XSF Discussion - 2019-08-08

  1. Lance has left

  2. sonny has left

  3. lskdjf has joined

  4. lskdjf has left

  5. lskdjf has joined

  6. Steve Kille has left

  7. Zash has left

  8. lskdjf has left

  9. lskdjf has joined

  10. lskdjf has left

  11. lskdjf has joined

  12. lumi has left

  13. Lance has joined

  14. lskdjf has left

  15. Lance has left

  16. pdurbin has joined

  17. pdurbin has left

  18. neshtaxmpp has left

  19. neshtaxmpp has joined

  20. david has left

  21. david has joined

  22. waqas has joined

  23. Yagiza has joined

  24. pdurbin has joined

  25. pdurbin has left

  26. adityaborikar has joined

  27. andy has left

  28. xnamed has left

  29. moparisthebest has left

  30. moparisthebest has joined

  31. Nekit has joined

  32. waqas has left

  33. waqas has joined

  34. adityaborikar has left

  35. adityaborikar has joined

  36. LNJ has joined

  37. sezuan has joined

  38. pdurbin has joined

  39. Douglas Terabyte has left

  40. sezuan has left

  41. wurstsalat has joined

  42. adityaborikar has left

  43. Douglas Terabyte has joined

  44. jubalh has joined

  45. pdurbin has left

  46. sezuan has joined

  47. karoshi has joined

  48. pdurbin has joined

  49. jubalh has left

  50. kokonoe has left

  51. kokonoe has joined

  52. jonas’

    and set it to moderated

  53. jonas’

    someone with power must create the muc on muc.xmpp.org

  54. jonas’

    you can’t just join there and create it

  55. adityaborikar has joined

  56. Ge0rG

    One does not simply...

  57. moparisthebest has left

  58. moparisthebest has joined

  59. alameyo has left

  60. alameyo has joined

  61. adityaborikar has left

  62. adityaborikar has joined

  63. alameyo has left

  64. Steve Kille has joined

  65. alameyo has joined

  66. Mikaela has joined

  67. alameyo has left

  68. alameyo has joined

  69. Zash has joined

  70. pdurbin has left

  71. alameyo has left

  72. alameyo has joined

  73. kokonoe has left

  74. Steve Kille has left

  75. Steve Kille has joined

  76. pdurbin has joined

  77. igoose has left

  78. igoose has joined

  79. debacle has joined

  80. waqas has left

  81. Holger

    I once moved a room by setting it to moderated and sending invites to the new room on join. Plus a message explaining things.

  82. Holger

    (One of the very few Prosody modules I wrote.) :-)

  83. lovetox has joined

  84. alameyo has left

  85. alameyo has joined

  86. andy has joined

  87. eevvoor has joined

  88. eve has left

  89. lovetox

    So MattJ would you be so kind and use your power to create the MUC

  90. eve has joined

  91. kokonoe has joined

  92. debacle has left

  93. winfried has left

  94. Dele (Mobile) has joined

  95. Dele (Mobile) has left

  96. pdurbin has left

  97. jubalh has joined

  98. lumi has joined

  99. igoose has left

  100. igoose has joined

  101. dele2 has joined

  102. flow

    yes, please :)

  103. afrogeek has left

  104. afrogeek has joined

  105. ralphm

    I can create it

  106. jonas’

    yes please

  107. Ge0rG

    don't forget to give it a good name :)

  108. Zash


  109. Zash

    x is moar cool than j 🙂

  110. Holger

    .oO( Sounds like the beginning of a discussion that can easily take several weeks ... )

  111. jonas’


  112. ralphm

    I gave it a great name: jdev

  113. Seve

    xdev +1 :(

  114. Zash

    Why not both, jxdev!

  115. Zash

    or xjdev

  116. jonas’

    ... dev@ would do the trick too, it’s already on muc.xmpp.org

  117. ralphm

    This is not a democracy.

  118. Seve

    jonas’, true!

  119. jonas’

    I hereby call for a member meeting to remove ralphm from Board</joking>

  120. Holger

    I would've suggested dev/devel/development as well, but there might be some value in sticking to the same name as the jdev@ mailing list.

  121. Zash

    Historical Reasons™

  122. Kev

    Or just sentimental value.

  123. ralphm

    jonas’: there's this member election coming up, though, where I have to renew.

  124. jonas’

    consistency is nice

  125. ralphm

    Kev & jonas’: these.

  126. ralphm

    Also Zash

  127. Yagiza


  128. Yagiza

    About OMEMO implementation.

  129. Mikaela has left

  130. Yagiza

    When do I need to ask user if he trust the identity?

  131. Yagiza

    In save_identity or is_trusted_identity callback?

  132. Zash

    This sounds like a question for xmpp:jdev@muc.xmpp.org?join 🙂

  133. lovetox

    Yagiza, neither

  134. Nekit has left

  135. lovetox

    If signal asks is trusted, you return always true

  136. lovetox

    you have to implement your own trust management on top

  137. lovetox

    otherwise signal will not build sessions until user interacts with the client which would result in very bad UX

  138. pdurbin has joined

  139. Nekit has joined

  140. pdurbin has left

  141. pdurbin has joined

  142. Yagiza

    lovetox, so, I should always trust the identity, but notify user that identity cannot be trusted yet.

  143. Mikaela has joined

  144. lovetox

    depends on what you want to do

  145. lovetox

    What im saying is, you should circumvent signal trust management and always return True when signal lib asks you

  146. lovetox

    that does not mean you Trust anything though

  147. lovetox

    you have to add your own trust management on top of that

  148. lovetox

    could mean you trust on first contact, (blind trust), could mean you always want a user interaction before a message is sent ..

  149. lovetox

    whatever you think is in the security interests auf your users

  150. pdurbin has left

  151. adityaborikar has left

  152. adityaborikar has joined

  153. eve has left

  154. eve has joined

  155. Neustradamus has left

  156. lumi has left

  157. pdurbin has joined

  158. jubalh has left

  159. madhur.garg has joined

  160. adityaborikar has left

  161. adityaborikar has joined

  162. pdurbin has left

  163. georg has joined

  164. pdurbin has joined

  165. edhelas has left

  166. edhelas has joined

  167. rion has left

  168. rion has joined

  169. Nekit has left

  170. marc_ has left

  171. Nekit has joined

  172. debacle has joined

  173. lumi has joined

  174. Nekit has left

  175. Nekit has joined

  176. jubalh has joined

  177. jcbrand has left

  178. kokonoe has left

  179. adityaborikar has left

  180. adityaborikar has joined

  181. kokonoe has joined

  182. jcbrand has joined

  183. georg has left

  184. pdurbin has left

  185. eevvoor has left

  186. pdurbin has joined

  187. pdurbin has left

  188. pdurbin has joined

  189. neshtaxmpp has left

  190. pdurbin has left

  191. jubalh has left

  192. marc_ has joined

  193. neshtaxmpp has joined

  194. jubalh has joined

  195. neshtaxmpp has left

  196. neshtaxmpp has joined

  197. neshtaxmpp has left

  198. neshtaxmpp has joined

  199. jubalh has left

  200. madhur.garg has left

  201. sonny has joined

  202. alameyo has left

  203. alameyo has joined

  204. madhur.garg has joined

  205. nyco has joined

  206. adityaborikar has left

  207. adityaborikar has joined

  208. ralphm bangs gavel

  209. ralphm

    0. Welcome + Agenda

  210. ralphm

    Who do we have?

  211. nyco


  212. nyco

    and hi

  213. Seve


  214. nyco


  215. Guus


  216. ralphm

    MattJ: around?

  217. MattJ


  218. Seve

    Wow, nice

  219. ralphm


  220. ralphm

    1. Minute taker

  221. adityaborikar has left

  222. adityaborikar has joined

  223. nyco


  224. ralphm

    Thanks nyco

  225. ralphm

    2. Compliance badges

  226. nyco

    yep, so

  227. nyco

    the poll has run

  228. nyco

    I can pack it and deliver it

  229. ralphm

    What's the gist?

  230. nyco

    also I can share the form and sheet with board members

  231. nyco


  232. nyco

    we raised the question whether we wanted or not to enlarge the audience to standards@

  233. nyco

    so... 1. stop 2. more ?

  234. Chobbes has joined

  235. ralphm

    It depends, really. How many responses did you get and can we work with it?

  236. ralphm

    I'm not opposed to extending the audience

  237. Guus

    I think it's kind of silly to, after all these weeks and various discussions / emails, go back _again_ to asking for input.

  238. ralphm


  239. ralphm

    I prefer to take a decision.

  240. Guus

    We're trying to pick a nice image here - it's not a life/death decision. Let's try to come to a conclusion.

  241. nyco

    all right

  242. Seve

    Yes, we have been talking about this for a bit already

  243. nyco

    I'll send the results... to what list?

  244. nyco

    also, who wants to have it shared?

  245. MattJ

    Have there been any responses from people saying they would definitely use them? I confess I haven't been keeping up to date, but I mostly/only(?) read negative comments

  246. ralphm

    I'm ok with sharing a quantative summary, not individual comments.

  247. nyco

    these are anonymous

  248. nyco

    19 responses

  249. nyco

    ok, I'll send it to board@

  250. nyco

    next topic?

  251. ralphm


  252. ralphm

    nyco: what

  253. ralphm

    's the overal theme of the result?

  254. nyco

    our preferred badge

  255. nyco

    and predictions if it's gonna be used

  256. Nekit has left

  257. Nekit has joined

  258. ralphm

    You're not giving anything away, are you?

  259. lskdjf has joined

  260. nyco

    I gotta count

  261. ralphm


  262. ralphm

    Ok, moving on then.

  263. nyco

    spoiler warning: don't read what's next => opensourcedesign wins

  264. nyco

    spoiler warning: don't read what's next => people will use it

  265. ralphm


  266. nyco

    that's positive to very positive

  267. Seve


  268. ralphm

    Let's then discuss it finally next week.

  269. ralphm

    3. M-Sec

  270. ralphm

    This card has been on our agenda for a while

  271. adityaborikar has left

  272. adityaborikar has joined

  273. Guus

    If I recall correctly, this is the second email from the same project. I'm unsure if we handled the first one.

  274. ralphm

    I responded to their initial request, and they send a reply, but I haven't followed up since.

  275. Guus

    And did a second email / invitation then arrive again out of the blue?

  276. ralphm

    I think so

  277. Guus

    I remember thinking: "didn't they already reach out?"

  278. ralphm

    We got a response from Charlotte Tucker on May 17.

  279. ralphm

    Where they mentioned that they were primarily working on awareness, nothing in depth, yet

  280. Guus

    I found that response to be somewhat of a disappointment.

  281. Guus

    it didn't show any relation with XMPP, other than "you have a website and we'd like to use you to boost SEO"

  282. ralphm

    Yes, indeed.

  283. Seve

    I was not sure how we could create those 'synergies' between us

  284. Guus

    (this is from memory, I might be off a tad, but that was what my impression was)

  285. Guus

    If there's potential for XMPP usage / evangelism, I'm interested in pursuing furher (that was my thought to the initial email)

  286. ralphm

    Is this really a new e-mail? Because I haven't seen a repeat.

  287. Seve

    I didn't see anything related to XMPP last time. Do you know if they were using XMPP?

  288. Guus

    the second email made me question if it'd be in our interest to move further.

  289. ralphm

    Guus: for me? no

  290. Chobbes has left

  291. nyco

    to me it's disconnted

  292. ralphm

    It is the same text?

  293. Guus

    I'm unsure if there was really a new e-mail. Might be my email client acting up

  294. Guus

    in any case, this got me wondering: "We understand KEIO, our M-Sec partner (in CC), is already engaged with you."

  295. Guus

    I'd be interested in finding out what our relation with KEIO is.

  296. Seve

    Same here

  297. nyco


  298. ralphm

    Guus: I wrote this last time, so I think the answer is 'little':

  299. ralphm

    Thanks for reaching out to the XMPP Standards Foundation. The M-Sec Project seems like a great effort and looks interesting. I am aware that people at KEIO University have been involved with the XMPP community previously. E.g. around Efficient XML Interchange (EXI), internationalization of XMPP servers, as well as sensor networks over XMPP. Can you briefly go into how you think the XMPP Standards Foundation (or the XMPP community in general) could contribute to this project? Are you looking at using XMPP as a communication platform for chat (use case 2), sensor networks (use case 1), or the IoT use cases? Are you seeking guidance on the usage of protocols or libraries, or collaboration on defining new or improving existing XMPP Extension Protocols?

  300. Douglas Terabyte has left

  301. Seve

    Did we get a reply?

  302. ralphm


  303. ralphm

    At this initial stage (the first year of the project), we would be interested in a primary communications collaboration, in which we mutually cross-promote project activities and results (on social media, blogs, intermediary contacts, etc.). At this point, we are building up awareness of the project. We could spread your news in our communities and help you to continue being positioned as a thought-leader in this sphere. Do you currently use these platforms? - Social - Blog - Newsletter - Other platforms On our side, we are building social accounts, a blog and newsletter, as well as leveraging our partners' already well-established platforms. Then, we would be interested to discuss the ways to collaborate that you have mentioned in the coming months. We are working on defining the use cases and how they will be implemented in the smart cities of Santander and Fujisawa. Our partners in the M-Sec project would step into the conversation at this time.

  304. Guus

    ah, yes, this, apart from any lack of XMPP references, is what put me off from Charlotte's response: "Do you currently use these platforms?" To me, that's them putting in zero effort to finding out what we do. That does not bode well for future collaboration, in my view.

  305. ralphm

    I have not responded to that one, unfortunately, but I don't feel my questions were actually answered.

  306. Seve

    Ahh, right

  307. ralphm

    So until I see a different type of message, that doesn't sound like SEO, I think we do nothing.

  308. Guus

    In my view, we either do nothing, or give it one shot and express our concern that this looks like a buckshot attempt at SEO.

  309. ralphm

    If you really feel the latter is needed, I could

  310. Seve

    I'm fine with the collaboration on social media and such, but it looks like it is just that :/ Would have been great if they could reply to your response, ralphm. I would see it as beneficial for us if they use XMPP, otherwise makes no sense we continue with it

  311. Guus

    I don't think it's needed - but if there's a chance that this might turn out beneficial for the XSF / XMPP, we might want to give it one last shot.

  312. Guus

    but I'm equally happy with just dropping it.

  313. nyco

    if they want to google-bomb "m-sec", they'll have to fight against "meter per second"... good luck... a name change would be better :)

  314. adityaborikar has left

  315. ralphm


  316. adityaborikar has joined

  317. ralphm

    Ok, I'll think about it for a bit. Moving on.

  318. ralphm

    4. Roadmap

  319. ralphm

    I'm back from vacation and will do this before next meeting.

  320. ralphm

    5. AOB

  321. ralphm


  322. MattJ

    None here

  323. Guus

    Any updates from the German effort?

  324. Guus

    Ge0rG ?

  325. Guus

    I'd love for that to take form / shape, as I think it could benefit XMPP.

  326. Seve


  327. ralphm

    I think it hasn't been two months yet.

  328. ralphm

    I assume Ge0rG will ping us when there's news.

  329. Guus

    Sure, but if we can proactively support Alex and him, I'd love for us to be ready for that.

  330. ralphm

    Of course.

  331. jubalh has joined

  332. Ge0rG

    No news. Sorry.

  333. Guus

    but lets discuss that with him present.

  334. Guus


  335. ralphm

    Ge0rG: so mostly waiting for now?

  336. Ge0rG

    I'd still like to know from Board what we would expect from that collaboration.

  337. Ge0rG

    ralphm: indeed.

  338. Seve

    Something we should have ready, I have to say. Just for when the time comes

  339. ralphm

    We'll, I'm mostly interested in what kind of things they want to 'fix' and what kind of regulation would help achieve this.

  340. Ge0rG

    ralphm: I suppose the goal is to enforce federation between IM networks, while preserving E2EE and user security and privacy.

  341. ralphm

    I mean, of course I'd love the whole world to use XMPP for all messaging, as people use SMTP for e-mail, but that seems a bridge too far for now.

  342. Guus

    I'm not expecting specifics, but I'd love for a result a la XMPP becoming the standard to be used by inter-governmental-agency communications.

  343. ralphm

    Right. I'm not even sure if that stated goal is actually achievable.

  344. Ge0rG

    indeed, mandating open standards for government IM needs, or even for all IM systems, would essentially mean XMPP

  345. ralphm

    But even if it is, what kind of 'features' are included in there? Just plain-text messages? Groups? Media?

  346. Guus

    let that be part of the to-be-had discussion with them.

  347. Guus

    let's first see if they're interested in moving towards something like this.

  348. ralphm

    So yeah, I'd like to participate asking such questions.

  349. ralphm

    Ge0rG: does that help at all?

  350. Ge0rG

    ralphm: a bit indeed. However I'm not sure how we can arrange such a discussion.

  351. eevvoor has joined

  352. Ge0rG

    This won't work easily if I'm a proxy.

  353. Guus

    if not a mandated solution, then at the very least recognision that XMPP is a good way to solve privacy / security IM issues within certain fields might be a nice outcome.

  354. adityaborikar has left

  355. Ge0rG

    In that case, we(the XSF) should rather prepare a list of questions and a list of demands/requirements

  356. Ge0rG

    And I can bring that in

  357. adityaborikar has joined

  358. ralphm

    Ge0rG: after their response, I suppose?

  359. Guus

    Ge0rG - what are your own thoughts here?

  360. Guus

    as you've brought it up in the first place, you must have some sort of desired end-result?

  361. Ge0rG

    ralphm: I'd like to get one step ahead of them

  362. Ge0rG

    I also need to separate my own desires from the official XSF voice.

  363. Seve

    Which are?

  364. Guus

    sure, but maybe they overlap, at least partially 😃

  365. Ge0rG

    I'd like to have a law mandating that IM systems over a certain size must expose an API/federation mechanism based on open standards.

  366. ralphm

    Ge0rG: I feel anyone here can express their desires, and then we come up with a rough consensus.

  367. Ge0rG

    The representative was very interested in E2EE, and I fear OMEMO won't cut it.

  368. Ge0rG

    So maybe we need to have some kind of MLS based proposal

  369. ralphm

    Ge0rG: do you mean public services?

  370. ralphm

    Ge0rG: do business-oriented platforms like Slack count?

  371. Guus


  372. Kev

    Guus: Standardised E2E.

  373. Kev


  374. Ge0rG

    ralphm: that's an excellent question

  375. Seve

    Ge0rG, https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mls/about/

  376. Guus

    If there's interest in E2EE, and there's an observed lack of that in XMPP, then maybe an outcome could be grants to work on improving that.

  377. Seve

    it was for Guus and also late... :) Thanks Kev

  378. Ge0rG

    ralphm: I'd say that all commercial providers should have to do that.

  379. nyco

    has the gavel been banged?

  380. ralphm

    nyco: not yet

  381. Guus

    Ge0rG maybe we should start to create some sort of document to capture motives like these

  382. Ge0rG

    ralphm: there might be a set of useful objective criteria when to require support for federation

  383. MattJ

    Yeah, I have to prep for a meeting starting in 10

  384. winfried has joined

  385. Ge0rG

    Guus: did you say "wiki"?

  386. Guus

    maybe something less public

  387. Ge0rG

    Does that matter? Do we expect to get gamed by Facebook?

  388. Guus

    I'd hate to see ideas that we're not going to pitch in the end, find their way to people that we didn't want to pitch those ideas too.

  389. Ge0rG

    Guus: alright. Can you arrange for something?

  390. Seve

    Should we find the way to work on this via email instead (so we can free the Board members)

  391. Ge0rG

    Seve: some kind of etherpad maybe, communicated via email to Board + X(?)

  392. Guus

    something like that would work for me

  393. Guus

    People said they needed to go though.

  394. Guus

    maybe wrap this up?

  395. ralphm

    Sure, or just a mailing list might suffice.

  396. Ge0rG


  397. Daniel

    Some politicians in Germany seem eager to get some form of regulation going. So the question is not 'is regulation a good thing' but instead can we help them to at least make this less idiotic

  398. ralphm

    Wrapping up.

  399. Seve

    Ge0rG, yes

  400. ralphm

    6. Date of Next

  401. ralphm


  402. ralphm

    7. Close

  403. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  404. Guus

    Daniel +!

  405. ralphm bangs gavel

  406. nyco


  407. Seve

    Perfect, thank you guys :)

  408. Guus

    I'm unsure if I can make it next week.

  409. Guus

    Thanks guys!

  410. Daniel

    Also if they are going to regulate anyway I'd rather have them use xmpp than for example wire or matrix

  411. ralphm

    Daniel: understood. Elections coming up?

  412. Guus

    MattJ - could you arrange for a private mailing list for this to be set up, with your iteam hat on?

  413. Ge0rG

    I'd prefer an etherpad actually.

  414. Daniel

    ralphm: not really.

  415. Ge0rG

    We want to make a document after all

  416. nyco has sent the minutes

  417. Guus

    Ge0rG fine, etherpad it is - I've never created/used one of those though

  418. jubalh has left

  419. nyco has sent the results for the compliance badges poll

  420. jubalh has joined

  421. Nekit has left

  422. Nekit has joined

  423. lskdjf has left

  424. kokonoe has left

  425. kokonoe has joined

  426. Guus

    Thanks nyco - seems like a clear outcome to me.

  427. Guus

    let's discuss next week how to proceed. I'd love to quickly engage the author and see if he's interested in completing these designs.

  428. Ge0rG

    nyco: where did you send it to?

  429. Ge0rG

    Ah, to board@. What a pity.

  430. Nekit has left

  431. Nekit has joined

  432. eevvoor has left

  433. winfried has left

  434. adityaborikar has left

  435. adityaborikar has joined

  436. jubalh has left

  437. eevvoor has joined

  438. adityaborikar has left

  439. adityaborikar has joined

  440. sonny has left

  441. adityaborikar has left

  442. adityaborikar has joined

  443. pdurbin has joined

  444. eevvoor has left

  445. pdurbin has left

  446. winfried has joined

  447. adityaborikar has left

  448. sezuan has left

  449. xnamed has joined

  450. adityaborikar has joined

  451. Nekit has left

  452. Nekit has joined

  453. alameyo has left

  454. alameyo has joined

  455. alameyo has left

  456. adityaborikar has left

  457. alameyo has joined

  458. rion has left

  459. rion has joined

  460. curen has joined

  461. Lance has joined

  462. tijanjaOfficial has joined

  463. tijanjaOfficial has left

  464. alameyo has left

  465. alameyo has joined

  466. alameyo has left

  467. eevvoor has joined

  468. UsL has joined

  469. adityaborikar has joined

  470. Steve Kille has left

  471. patrick has joined

  472. mr.fister has joined

  473. derdaniel has joined

  474. jubalh has joined

  475. alameyo has joined

  476. Steve Kille has joined

  477. karoshi has left

  478. alameyo has left

  479. alameyo has joined

  480. igoose has left

  481. igoose has joined

  482. alameyo has left

  483. wojtek has joined

  484. alameyo has joined

  485. wojtek has left

  486. xnamed has left

  487. xnamed has joined

  488. murabito has joined

  489. waqas has joined

  490. waqas has left

  491. alameyo has left

  492. alameyo has joined

  493. jubalh has left

  494. waqas has joined

  495. pdurbin has joined

  496. alameyo has left

  497. curen has left

  498. alameyo has joined

  499. pdurbin has left

  500. eevvoor has left

  501. alameyo has left

  502. alameyo has joined

  503. karoshi has joined

  504. COM8 has joined

  505. COM8 has left

  506. COM8 has joined

  507. COM8 has left

  508. COM8 has joined

  509. COM8 has left

  510. alameyo has left

  511. alameyo has joined

  512. rion has left

  513. rion has joined

  514. eevvoor has joined

  515. vanitasvitae has left

  516. vanitasvitae has joined

  517. adityaborikar has left

  518. adityaborikar has joined

  519. Lance has left

  520. Guus

    jonas’ would you mind trying to crawl igniterealtime.org again? DH key size should be better now.

  521. eevvoor has left

  522. Lance has joined

  523. mr.fister has left

  524. debacle has left

  525. eevvoor has joined

  526. Lance has left

  527. jonas’

    Guus, it runs into a timeout now, it appears my prosody isn’t getting a reply after it sent the stream header after STARTTLS

  528. Lance has joined

  529. Guus

    jonas’: that's odd. I've retreated away from the laptop, will investigate later

  530. Guus

    Thanks for trying

  531. jonas’

    you’re welcome

  532. jonas’

    Guus, FYI debug logs from my side https://paste.debian.net/hidden/fdf8e8df/

  533. Guus

    I noticed buffer sizing issues before, maybe that's what's going on here

  534. eevvoor has left

  535. dele2 has left

  536. Lance has left

  537. Neustradamus has joined

  538. Lance has joined

  539. pdurbin has joined

  540. valo has left

  541. pdurbin has left

  542. Lance has left

  543. waqas has left

  544. ziggys has joined

  545. ziggys has left

  546. Yagiza has left

  547. Lance has joined

  548. jonas’

    thinking about introducing a "critical" (= you need to understand this element, otherwise reply with feature-not-implemented) attribute in XMPP, it’s not that easy actually.

  549. LNJ has left

  550. jonas’

    for example, one can have content which is critical for a client to understand, but not for the servers (even possibly MUC servers, so the @to addressed entity) to understand, for example, a mandatory read receipt

  551. jcbrand has left

  552. jonas’

    and then, one could imagine a thing which would need to be understood by a smart archive (for example, reactions), too

  553. jonas’

    or stuff which needs to be only understood by forwarding servers (i.e. both users servers), like extended addressing for server-side carbon-copying or something

  554. waqas has joined

  555. Lance has left

  556. jcbrand has joined

  557. Zash

    You just need to invent a feature to advertise understanding of "critical" and mark it itself as critical `<feature var='critical' xmlns:critical='urn:xmpp:critical:sqrt(-1)' critical:critical='critical'/>`

  558. jonas’

    you could’ve just written urn:xmpp:critical:i ;P

  559. debacle has joined

  560. jcbrand has left

  561. arc has joined

  562. eevvoor has joined

  563. lskdjf has joined

  564. lskdjf has left

  565. lskdjf has joined

  566. lskdjf has left

  567. lskdjf has joined

  568. sezuan has joined

  569. lovetox has left

  570. lskdjf has left

  571. sezuan has left

  572. Ge0rG

    You forgot to make it ALL UPPERCASE

  573. ralphm

    Ge0rG, Kev, Seve is anyone in our community involved in MLS?

  574. jcbrand has joined

  575. Ge0rG

    I'm not, but I'd like to if I find the time

  576. jonas’

    ralphm, I think Dave participated in the earlier times on the mailing list

  577. Lance has joined

  578. ralphm

    I'm happy for the security mob to do their thing, but eventually we should probably have an XMPP proposal to use it.

  579. Ge0rG


  580. ralphm

    Unsure when would be a good time to get involved, whether XMPP has particular properties that need to be taken into account.

  581. pdurbin has joined

  582. murabito has left

  583. ralphm

    But I guess dwd might have a better idea on this.

  584. valo has joined

  585. murabito has joined

  586. pdurbin has left

  587. eevvoor has left

  588. karoshi has left

  589. valo has left

  590. valo has joined

  591. neshtaxmpp has left

  592. neshtaxmpp has joined

  593. Wojtek has joined

  594. Wojtek has left

  595. adityaborikar has left

  596. adityaborikar has joined

  597. Lance has left

  598. debacle has left

  599. adityaborikar has left

  600. adityaborikar has joined

  601. Wojtek has joined

  602. neshtaxmpp has left

  603. Wojtek has left

  604. wurstsalat has left

  605. andy has left

  606. Wojtek has joined

  607. patrick has left

  608. Mikaela has left

  609. Nekit has left

  610. Wojtek has left

  611. UsL has left

  612. UsL has joined