XSF Discussion - 2019-08-05

  1. UsL has left
  2. UsL has joined
  3. Tobias has left
  4. Tobias has joined
  5. sonny has joined
  6. zach has left
  7. zach has joined
  8. moparisthebest has left
  9. moparisthebest has joined
  10. LNJ has left
  11. LNJ has joined
  12. kokonoe has left
  13. kokonoe has joined
  14. jcbrand has left
  15. eevvoor has left
  16. lskdjf has left
  17. Lance has left
  18. xnamed has left
  19. pdurbin has joined
  20. pdurbin has left
  21. Nekit has left
  22. zach has left
  23. zach has joined
  24. Lance has joined
  25. sonny has left
  26. zach has left
  27. zach has joined
  28. arc has left
  29. arc has joined
  30. pdurbin has joined
  31. zach has left
  32. zach has joined
  33. Lance has left
  34. pdurbin has left
  35. Lance has joined
  36. zach has left
  37. zach has joined
  38. Lance has left
  39. adityaborikar has left
  40. adityaborikar has joined
  41. kokonoe has left
  42. kokonoe has joined
  43. kokonoe has left
  44. pdurbin has joined
  45. valo has left
  46. valo has joined
  47. zach has left
  48. zach has joined
  49. Yagiza has joined
  50. lovetox has joined
  51. kokonoe has joined
  52. kokonoe has left
  53. kokonoe has joined
  54. karoshi has joined
  55. zach has left
  56. zach has joined
  57. LNJ has left
  58. zach has left
  59. zach has joined
  60. LNJ has joined
  61. zach has left
  62. zach has joined
  63. jubalh has joined
  64. zach has left
  65. zach has joined
  66. larma has left
  67. larma has joined
  68. sezuan has joined
  69. andy has joined
  70. zach has left
  71. zach has joined
  72. jubalh has left
  73. Mikaela has joined
  74. jubalh has joined
  75. zach has left
  76. zach has joined
  77. jcbrand has joined
  78. rion Is there any description of transport negotiation for https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0338.html ?
  79. Nekit has joined
  80. Dele (Mobile) has joined
  81. rion I guess it's like 1) all content element in group MUST describe the same transport 2) an implementation should assume 1 and take any to start negotiating. 3) during transport negotiation it doesn't matter which content name in group is used for transport-info messages 4) after the transport is negotiated all the content in group is considered to be ready to transfer data.
  82. zach has left
  83. zach has joined
  84. goffi has joined
  85. andrey.g has left
  86. Mikaela has left
  87. intosi has joined
  88. Mikaela has joined
  89. intosi has left
  90. intosi has joined
  91. zach has left
  92. zach has joined
  93. waqas has left
  94. lskdjf has joined
  95. zach has left
  96. zach has joined
  97. lumi has joined
  98. winfried has left
  99. winfried has joined
  100. Yagiza has left
  101. Yagiza has joined
  102. Yagiza has left
  103. Yagiza has joined
  104. Yagiza has left
  105. debacle has joined
  106. Yagiza has joined
  107. zach has left
  108. zach has joined
  109. debacle has left
  110. adityaborikar has left
  111. adityaborikar has joined
  112. zach has left
  113. zach has joined
  114. andrey.g has joined
  115. jubalh has left
  116. jubalh has joined
  117. zach has left
  118. debacle has joined
  119. jubalh has left
  120. adityaborikar has left
  121. Dele (Mobile) has left
  122. lumi has left
  123. jubalh has joined
  124. lumi has joined
  125. eevvoor has joined
  126. Nekit has left
  127. igoose has left
  128. igoose has joined
  129. lumi has left
  130. lumi has joined
  131. adityaborikar has joined
  132. Dele (Mobile) has joined
  133. Dele (Mobile) has left
  134. pdurbin has left
  135. dele2 has joined
  136. adityaborikar has left
  137. adityaborikar has joined
  138. adityaborikar has left
  139. adityaborikar has joined
  140. Dele (Mobile) has joined
  141. dele2 has left
  142. Chobbes has joined
  143. intosi has left
  144. adityaborikar has left
  145. adityaborikar has joined
  146. matlag has left
  147. matlag has joined
  148. fippo https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120#section-4.7.3 -- do we have any good reference for the "random and non-repeating" requirement for the stream id? I'm fairly sure we didn't come up with it ourselves
  149. Ge0rG it sounds like uuid v4 or something
  150. intosi has joined
  151. fippo i recall "take the timestamp and add something random" in that context. but not sure from where. maybe dwd remembers?
  152. Ge0rG fippo: that sounds like uuid v1 and v2
  153. XSF has joined
  154. goffi has left
  155. Chobbes has left
  156. adityaborikar has left
  157. jubalh has left
  158. pdurbin has joined
  159. Dele (Mobile) has left
  160. jubalh has joined
  161. adityaborikar has joined
  162. pdurbin has left
  163. Douglas Terabyte has left
  164. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  165. adityaborikar has left
  166. Dele (Mobile) has joined
  167. Dele (Mobile) has left
  168. dele2 has joined
  169. Chobbes has joined
  170. eve has joined
  171. adityaborikar has joined
  172. kokonoe has left
  173. kokonoe has joined
  174. adityaborikar has left
  175. adityaborikar has joined
  176. waqas has joined
  177. Chobbes has left
  178. Chobbes has joined
  179. Chobbes has left
  180. Chobbes has joined
  181. Ge0rG marc_: ping. Do you have short-/mid-term plans to work on XEP-0401?
  182. Lance has joined
  183. goffi has joined
  184. APach has left
  185. APach has joined
  186. Wojtek has joined
  187. Wojtek has left
  188. sezuan has left
  189. eevvoor has left
  190. marc_ Ge0rG: I'm at a point where it would be nice to meet with other people to discuss how to integrate this feature for good UX
  191. jonas’ meet? like, in meatspace?
  192. Ge0rG marc_: then you should go to a Sprint.
  193. marc_ Also, if we should rely on PARS and so on
  194. Ge0rG marc_: I feel that the unfinished state of 0401 is distracting people from implementing it
  195. jonas’ s/distracting/detracting/?
  196. Ge0rG deterring.
  197. Ge0rG I have very strong opinions regarding PARS.
  198. marc_ Ge0rG: what opinion?
  199. jubalh has left
  200. patrick has joined
  201. Ge0rG marc_: PARS is a very good fit for the use case.
  202. marc_ Ge0rG: yes, for this kind of discussion "we" need to meet in person
  203. marc_ Ge0rG: why do you ask?
  204. eevvoor has joined
  205. Douglas Terabyte has left
  206. afrogeek has left
  207. jubalh has joined
  208. afrogeek has joined
  209. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  210. Ge0rG marc_: Are you coming to FrOSCon? That will be probably the only chance in the next months.
  211. jubalh has left
  212. Ge0rG marc_: other than that, email / xmpp should do it.
  213. Ge0rG marc_: and I'm asking because one day, The Editor will realize that it's actually Deferred by now.
  214. wurstsalat has left
  215. pep. Don't say it too loudly
  216. marc_ Ge0rG: I don't know when is FrosCon?
  217. jonas’ oh right, I forgot to run The Script
  218. pep. this weekend
  219. marc_ Then I'm not at Froscon 😄
  220. afrogeek has left
  221. Douglas Terabyte has left
  222. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  223. afrogeek has joined
  224. eevvoor has left
  225. eevvoor has joined
  226. Ge0rG marc_: I want to finally make 0401 usable, and integrate it in the next yaxim release.
  227. marc_ Ge0rG: do you know if somebody else is interested in this feature?
  228. Ge0rG marc_: Anu from Monal is interested in easier user onboarding, and I'm sure we'll find more non-stubborn people
  229. wurstsalat has joined
  230. adityaborikar has left
  231. Douglas Terabyte has left
  232. afrogeek has left
  233. curen has joined
  234. afrogeek has joined
  235. Douglas Terabyte has joined
  236. Yagiza has left
  237. COM8 has joined
  238. marc_ Ge0rG: what's your timeline?
  239. pep. I'd also like PARS tbh, but just IBR in poezio is a pain (in slix actually)
  240. COM8 has left
  241. kokonoe has left
  242. marc_ pep.: pars != ibr
  243. kokonoe has joined
  244. marc_ pep.: maybe I don't get what you want to say
  245. pep. marc_, yeah ok not 401, but IBR does count into onboarding
  246. pep. hmm, 401 does mention ibr
  247. rion has left
  248. patrick has left
  249. marc_ Yes, but pars is without ibr
  250. marc_ I would prefer 401 without pars at all
  251. pep. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html#redeem-no-account
  252. rion has joined
  253. COM8 has joined
  254. pep. Also https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0401.html#preauth-ibr
  255. marc_ pep.: 401 has ibr but pars doesn't
  256. pep. Ah sorry I was confused, PARS is not 401 indeed
  257. marc_ Or let me rephrase: I would like to have 401 with a single use-case without fallback, different UX and so on
  258. goffi has left
  259. adityaborikar has joined
  260. COM8 has left
  261. Ge0rG marc_: what are the UX inconsistencies you see currently?
  262. marc_ Ge0rG: different behaviour when the Server does not support 401 or ibr
  263. Ge0rG marc_: I'm very sure those can be hidden from the users, except obviously when a server supports neither, in which case you are lost.
  264. Nekit has joined
  265. pep. Is there a prosody module for all that btw?
  266. marc_ Ge0rG: no, you have to choose a server, create a regular account when ibr is not allowed
  267. marc_ You cannot hide this
  268. marc_ pep.: no, not for 401
  269. pep. marc_, the client can abstract some of it still. At least the choice of server can be really oriented
  270. marc_ pep.: how?
  271. rion has left
  272. rion has joined
  273. marc_ By using a default one?
  274. pep. Choosing one depending on $stuff, (user language, location, etc.?)
  275. Ge0rG marc_: have you seen the yaxim onboarding?
  276. Ge0rG marc_: are you saying that it's better to fail immediately than to provide graceful fallback?
  277. marc_ No, I would say "invite" is invitation on a server. Everthing else is adding a contact
  278. marc_ Then it is clear what will happen
  279. intosi has left
  280. Ge0rG marc_: but the user wants to get both in one step
  281. Ge0rG A user doesn't care what kind of tech magic is behind, they want a simple and fast onboarding
  282. adityaborikar has left
  283. marc_ Ge0rG: create account + mutual subscruption of couree
  284. sonny has joined
  285. Ge0rG marc_: I'm just saying that it makes very much sense to use the same PARS mechanism for the out of band invitation transmission
  286. marc_ Ge0rG: however, I would split add contact (with server pars) and account invite
  287. Ge0rG marc_: but why?
  288. marc_ But the UX changes if ibr is not supported
  289. marc_ And different UI for the same "invite" sucks
  290. marc_ Different UI because some tech stuff in the background sucks IMO
  291. marc_ Different UI because some tech stuff in the background is different sucks IMO
  292. Ge0rG marc_: what's different about the UI?
  293. marc_ (Not) able to create an account, as said before
  294. Ge0rG marc_: the difference is what comes behind the @ in the dialog.
  295. sonny has left
  296. adityaborikar has joined
  297. marc_ Yes, sometimes you have to choose a server
  298. Ge0rG You as the invitee should always be able to choose the server.
  299. Ge0rG And still send up with your friend added
  300. marc_ Yep, at least when you add a contact
  301. eevvoor has left
  302. Ge0rG No, always.
  303. marc_ But that's what needs to be discussed :)
  304. Ge0rG You don't need 0401 for manually adding friends
  305. marc_ Yep, you need it for account creation and server-side pars
  306. adityaborikar has left
  307. adityaborikar has joined
  308. Ge0rG marc_: that reads like we agree
  309. krauq has left
  310. larma has left
  311. larma has joined
  312. Ge0rG marc_: and I was asking because 0401 needs some text improvements, and I wanted to step up
  313. marc_ Ge0rG: I don't know if we agree but would be nice if you discuss 401 with other xmpp guys at froscon
  314. Nekit has left
  315. marc_ Ge0rG: I really would like to see some movement on 401
  316. marc_ I think At the end of this month I have time to work on it
  317. krauq has joined
  318. Ge0rG marc_: are there still text improvements to be made?
  319. adityaborikar has left
  320. marc_ Ge0rG: in 401? Of course, there are even some TODOs IiRC
  321. Ge0rG marc_: because that makes it hard to pitch it to developers
  322. marc_ You can not pitch it, just pitch the idea :D
  323. Ge0rG marc_: and they will ask for the XEP
  324. XSF has left
  325. Lance has left
  326. debacle has left
  327. marc_ XEP is not a big deal once all agree on the same user story / use case
  328. goffi has joined
  329. igoose has left
  330. goffi has left
  331. goffi has joined
  332. goffi has left
  333. goffi has joined
  334. igoose has joined
  335. APach has left
  336. APach has joined
  337. goffi has left
  338. marc_ Ge0rG: what's the timeline for the next yaxim release
  339. Lance has joined
  340. Ge0rG marc_: I have no idea, sorry.
  341. arc has left
  342. arc has joined
  343. Alex has left
  344. lumi has left
  345. dele2 has left
  346. neshtaxmpp has left
  347. neshtaxmpp has joined
  348. Wojtek has joined
  349. Wojtek has left
  350. debacle has joined
  351. Alex has joined
  352. jubalh has joined
  353. jubalh has left
  354. Dele (Mobile) has joined
  355. Chobbes has left
  356. marc_ Ge0rG: okay, sounded like you plan a release in the next few weeks :)
  357. Nekit has joined
  358. neshtaxmpp has left
  359. LNJ has left
  360. eevvoor has joined
  361. arc has left
  362. arc has joined
  363. Ge0rG marc_: no, but other developers do
  364. xnamed has joined
  365. wurstsalat has left
  366. edhelas has left
  367. edhelas has joined
  368. Mikaela has left
  369. waqas has left
  370. waqas has joined
  371. Guus has left
  372. Guus has joined
  373. pdurbin has joined
  374. neshtaxmpp has joined
  375. lovetox has left
  376. Dele (Mobile) has left
  377. pdurbin has left
  378. igoose has left
  379. igoose has joined
  380. andy has left
  381. igoose has left
  382. igoose has joined
  383. UsL has left
  384. debacle has left
  385. UsL has joined
  386. lumi has joined
  387. vanitasvitae has left
  388. vanitasvitae has joined