical syntax
  313. Link Mauve It’s also not allowed by the schema, and will fail parsing in most parsers.
  314. pep. I find it elegant enough :/
  315. pep. Err
  316. flow hmm I don't like child elements in <feature/>
  317. flow partly due the reasons Link Mauve mentioned
  318. pep. What alternative is there?
  319. pep. Declare new NSs for these combinations?
  320. Link Mauve pep., for instance, a feature var='disco#info-with-order-by'.
  321. pep. Right :/
  322. Link Mauve It’s not a namespace, it’s a feature.
  323. pep. Yeah ok
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  329. Ge0rG Add a comma separated list into the var, because why would you use xml syntax for it?
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  331. edhelas JSON
  332. Ge0rG edhelas: thanks, I forgot.
  333. Ge0rG But then we rather should use DER.
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  344. jonas’ no that’d make zinid happy
  345. Zash CBOR is the future!
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  351. edhelas jonas’ because you know how to make zinid happy ? 🤔
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  354. jonas’ edhelas, he *does* like ASN.1
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